I agree that the mother may be speculating on what’s written between the lines in the report, but can you blame her since all IDF operations only brought a single hostage back alive?
If you look at each individual incident, you may be able to come up with some excuse that could seem very flimsy to some (like myself), but what about putting them all together? The big picture looks grim for Israel. Field executions, destroying infrastructure, starving the population… With a genocide case looming, I see why Israel sympathizers and Zionists would like to focus on the nitty gritty details of fake IDF reports (you don’t deem them fake of course), because it distracts from the extensively large tapestry of blood and ethnic cleansing that Israel been weaving for us to see day after day for the past 3 months on television, gore and all.
I can separate the right wing conservatives that are in Israel from the country and people of Israel. And because it’s a democracy, there’s a chance that in my lifetime the people there will throw these right wing pieces of shit perpetrating some of the war crimes you’ve described out of office or the military and into prison.
I can also see, and apparently I am the only one here, that it isn’t all of one thing or all of the other thing. There are some members of the IDF that have been radicalized by the intellectual rot of nationalism into being fine with some atrocities. That’s why there’s a video of an IDF tank mowing down a group of people with white flags that turned out to be hostages. One or even dozens of illegal acts in war does not make the war itself illegal.
No, you’re right, it is not the few bad apples in the IDF spoiling the bunch and making it an illegal war or a war crime…
It’s actually all the other things the IDF did that makes it a genocide and war crime. Like turning the water off, making aid slow and kafkaesque, putting aid workers in danger so Palestinians can die of starvation, and destroying every university building (I think all seven have been destroyed).
It’s not Tamar or Ariel who killed a whole family in a summary execution that are the problem… It’s the entire platoon. They are not a “few dozen”.
I often wonder what kind of denial you are in given your comments because the rest of us wake up to a “few dozen” war crimes every day with no end in sight.
A few dozen every day? Maybe if all you do is watch TikTok videos and if you believe everything you read.
The media makes it sounds like thousands of civilians have been bombed on refugee camps or on humanitarian routes. As of last week there had been less than 100 deaths in such a circumstances. That’s not the story that people are hearing, though.
I had a comment deleted as false information because I said 99.996% of Palestinians were still alive. Mod “corrected” me and said “it’s actually 1% of the population.” Notwithstanding, it is absolutely correct that 99.996% of Palestinians are still alive (actual Palestinians killed is 0.004%).
See, even one of our mods got tricked here. Perhaps you’ve been tricked just enough times with regard to Israel and Hamas that your sympathies are with the side that actually bombs their neighbor indiscriminately and that actually targets women and children on purpose?
If the putative aggressor is three months in, going on four, of committing genocide, and only 0.004% of the people they’re allegedly trying to genocide have been killed, I don’t think anyone can reasonably call it genocide. At this rate of civilian deaths, if the actual true goal is genocide, as you suggest, it will take Israel another 6,250 years. Hmm weird, they certainly have the capability of wiping out every structure in Gaza and the West Bank within a matter of hours. Doesn’t that make you think, hey maybe I’ve been tricked?
The Gaza Strip is a tiny little area over on the left. The whole of Gaza is the size of Vegas and Gaza City is similar in size and population to Newark, New Jersey.
The West Bank is over on the right (eastern Israel, on the western bank of the Jordan River).
Three out of Five Palestinians live in the west bank.
Hamas operates primarily out of Gaza City (Northern Gaza), but they also fight in the West Bank. There are tunnels in West Bank, but they are small and disconnected from one another, tunnels connecting handfuls of buildings, or just hidden underground rooms used for snuggling weapons and people. There’s been a handful of airstrikes on personnel and tunnels in the West Bank. The death tolls in the West Bank, wjere the majority of Palestinians reside, is less than 300.
The large majority of deaths have been in Gaza City. That’s why I find it credible that Israel really is striking the tunnels, and not just saying “oh there was a tunnel there” as a pretext to bomb civilians and civilian infrastructure.
In Gaza alone, 1% of the population is dead. If you include the West Bank, 0.004 0.4% of the population is dead. The claim is that Israel are bloodthirsty villains trying to rid the world of Palestinians. That claim doesn’t hold water in light of these facts.
The place with more Palestinians living in it has 1/100th of the deaths in than in the part of Palestine just includes the Gaza tunnels. I can ot reconcile this fact with claims of a Palestinian genocide. The strikes to me look very measured and proportionate.
So your math is wrong. The dividend should be 5,000,000, the total population of Palestinians, not 2,300,000 million, the total population of only the Gaza Strip.
Edit: My total for Palestinian deaths was not properly converted to percentage. It is 0.4% on 0.004%.
You see this is what everyone else is talking about.
So your math is wrong. The dividend should be 5,000,000, the total population of Palestinians, not 2,300,000 million, the total population of only the Gaza Strip.
Maybe you should check your math. You didn’t multiply by 100 to make the percentage I guess.
But more importantly, including the West bank is these stats is misleading. If you’re going to do that why not also include all the diaspora around the world? The war is in Gaza. The numbers that make sense are those pertaining to Gaza.
Shit you’re right. I’ve shared this math maybe five or six times and the first time I said “hey there’s a chance my math isn’t right it’s not my strongest skill so please correct me if I’m wrong” and nobody has tried to correct me.
Well, I stand corrected and feel like a dumbass, it’s 0.4%.
Well thanks! I appreciate you admitting your mistake.
Next up, do you really think the right denominator is the whole Palestinian population? Shouldn’t it just be the population of Gaza? And if not, why shouldn’t we also include all the Palestinian diaspora from all over the world?
I don’t watch Tiktok. My information is from respectable Journalists and human rights organization. Your information is from the IDF. Do you not recognize the issue here?
Most of my info on background is from public records of the State Department, White House, and CIA, as well as legal briefs and law reviews. I consider these primary sources on which I’ve formed my own opinions. I’m certainly not here regurgitating talking points. Happy to admit when I am wrong and learn from it, in this and any other aspect of life.
Sure, UN, too. I’ve read docs from HRW. I didn’t put NGOs on my list but certainly NGOs. Even think tanks sometimes are good for historical background, especially on histories or timelines or US relations with a particular foreign country. Wikipedia is a great aggregator for following a war, starting point for events or places that I’m unfamiliar with as I learn.
Hey, you seem very smart too and you’re asking intelligent questions. I suppose a younger me would have answered them much like you. October 7 significantly changed the calculus.
HRW seem to think Biden supporting Israel with weapons is also illegal given the war crimes and genociding Israel does right and left. When I read the reports from HRW or the UN who themselves have lost over 100 of their employees in violent deaths in Gaza, I can’t help but think the IDF use flimsy excuses to cover their crimes or deny them or say woopsie.
For example the Al-Israa University building they demolished recently? Israel is now saying it’s investigating why it’s doing that (I think that was on ToI yesterday), but the brilliant journalist Matt Lee from AP makes a good point in this exchange with the US State Department Spokespam: if the it was safe enough to plant demolition explosives which takes lots of time and work, why was it dangerous enough to blow up?
Unless of course the goal of Israel currently is destroy so much infrastructure in Gaza to make it unlibeable to the point that would make people die of famine or force them to leave, ethnic cleansing either way.
You said you read reports from US officials and IDF. What have they said about this university? And what would it look like if the IDF was wrong to demolish it but the US wanted to cover their ass?
I agree that the mother may be speculating on what’s written between the lines in the report, but can you blame her since all IDF operations only brought a single hostage back alive?
If you look at each individual incident, you may be able to come up with some excuse that could seem very flimsy to some (like myself), but what about putting them all together? The big picture looks grim for Israel. Field executions, destroying infrastructure, starving the population… With a genocide case looming, I see why Israel sympathizers and Zionists would like to focus on the nitty gritty details of fake IDF reports (you don’t deem them fake of course), because it distracts from the extensively large tapestry of blood and ethnic cleansing that Israel been weaving for us to see day after day for the past 3 months on television, gore and all.
I can separate the right wing conservatives that are in Israel from the country and people of Israel. And because it’s a democracy, there’s a chance that in my lifetime the people there will throw these right wing pieces of shit perpetrating some of the war crimes you’ve described out of office or the military and into prison.
I can also see, and apparently I am the only one here, that it isn’t all of one thing or all of the other thing. There are some members of the IDF that have been radicalized by the intellectual rot of nationalism into being fine with some atrocities. That’s why there’s a video of an IDF tank mowing down a group of people with white flags that turned out to be hostages. One or even dozens of illegal acts in war does not make the war itself illegal.
No, you’re right, it is not the few bad apples in the IDF spoiling the bunch and making it an illegal war or a war crime…
It’s actually all the other things the IDF did that makes it a genocide and war crime. Like turning the water off, making aid slow and kafkaesque, putting aid workers in danger so Palestinians can die of starvation, and destroying every university building (I think all seven have been destroyed).
It’s not Tamar or Ariel who killed a whole family in a summary execution that are the problem… It’s the entire platoon. They are not a “few dozen”.
I often wonder what kind of denial you are in given your comments because the rest of us wake up to a “few dozen” war crimes every day with no end in sight.
A few dozen every day? Maybe if all you do is watch TikTok videos and if you believe everything you read.
The media makes it sounds like thousands of civilians have been bombed on refugee camps or on humanitarian routes. As of last week there had been less than 100 deaths in such a circumstances. That’s not the story that people are hearing, though.
I had a comment deleted as false information because I said 99.996% of Palestinians were still alive. Mod “corrected” me and said “it’s actually 1% of the population.” Notwithstanding, it is absolutely correct that 99.996% of Palestinians are still alive (actual Palestinians killed is 0.004%).
See, even one of our mods got tricked here. Perhaps you’ve been tricked just enough times with regard to Israel and Hamas that your sympathies are with the side that actually bombs their neighbor indiscriminately and that actually targets women and children on purpose?
If the putative aggressor is three months in, going on four, of committing genocide, and only 0.004% of the people they’re allegedly trying to genocide have been killed, I don’t think anyone can reasonably call it genocide. At this rate of civilian deaths, if the actual true goal is genocide, as you suggest, it will take Israel another 6,250 years. Hmm weird, they certainly have the capability of wiping out every structure in Gaza and the West Bank within a matter of hours. Doesn’t that make you think, hey maybe I’ve been tricked?
Sorry I don’t understand this number at all. Can you explain your math?
(Over 23k killed ÷ 2.3 million in Gaza) × 100% = Over 1%, surely?
The Gaza Strip is a tiny little area over on the left. The whole of Gaza is the size of Vegas and Gaza City is similar in size and population to Newark, New Jersey.
The West Bank is over on the right (eastern Israel, on the western bank of the Jordan River).
Three out of Five Palestinians live in the west bank.
Hamas operates primarily out of Gaza City (Northern Gaza), but they also fight in the West Bank. There are tunnels in West Bank, but they are small and disconnected from one another, tunnels connecting handfuls of buildings, or just hidden underground rooms used for snuggling weapons and people. There’s been a handful of airstrikes on personnel and tunnels in the West Bank. The death tolls in the West Bank, wjere the majority of Palestinians reside, is less than 300.
The large majority of deaths have been in Gaza City. That’s why I find it credible that Israel really is striking the tunnels, and not just saying “oh there was a tunnel there” as a pretext to bomb civilians and civilian infrastructure.
In Gaza alone, 1% of the population is dead. If you include the West Bank,
0.0040.4% of the population is dead. The claim is that Israel are bloodthirsty villains trying to rid the world of Palestinians. That claim doesn’t hold water in light of these facts.The place with more Palestinians living in it has 1/100th of the deaths in than in the part of Palestine just includes the Gaza tunnels. I can ot reconcile this fact with claims of a Palestinian genocide. The strikes to me look very measured and proportionate.
So your math is wrong. The dividend should be 5,000,000, the total population of Palestinians, not 2,300,000 million, the total population of only the Gaza Strip.
Edit: My total for Palestinian deaths was not properly converted to percentage. It is 0.4% on 0.004%.
You see this is what everyone else is talking about.
Maybe you should check your math. You didn’t multiply by 100 to make the percentage I guess.
But more importantly, including the West bank is these stats is misleading. If you’re going to do that why not also include all the diaspora around the world? The war is in Gaza. The numbers that make sense are those pertaining to Gaza.
Shit you’re right. I’ve shared this math maybe five or six times and the first time I said “hey there’s a chance my math isn’t right it’s not my strongest skill so please correct me if I’m wrong” and nobody has tried to correct me.
Well, I stand corrected and feel like a dumbass, it’s 0.4%.
Well thanks! I appreciate you admitting your mistake.
Next up, do you really think the right denominator is the whole Palestinian population? Shouldn’t it just be the population of Gaza? And if not, why shouldn’t we also include all the Palestinian diaspora from all over the world?
I don’t watch Tiktok. My information is from respectable Journalists and human rights organization. Your information is from the IDF. Do you not recognize the issue here?
Most of my info on background is from public records of the State Department, White House, and CIA, as well as legal briefs and law reviews. I consider these primary sources on which I’ve formed my own opinions. I’m certainly not here regurgitating talking points. Happy to admit when I am wrong and learn from it, in this and any other aspect of life.
Wouldn’t it be wiser to diversify your sources? For example, why not B’Tselem? Why not HRW or the UN?
Sure, UN, too. I’ve read docs from HRW. I didn’t put NGOs on my list but certainly NGOs. Even think tanks sometimes are good for historical background, especially on histories or timelines or US relations with a particular foreign country. Wikipedia is a great aggregator for following a war, starting point for events or places that I’m unfamiliar with as I learn.
Hey, you seem very smart too and you’re asking intelligent questions. I suppose a younger me would have answered them much like you. October 7 significantly changed the calculus.
So when the UN says that Israel is starving Palestinians in Gaza as a war weapon , is that showing both intent and action towards genocide? 🤔
HRW seem to think Biden supporting Israel with weapons is also illegal given the war crimes and genociding Israel does right and left. When I read the reports from HRW or the UN who themselves have lost over 100 of their employees in violent deaths in Gaza, I can’t help but think the IDF use flimsy excuses to cover their crimes or deny them or say woopsie.
For example the Al-Israa University building they demolished recently? Israel is now saying it’s investigating why it’s doing that (I think that was on ToI yesterday), but the brilliant journalist Matt Lee from AP makes a good point in this exchange with the US State Department Spokespam: if the it was safe enough to plant demolition explosives which takes lots of time and work, why was it dangerous enough to blow up?
Unless of course the goal of Israel currently is destroy so much infrastructure in Gaza to make it unlibeable to the point that would make people die of famine or force them to leave, ethnic cleansing either way.
You said you read reports from US officials and IDF. What have they said about this university? And what would it look like if the IDF was wrong to demolish it but the US wanted to cover their ass?