It appears he is trying to pay his bill with a registered security. This can be a number of things but, basically, it’s a document showing ownership of some value of something. Stock in a company can be a security, investments in a market index, etc. They have legit value, they are transferable, but they have a fungible value, based on the value of whatever the security is in, at the time it is purchased/sold.
For some reason he seems to believe that because something has a legit, defined, value the company is legally obligated take it as a form of payment. This is completely untrue, of course. They don’t even have to take local currency if they don’t want to (ex- if you have a $300 bill, and you try to pay in pennies, they have a right to turn down the payment). The UCC 3 he mentions is a form to amend information on a lien.
SCs believe that the United States Corporation uses US citizens as security to take out international loans.
For that purpose, the government opens up a secret bank account in the name of every citizen at birth.
If you know the correct magical mumbo-jumbo language, you can release the money deposited in that account for yourself and use it to pay for things, since you aren’t a member of the corporation anymore.
JFC. There is financial, and political, illiteracy, then there is this. It’s like they worked on the illiteracy, made it something beyond that, and then honed it, super illiteracy, if you will. I mean, the government, in a very round about way, does secure loans on it’s people. However that is because the people create economic value. That value, and it’s historical stability, are some of the metrics used.
Maybe they heard about how corporations take out insurance on their employees, and have accounts that can pay-out on their death, smoked a bunch of meth and extrapolated this shit out of it?
More importantly, the scammers who came up with this shit figured out a way to promise their marks easy access to a secret stash of money, and all they have to do to claim it is buy a how-to guide for several hundred dollars in real cash.
The logic is great on this. “Give me your worthless dollars and I’ll give you this secret currency that is actually valuable.”
Why would anyone want USD when they claim it will be worthless soon? The exchange makes no sense for the seller if true. Same idea for the gold and silver grifters charging way over melt.
Yup anyone who is selling a book and/or classes to anything that isn’t being vetted by a third party with no interest in the subject is a scam. The self help section of a book store is basically the scam to borderline cult section.
It’s because they make these people, who have felt lost in this world we made their whole lives, have been given a beacon of hope that they’ve finally got it figured out, they’re finally getting the upper hand.
None of this shit is presented to them the way we see it; when they stumble upon the world of SC it’s much the same and Qanon shit- they’re special and they’re being welcomed into knowledge that can CHANGE things for them. “This is what they should have taught in school instead of that boring crap that I couldn’t pay attention to”.
And yea for lots of em that’s because they’re arrogant and thought they already knew it all; for others they simply got left behind. Sad either way.
This is what worries me - they have a few good points and correct arguements, but dear God are they just clueless and trying to avoid responsibility for themselves.
Thing with sovereignty - must be recognized and defendable… they aren’t.
Only debts to the government. They also only have to accept cash in person. For example. If you owe the IRS 5k and you go to a local Taxpayer Assistance Center, with 5k in coins, they have to accept it. However, if you are paying via mail, online, etc., they are allowed to restrict the payment types they will accept.
I believe the Government has to accept cash for any charges, but private companies have to accept cash for debts. Like if your car gets towed, the tow company must accept cash, even if it’s all pennies.
This is only true for certain states and certain businesses. For instance, if you are in Texas your example of towing is correct. In the state of Ohio the state law states that tow companies can only accept cash, certified checks, Discover, Mastercard, American Express, and Visa. However it does not dictate that they MUST accept all of those. The point of the clause is to remove personal checks from the system, since most tows are requested by a government body, and personal checks are a major vector for fraud.
However, in Texas, towing is one of like 3 different things I can find that require cash acceptance. All of these are mostly business generated at the request of the government.
Now, debt owed to private businesses, that gets rolled into some sort of government mediated mechanism, IE bankruptcy, do have to accept cash. That debt collection is generally either handled by the government, or a third party contractor. There are no blanket, federal level, laws that dictate businesses must accept cash. Now, there is a growing movement to make state laws forcing this. This is because cashless systems create an extra barrier for poor people, especially the homeless, minorities, and the elderly. Though this is in it’s infancy and it’s hard to tell how well it will be accepted.
It is, for every creditor they must accept US currency as payment for a debt. This only applies if you owe the money, such as a phone bill paid the month after service. It wouldn’t apply if this was a prepaid phone service, as there is no debt.
If a US debtor could refuse US currency, then they could force you to pay in some other currency (such as a scrip), which they might sell for whatever price they want trapping you in a debt cycle.
All US debts must be valued in USD, and accept US currency to pay down that debt, by law.
After reading both there’s not really a conflict. This commenter argues that they mist accept the US currency, USD, the other one argued that they are not force to accept it in physical coins/visa/etc, they have leverage in deciding in which medium you must transfer that said currency.
well the question is debt really. I know places can accept payment as they chose but for payment of debt is what I recollect of the law. I don’t recall that law for allowing the reciever to be picky about the form of the currency. Granted the debt payer has to get the payment in and if they just don’t have a physical presence for it you can’t just leave it on the floor and say debt paid. It is certainly a confusing issue but an important one as such requirements are part of why fiat currency is valueless. that along with the taxing body and just the theoretical value the country holds .
Where’s the “that type of payment “? What was it?
It appears he is trying to pay his bill with a registered security. This can be a number of things but, basically, it’s a document showing ownership of some value of something. Stock in a company can be a security, investments in a market index, etc. They have legit value, they are transferable, but they have a fungible value, based on the value of whatever the security is in, at the time it is purchased/sold.
For some reason he seems to believe that because something has a legit, defined, value the company is legally obligated take it as a form of payment. This is completely untrue, of course. They don’t even have to take local currency if they don’t want to (ex- if you have a $300 bill, and you try to pay in pennies, they have a right to turn down the payment). The UCC 3 he mentions is a form to amend information on a lien.
SCs believe that the United States Corporation uses US citizens as security to take out international loans.
For that purpose, the government opens up a secret bank account in the name of every citizen at birth.
If you know the correct magical mumbo-jumbo language, you can release the money deposited in that account for yourself and use it to pay for things, since you aren’t a member of the corporation anymore.
JFC. There is financial, and political, illiteracy, then there is this. It’s like they worked on the illiteracy, made it something beyond that, and then honed it, super illiteracy, if you will. I mean, the government, in a very round about way, does secure loans on it’s people. However that is because the people create economic value. That value, and it’s historical stability, are some of the metrics used.
Maybe they heard about how corporations take out insurance on their employees, and have accounts that can pay-out on their death, smoked a bunch of meth and extrapolated this shit out of it?
More importantly, the scammers who came up with this shit figured out a way to promise their marks easy access to a secret stash of money, and all they have to do to claim it is buy a how-to guide for several hundred dollars in real cash.
The logic is great on this. “Give me your worthless dollars and I’ll give you this secret currency that is actually valuable.”
Why would anyone want USD when they claim it will be worthless soon? The exchange makes no sense for the seller if true. Same idea for the gold and silver grifters charging way over melt.
Yup anyone who is selling a book and/or classes to anything that isn’t being vetted by a third party with no interest in the subject is a scam. The self help section of a book store is basically the scam to borderline cult section.
It’s because they make these people, who have felt lost in this world we made their whole lives, have been given a beacon of hope that they’ve finally got it figured out, they’re finally getting the upper hand.
None of this shit is presented to them the way we see it; when they stumble upon the world of SC it’s much the same and Qanon shit- they’re special and they’re being welcomed into knowledge that can CHANGE things for them. “This is what they should have taught in school instead of that boring crap that I couldn’t pay attention to”.
And yea for lots of em that’s because they’re arrogant and thought they already knew it all; for others they simply got left behind. Sad either way.
The ones that got left behind I feel for. The arrogant ones can shove their fake currency where the sun don’t shine.
It’s like the Matrix but late-stage capitalistic
Nice. Every batshit concept has a soupçon of truth.
This is what worries me - they have a few good points and correct arguements, but dear God are they just clueless and trying to avoid responsibility for themselves.
Thing with sovereignty - must be recognized and defendable… they aren’t.
So this is essentially the guy on Craigslist who gets offended that you don’t want to sell him your car for a broken jet ski and a Playstation 2?
kinda. more like the guy who wants to pay with treasury bonds, or something like that.
deleted by creator
wait. I thought there was a law requiring us currency to be accepted for debt payment.
Only debts to the government. They also only have to accept cash in person. For example. If you owe the IRS 5k and you go to a local Taxpayer Assistance Center, with 5k in coins, they have to accept it. However, if you are paying via mail, online, etc., they are allowed to restrict the payment types they will accept.
ah thanks. This would explain it and I was under a false understanding.
I believe the Government has to accept cash for any charges, but private companies have to accept cash for debts. Like if your car gets towed, the tow company must accept cash, even if it’s all pennies.
This is only true for certain states and certain businesses. For instance, if you are in Texas your example of towing is correct. In the state of Ohio the state law states that tow companies can only accept cash, certified checks, Discover, Mastercard, American Express, and Visa. However it does not dictate that they MUST accept all of those. The point of the clause is to remove personal checks from the system, since most tows are requested by a government body, and personal checks are a major vector for fraud. However, in Texas, towing is one of like 3 different things I can find that require cash acceptance. All of these are mostly business generated at the request of the government.
Now, debt owed to private businesses, that gets rolled into some sort of government mediated mechanism, IE bankruptcy, do have to accept cash. That debt collection is generally either handled by the government, or a third party contractor. There are no blanket, federal level, laws that dictate businesses must accept cash. Now, there is a growing movement to make state laws forcing this. This is because cashless systems create an extra barrier for poor people, especially the homeless, minorities, and the elderly. Though this is in it’s infancy and it’s hard to tell how well it will be accepted.
ah thanks. This would explain it and I was under a false understanding.
It is, for every creditor they must accept US currency as payment for a debt. This only applies if you owe the money, such as a phone bill paid the month after service. It wouldn’t apply if this was a prepaid phone service, as there is no debt.
If a US debtor could refuse US currency, then they could force you to pay in some other currency (such as a scrip), which they might sell for whatever price they want trapping you in a debt cycle.
All US debts must be valued in USD, and accept US currency to pay down that debt, by law.
ok that is what I thought. given the conflict between you and the other commentator I guess im just going to just have to look it up. eventually :)
After reading both there’s not really a conflict. This commenter argues that they mist accept the US currency, USD, the other one argued that they are not force to accept it in physical coins/visa/etc, they have leverage in deciding in which medium you must transfer that said currency.
well the question is debt really. I know places can accept payment as they chose but for payment of debt is what I recollect of the law. I don’t recall that law for allowing the reciever to be picky about the form of the currency. Granted the debt payer has to get the payment in and if they just don’t have a physical presence for it you can’t just leave it on the floor and say debt paid. It is certainly a confusing issue but an important one as such requirements are part of why fiat currency is valueless. that along with the taxing body and just the theoretical value the country holds .
Sure, I was just clarifying why both commenters weren’t in conflict.
ah yes. I see now.
Those are IOUs.