Your summary is pretty good. However, pointing out that Trump and Giulliani are liars who can’t handle evidence properly, doesn’t make the suspicious email disappear. Nor does it allow the FBI to claim Russian Propaganda.
A few answers and clarifications below:-
You brought Russia into it
No. I deliberately excluded Russia. What reason is there for you and the FBI to conclude any Russian involvement with the President’s son’s private email?
why would Hunter Biden drop off a laptop containing evidence of his dads corruption?
Drugs. Also it was only one email in a whole hard drive relating to Joe.
he felt that the information on the drives was sensitive enough to make several copies for himself before that?
Backing up drives is standard practice when repairing a PC.
Ultimately when WaPo gets it, the first thing they see is that it had been tampered with,
The FBI had the first copy and it was untampered. CBS experts also found no signs of tampering
Through all this, even though several other emails can be confirmed legitimate through cryptographic signatures and finding received copies of the emails, not one of the juicy ones can.
You and I have clearly different understandings of what’s “real”.
What’s real is this paragraph in both of the CBS articles you linked:
When the email became public in 2020, Gilliar told the Wall Street Journal that Joe Biden was not involved. And in one of the interviews FBI agents conducted during the investigation, another partner of Hunter Biden’s said the same. “I certainly never was thinking at any time that [then-Vice President Biden was] a part of anything we were doing,” businessman Rob Walker told agents, according to a transcript released by Congress.
Gillar, of course, being the author of the email in question.
The CBS article also says what you need to know right in the headline
Copy of what’s believed to be Hunter Biden’s laptop data turned over by repair shop to FBI showed no tampering,
The copy turned over to the FBI showed no tampering. Granted, even if the original drive was destroyed in the liquid damage (doubtful, since this blind hack from Delaware could extract data from it), the copy the FBI received showed no tampering.
No wonder the FBI found nothing damning. They got the copy that wasn’t tampered.
That same article says roughly what I quoted above from Gillan, plus demonstrates that there were multiple copies floating around that were tampered with.
More than likely this was intentionally done to spread misinformation and get right wing media to rile up the base.
I like this bit from one of the CBS articles, too:
Two of Hunter’s former business partners, including Tony Bobulinski, who received the email, have told CBS News that “10 held by H for the big guy?” is shorthand for 10% held by Hunter for his father.
two paragraphs later
Bobulinski had a falling out with Hunter Biden, and has been a critic of the president and his son. His appearance and interview on Fox News came on the heels of the initial reports in the New York Post about the laptop.
Fucking gold right there. I wish they would have talked about the other partner. But sure, this Bobulinski guy seems totally credible.
(For those keeping score, both the author of the email (Gillan) and at least one other partner (Walker) say Joe wasn’t involved. Bobulinsky and some other guy do).
I like your Judiciary link too. It’s poorly written and tough to follow, but it seems like Jim Jordan was getting a little butthurt that they wouldn’t disclose that the laptop was real. Note the carefully chosen words “the laptop is real”. Not the contents. Not the data, not the emails, “the laptop”.
And why should they? It was a nothingburger from start to end. With how rabid trumps fan base is, bringing the laptop back into the news cycle, even if nothing is found, would, through the lens of right-wing media, only perpetuate the idea that the FBI is corrupt. It’s a real “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. But the FBI already knew Trump was hostile towards them. They made the right choice.
Aside from that, you should really take an open letter and a press release from Jim Jordan with a grain of salt. The dude has got a vacuum seal around Trumps dick. Especially in the time between this letter and the run up for Speaker.
The copy turned over to the FBI showed no tampering.
So the email you are disputing was recorded, in sequence, among a whole load of other verified evidence that has no sign of tampering. And there are other copies verified by other recipients, two of whom understood the big guy to be Joe.
No wonder the FBI found nothing damning.
This has not been stated. The 10% email may not even be for illegal activity, just politically sensitive/damaging. The FBI running “Russian Propaganda” interference is likely more damning.
there were multiple copies floating around that were tampered with.
Agreed. Giuliani certainly altered his copy. Doesn’t affect the veracity of the big guy email.
More than likely this was intentionally done to spread misinformation and get right wing media to rile up the base.
Agreed. The main target of mud slinging was Hunter, who wasn’t a candidate.
But sure, this Bobulinski guy seems totally credible.
No-one in this deal can be trusted. One party’s involvement was designed to be hidden from the get go. More questions need to be asked and answered.
(For those keeping score, both the author of the email (Gillan) and at least one other partner (Walker) say Joe wasn’t involved. Bobulinsky and some other guy do).
So who is this big guy that is trusting his 10% into Hunter’s care? If not Joe.
But the FBI already knew Trump was hostile towards them. They made the right choice.
Holy fuck! Law enforcement don’t (shouldn’t) get choices. Supposedly impartial, especially at FBI level. They investigate and gather evidence for criminal prosecution.
Aside from that, you should really take an open letter and a press release from Jim Jordan with a grain of salt.
We can’t believe the conclusions he is trying to insinuate. However, the requested evidence could be interesting.
NY Post is an arm of Murdochs propaganda machine bro. Stop trying to trust it. It’s a rag.
This article is a shining example of how sleazy it is, since nowhere in it does it say that Joe is the big guy, and Gillar specifically avoids saying that, but the author of the article is clearly trying to twist his words to make whatever he said seem as bad as possible for Biden.
For all we know, “10% for the big guy” means they are tithing and the big guy is literally God. It makes just as much sense and fits Gillar responses just the same.
Right wing media does this shit all the time. Drawing their own conclusions and just barely telling you what to think. Molding responses to fit a narrative. Omitting parts of a story or focusing on non-issues and blowing them way out of proportion. Photoshopping pictures of Joe to make him look more like Palpatine (literally any image you find on right wing media can be reverse image searched to find something that looks more human just about anywhere else).
It is literally propaganda.
Why the fuck would Giuliani modify his copy (and then assumedly forward it off to friendly media groups)? Does that not perhaps strike you as the least bit disengenuous? Dude is (well, was) an actual lawyer. He knows that’s not kosher.
But you’re totally okay with the presidents personal lawyer altering documents to provide to media, as long as it makes his political opponents look bad. Thats nice.
Agreed. The main target of mud slinging was Hunter, who wasn’t a candidate.
This was the October surprise, dude. This is exactly what I started off saying — GOP can’t find enough dirty shit about a career politician so they start making up a story about his kid.
Holy fuck! Law enforcement don’t (shouldn’t) get choices. Supposedly impartial, especially at FBI level. They investigate and gather evidence for criminal prosecution.
You are clearly misinterpreting what happened to fit your agenda. They had two options, release information about an ongoing investigation, or…don’t. Generally speaking law enforcement agencies keep their mouths shut on ongoing investigations, since showing their hand provides an advantage to whoever they are investigating.
The FBI had absolutely nothing to gain by keeping their mouth shut. They really had nothing to share except the existence of a laptop (just that a laptop literally, physically exists). And they know how right wing media works. They had nothing except a broken MacBook and a copy of its hard drive. That sat on a shelf for 8 months before the FBI picked it up.
For that matter, what happened to the original? It’s never actually said anywhere, just that Hunter brought it in for data recovery from water damage.
They knew full well that just saying “a laptop physically exists”, which on its own really means nothing, would get twisted and contorted by right wing media as if it’s irrefutable proof of corruption.
So it’s not that they decided “what benefits Joe”, it’s more like “what benefits truth”.
Unfortunately, keeping your mouth shut around right wing media is what benefits truth.
In this particular case, months after the fact, Jim Jordan is bringing this back up again.
It’s as if they constantly have to bring the topic into the news to tell you “you know we never got to the bottom of this”. Of course you never got to the bottom of it, you kept on moving where the bottom is. There’s really nothing more to learn here.
This article is a shining example of how sleazy it is, since nowhere in it does it say that Joe is the big guy
In that instance Gillar is specifically discussing Joe and calls him the big guy.
Whether he calls lots of people “Big guy” or just Joe is a different matter.
For all we know, “10% for the big guy” means they are tithing and the big guy is literally God.
Ha hahah. I doubt even God trusts Hunter with his share. Why would he be in charge of it.
It makes just as much sense
No. No it doesn’t.
Why the fuck would Giuliani modify his copy (and then assumedly forward it off to friendly media groups)?
Because he’s a sneaky idiot. This doesn’t invalidate the emails that were sent.
But you’re totally okay with the presidents personal lawyer altering documents to provide to media, as long as it makes his political opponents look bad.
No. I make no defense of any Republicans or their actions.
GOP can’t find enough dirty shit about a career politician
Well, they found one 10% email. If that is explained (and the FBI bias) then it becomes a nothingburger.
so they start making up a story about his kid.
This is where we came in. The email wasn’t made up. The FBI misleading social media wasn’t made up. The lack of explanation for the big guy is not made up.
They had two options, release information about an ongoing investigation, or…don’t.
Except there was no ongoing Russian Propaganda investigation. Hunter’s laptop has nothing to do with Russia and they had access to it for 9 months.
The FBI had absolutely nothing to gain by keeping their mouth shut.
They could imply that the laptop was fake and the fault of the Russians.
They really had nothing to share except the existence of a laptop (just that a laptop literally, physically exists).
They could say there was no Russian involvement.
They had nothing except a broken MacBook and a copy of its hard drive. That sat on a shelf for 8 months before the FBI picked it up.
So why the Russian Propaganda warnings?
For that matter, what happened to the original?
I don’t really care. The 10% email is the only item relevant to Joe and copies of that exist independently of the laptop.
In this particular case, months after the fact, Jim Jordan is bringing this back up again.
If this was investigated 4 years ago then it wouldn’t have survived until this election season.
Of course you never got to the bottom of it, you kept on moving where the bottom is.
For Joe, the bottom is simple and hasn’t changed since day 1.
Who is the big guy that Hunter was being paid on behalf of?
How, exactly, should Joe Biden prove he wasn’t involved, in something he wasn’t involved in?
Thats why the onus is on the accusers to prove it. Thats why we have a justice system that works on the idea that one is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
And all they have is an email that refers to “the big guy”, and everyone baselessly assumes that it’s Joe because it fits their agenda. Maybe H is heroin and the big guy is their supplier. Maybe H is Hillary Clinton and the big guy is Bill. Maybe H is Halliburton and the big-guy is Dick Cheney. Maybe it refers to a portion of the project that is classified, and legally it cannot be revealed who “the big guy” is. Maybe she’s born with it. Maybe it’s Maybelline.
The point is, you’ve managed to take one cryptic sentence, sent by someone other than a Biden, completely out of context, and spun it as a conspiracy against a Biden that we are still arguing about 5 years later. Bravo.
And now, the only thing that would satisfy you is to prove a negative.
How, exactly, should Joe Biden prove he wasn’t involved, in something he wasn’t involved in?
By getting his son to explain who the big guy was and what he was supposed to do for 10% of the deal.
Thats why the onus is on the accusers to prove it. Thats why we have a justice system that works on the idea that one is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
This is the court of public opinion, not law. Joe will be guilty of corruption in many voters minds. Granted someone is not going to vote for Trump because they think Biden is corrupt, but it does eat away at trust in the Democrats.
And all they have is an email that refers to “the big guy”, and everyone baselessly assumes that it’s Joe because it fits their agenda.
Not baseless. But we’ve covered that.
Maybe H is heroin
Maybe H is Hillary Clinton
Maybe H is Halliburton
Maybe Gillar should say who H is (Hunter obviously), who the big guy is and what they did. That would let Joe off the hook. That’s the only solution to the speculation.
The point is, you’ve managed to take one cryptic sentence, sent by someone other than a Biden, completely out of context, and spun it as a conspiracy against a Biden that we are still arguing about 5 years later. Bravo.
The point is that it still hasn’t been addressed 5 years later, and the FBI mislead everyone into calling it Russian Propaganda.
And now, the only thing that would satisfy you is to prove a negative.
Nope. Just a reasonable explanation from the business group and a full FBI investigation.
Your summary is pretty good. However, pointing out that Trump and Giulliani are liars who can’t handle evidence properly, doesn’t make the suspicious email disappear. Nor does it allow the FBI to claim Russian Propaganda.
A few answers and clarifications below:-
No. I deliberately excluded Russia. What reason is there for you and the FBI to conclude any Russian involvement with the President’s son’s private email?
Drugs. Also it was only one email in a whole hard drive relating to Joe.
Backing up drives is standard practice when repairing a PC.
The FBI had the first copy and it was untampered. CBS experts also found no signs of tampering
Two of Hunter Biden’s former business partners who received the message told CBS News that a line in the email — “10 held by H for the big guy?” — was shorthand for 10% held by Hunter Biden for his father.
You did, if you doubt the following:-
“10 for the big guy” email is real.
FBI knew and mislead.
No connections to Russia.
You and I have clearly different understandings of what’s “real”.
What’s real is this paragraph in both of the CBS articles you linked:
Gillar, of course, being the author of the email in question.
The CBS article also says what you need to know right in the headline
The copy turned over to the FBI showed no tampering. Granted, even if the original drive was destroyed in the liquid damage (doubtful, since this blind hack from Delaware could extract data from it), the copy the FBI received showed no tampering.
No wonder the FBI found nothing damning. They got the copy that wasn’t tampered.
That same article says roughly what I quoted above from Gillan, plus demonstrates that there were multiple copies floating around that were tampered with.
More than likely this was intentionally done to spread misinformation and get right wing media to rile up the base.
I like this bit from one of the CBS articles, too:
Fucking gold right there. I wish they would have talked about the other partner. But sure, this Bobulinski guy seems totally credible.
(For those keeping score, both the author of the email (Gillan) and at least one other partner (Walker) say Joe wasn’t involved. Bobulinsky and some other guy do).
I like your Judiciary link too. It’s poorly written and tough to follow, but it seems like Jim Jordan was getting a little butthurt that they wouldn’t disclose that the laptop was real. Note the carefully chosen words “the laptop is real”. Not the contents. Not the data, not the emails, “the laptop”.
And why should they? It was a nothingburger from start to end. With how rabid trumps fan base is, bringing the laptop back into the news cycle, even if nothing is found, would, through the lens of right-wing media, only perpetuate the idea that the FBI is corrupt. It’s a real “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. But the FBI already knew Trump was hostile towards them. They made the right choice.
Aside from that, you should really take an open letter and a press release from Jim Jordan with a grain of salt. The dude has got a vacuum seal around Trumps dick. Especially in the time between this letter and the run up for Speaker.
Who didn’t reveal who “the big guy” actually was. Who refused further comment. Who later wrote when asked about Joe "If they lose, honestly, I don’t think that the Big Guy really cares about that because he’ll be too busy focusing on all the other s–t he is doing.”.
So the email you are disputing was recorded, in sequence, among a whole load of other verified evidence that has no sign of tampering. And there are other copies verified by other recipients, two of whom understood the big guy to be Joe.
This has not been stated. The 10% email may not even be for illegal activity, just politically sensitive/damaging. The FBI running “Russian Propaganda” interference is likely more damning.
Agreed. Giuliani certainly altered his copy. Doesn’t affect the veracity of the big guy email.
Agreed. The main target of mud slinging was Hunter, who wasn’t a candidate.
No-one in this deal can be trusted. One party’s involvement was designed to be hidden from the get go. More questions need to be asked and answered.
So who is this big guy that is trusting his 10% into Hunter’s care? If not Joe.
Holy fuck! Law enforcement don’t (shouldn’t) get choices. Supposedly impartial, especially at FBI level. They investigate and gather evidence for criminal prosecution.
We can’t believe the conclusions he is trying to insinuate. However, the requested evidence could be interesting.
NY Post is an arm of Murdochs propaganda machine bro. Stop trying to trust it. It’s a rag.
This article is a shining example of how sleazy it is, since nowhere in it does it say that Joe is the big guy, and Gillar specifically avoids saying that, but the author of the article is clearly trying to twist his words to make whatever he said seem as bad as possible for Biden.
For all we know, “10% for the big guy” means they are tithing and the big guy is literally God. It makes just as much sense and fits Gillar responses just the same.
Right wing media does this shit all the time. Drawing their own conclusions and just barely telling you what to think. Molding responses to fit a narrative. Omitting parts of a story or focusing on non-issues and blowing them way out of proportion. Photoshopping pictures of Joe to make him look more like Palpatine (literally any image you find on right wing media can be reverse image searched to find something that looks more human just about anywhere else).
It is literally propaganda.
Why the fuck would Giuliani modify his copy (and then assumedly forward it off to friendly media groups)? Does that not perhaps strike you as the least bit disengenuous? Dude is (well, was) an actual lawyer. He knows that’s not kosher.
But you’re totally okay with the presidents personal lawyer altering documents to provide to media, as long as it makes his political opponents look bad. Thats nice.
This was the October surprise, dude. This is exactly what I started off saying — GOP can’t find enough dirty shit about a career politician so they start making up a story about his kid.
You are clearly misinterpreting what happened to fit your agenda. They had two options, release information about an ongoing investigation, or…don’t. Generally speaking law enforcement agencies keep their mouths shut on ongoing investigations, since showing their hand provides an advantage to whoever they are investigating.
The FBI had absolutely nothing to gain by keeping their mouth shut. They really had nothing to share except the existence of a laptop (just that a laptop literally, physically exists). And they know how right wing media works. They had nothing except a broken MacBook and a copy of its hard drive. That sat on a shelf for 8 months before the FBI picked it up.
For that matter, what happened to the original? It’s never actually said anywhere, just that Hunter brought it in for data recovery from water damage.
They knew full well that just saying “a laptop physically exists”, which on its own really means nothing, would get twisted and contorted by right wing media as if it’s irrefutable proof of corruption.
So it’s not that they decided “what benefits Joe”, it’s more like “what benefits truth”.
Unfortunately, keeping your mouth shut around right wing media is what benefits truth.
In this particular case, months after the fact, Jim Jordan is bringing this back up again.
It’s as if they constantly have to bring the topic into the news to tell you “you know we never got to the bottom of this”. Of course you never got to the bottom of it, you kept on moving where the bottom is. There’s really nothing more to learn here.
In that instance Gillar is specifically discussing Joe and calls him the big guy.
Whether he calls lots of people “Big guy” or just Joe is a different matter.
Ha hahah. I doubt even God trusts Hunter with his share. Why would he be in charge of it.
No. No it doesn’t.
Because he’s a sneaky idiot. This doesn’t invalidate the emails that were sent.
No. I make no defense of any Republicans or their actions.
Well, they found one 10% email. If that is explained (and the FBI bias) then it becomes a nothingburger.
This is where we came in. The email wasn’t made up. The FBI misleading social media wasn’t made up. The lack of explanation for the big guy is not made up.
Except there was no ongoing Russian Propaganda investigation. Hunter’s laptop has nothing to do with Russia and they had access to it for 9 months.
They could imply that the laptop was fake and the fault of the Russians.
They could say there was no Russian involvement.
So why the Russian Propaganda warnings?
I don’t really care. The 10% email is the only item relevant to Joe and copies of that exist independently of the laptop.
If this was investigated 4 years ago then it wouldn’t have survived until this election season.
For Joe, the bottom is simple and hasn’t changed since day 1.
Who is the big guy that Hunter was being paid on behalf of?
What was the big guy being paid 10% for?
The voters are still awaiting an explanation.
You just don’t get it, do you?
How, exactly, should Joe Biden prove he wasn’t involved, in something he wasn’t involved in?
Thats why the onus is on the accusers to prove it. Thats why we have a justice system that works on the idea that one is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
And all they have is an email that refers to “the big guy”, and everyone baselessly assumes that it’s Joe because it fits their agenda. Maybe H is heroin and the big guy is their supplier. Maybe H is Hillary Clinton and the big guy is Bill. Maybe H is Halliburton and the big-guy is Dick Cheney. Maybe it refers to a portion of the project that is classified, and legally it cannot be revealed who “the big guy” is. Maybe she’s born with it. Maybe it’s Maybelline.
The point is, you’ve managed to take one cryptic sentence, sent by someone other than a Biden, completely out of context, and spun it as a conspiracy against a Biden that we are still arguing about 5 years later. Bravo.
And now, the only thing that would satisfy you is to prove a negative.
By getting his son to explain who the big guy was and what he was supposed to do for 10% of the deal.
This is the court of public opinion, not law. Joe will be guilty of corruption in many voters minds. Granted someone is not going to vote for Trump because they think Biden is corrupt, but it does eat away at trust in the Democrats.
Not baseless. But we’ve covered that.
Maybe Gillar should say who H is (Hunter obviously), who the big guy is and what they did. That would let Joe off the hook. That’s the only solution to the speculation.
The point is that it still hasn’t been addressed 5 years later, and the FBI mislead everyone into calling it Russian Propaganda.
Nope. Just a reasonable explanation from the business group and a full FBI investigation.