I seriously cannot have any degree of nuanced conversation here.
Like I get it, we all know capitalism is bad, but it feels like every time I or anyone go towards discussing the steps that need to be taken to address current looming problems in the short term, someone has to jump in and shut it down with "capitalism bad >:[ " and tear down any idea presented because its not complete and total destruction of the current economic model.
The result just feels like an echo chamber where no actual solutions get presented other than someone posting whole ass dissertations on their 33-step (where 30/33 steps are about as vague as “we’ll just handle it”) plan to fully convert the world to an anarchist commune.
Edit: I still vastly prefer Lemmy and the fediverse and a whole, my complaint here is that many of you are TOO INTENSE. You blow up small scale discussion.
That’s not what I meant. I meant that there’s many different types of societies and capitalism is just one of them. It’s perfectly possible that we could’ve had something other than capitalism (if only) and we still would’ve dug oil out of the ground and burned it to cause climate change. Capitalism is bad and causes climate change, but I’m sure many other types of societies (maybe not all) would also do it.
Historic Revisionism is just apologia with extra steps. As if you can’t engage in direct whataboutism, so you have to invent a fictional whataboutism.
Facts of the matter is that Capitalism did directly lead to climate apocalypse. We knew the effects of burning fossil fuels since the 19th century, but all steps to prevent this scenario were thwarted by, you guessed it, capitalists and rich directly funding lobbyists and misinformation campaigns.
I’m not defending capitalism or anything of the sort. I’m just saying that changing society is complicated and it will take a long time. If I could flip a switch and we had a better world, that’d be great, but unfortunately reality is not that easy.
I really think we agree on capitalism (yes, it’s bad) and climate change (yes, fueled by capitalism and also very bad), so there’s no need to accuse me of anything. That made me quite uncomfortable and that makes me quite sad and makes me empathize with OPs complaint. It’s mostly about how it’s said and the absolute-ness of the terms. Hope you have a nice day
Nobody said it was simple to change society. What is simple is recognizing that we need to get rid of Capitalism.
The problem with the op’s “discussing problems short term” is that what they mean is “let’s waste time trying to reform Capitalism yet again and hope it to be turns out differently this time unlike the 1000 times before it”
You can do both, you know? This all or nothing is exactly what is turning people off. Mostly because those in your camp are mostly doing…nothing but posting the same comment. Either give us a roadmap to action or shut. The. Fuck. Up.
No you can t both reform and dismantle Capitalism at the same time
No one is talking about reforming capitalism. There are, however, problems that need immediate attention. One action does not negate the other. Unless you’re starting the revolution tomorrow, there are people that need to put food on the table. Happy to talk about the revolution when we get there. In the meantime, let’s help those we can.
I never said not to take direct action to help others. Not sure what you’re arguing against.
You directly accused OP of wanting to reform capitalism. I don’t even know what your point is any more because any time someone presses you pivot to a new argument.