My family converted a residential structure to commercial. We had to add fire protection, with sprinklers and additional exit doors. Fire protection requirements are significantly more stringent in commercial structures than residential. This wasn’t due to fire code.
Zoning allows it to operate as a church, where a lot more than a dozen people will be present. Zoning considered it safe enough to offer such services to the public.
He temporarily changed his operating hours from Sunday mornings to 24/7 for the duration of an emergency. There is no significantly greater risk from fire to these occupants than to the church’s regular congregants.
No, it might have very well met residential zoning requirements, even though it was not actually zoned residential. If it did not meet requirements, the most likely reason would be a lack of shower/bathtub, or a lack of closets or windows in spaces designated as “bedrooms”.
If he were offering housing under normal conditions, yes, there would be a problem. But he’s not. He’s offering shelter and respite - church services - at a church on an emergency basis.
It’s likely zoned commercial. It looks like it operates out of a retail storefront. Whatever it is zoned, the fact is that the city has no problem with typical church services: many members of the public congregating within the building.
They only had a problem when a handful of people stayed the night on an emergency basis.
Anyway, I’m getting hit for this one, but my intention was to defend that the city wasn’t just being sick, anti homeless villains. There were warnings, etc. The building next door has people who stay overnight (it’s a halfway house), so this couple COULD have done some paperwork, petitions, or upgrades, but instead chose to hire extreme right wing lawyers to make a media circus
You’re right, you’re going to get hit for that one.
If the city were arguing that the building itself was not safe for occupancy, you’d have a point. If they were trying to shut down the entire facility, OK. But they weren’t. The problems didn’t come up until they opened their doors 24/7.
Deregulate everything then I guess if a person wants to do something on a whim. Fuck you, safety professionals, I know better than you.
The charges were dropped because the church caved to the city requirements.
The church agreed to stop housing people until they get the correct permits, which they could have done to begin with. Permits exist so that a professional can inspect and deem something correctly equipped. The church made all of the necessary fixes to the building that were required to make it safe, which again they could have done before. I’d wager that the community or city itself might have tossed money their way to get it done faster had they tried instead of pushing their anti government rhetoric.
They hired a political action cash grab hack “lawyer group” that made up lies and got the media to attack the city. For example, the building next door isn’t a come and go homeless shelter that’s overwhelmed. It’s a halfway house with an interview process and a limited number of people live there longer term. And no, they didn’t quickly react to open their doors because it was freezing out and they needed to save lives. They’ve been doing this, and had opportunities to fix the problem. They chose to ignore codes.
I’m not trying to be insensitive to homeless. They deserve shelter without strings attached (fuck the “you can come in, but cold turkey your addiction!” bullshit). And even though I hate these blue lives matter assholes running the church, they seemed to have good intentions with this situation (but who knows, I don’t trust extremists).
But this was an easily rectifiable situation that they decided to go “muh constitution” instead of working with the city.
Thanks for digging into this a little further. It seems like small town news stories that get national attention don’t always paint a full picture, particularly when there’s an obvious moral high ground and an obvious victim or villain. I had several questions, because the story wasn’t adding up.
What sort of monster would object to sheltering homeless in a cold snap? The entire city government, including the fire department?
There’s an established shelter next door. Why did no one object to that? \
Since when did small towns in northwest Ohio start persecuting churches for no apparent reason? (for anyone out of the US, this population tends to be deep red GOP, very devout churchgoers, etc.)
This isn’t the first time there has been a cold spell. It happens at least once a year in January or February. Do the homeless in this tiny town just freeze to death every year?
There’s clearly a lot more to the story, but with national coverage like this I’d guess they were able to take in enough donations to cover basic repairs to the property.
I don’t see it as government refusing to allow shelter in a cold snap or persecuting the church. They didn’t go kick everyone out. The city gave notices that in order to do so, the building must be up to code. I read it as they supported the venture, but wanted the safety in place just like anywhere else, which the church ignored more than once.
Pre-national attention they could have done this. Pre “cold snap” they could have done this. The couple (a husband and wife run the church) did a ton of investing in this building, installing showers and rooms, etc. They just ignored the safety pieces that they decided weren’t important.
Next door is less a shelter than halfway house. It has around a dozen people at any given time who live there long term and who are screened and only allowed to stay if they promise to praise the Lord and volunteer at a church (this is not hyperbole). They do not take in people during a cold snap.
I’m not sure about the general homeless situation in Ohio. Most states open winter shelters during cold snaps, which I’m sure Ohio did, but tons of them can require no needles, drug use, etc so the people just don’t go. I don’t know if that’s the case here.
However, when I was looking into that halfway house, it seems tons of people used to wait around a nearby park as they waiting for their appointments, and could wait several days hoping for a spot. This seemed to be at least a portion of the church population
The basics of zoning come down to county or city, but this building happened to be zoned commercial (it’s attached to a taco restaurant) but surrounded by various support services buildings. There’s a veterans place along the same alley road.
But zoning determines the safety expectations of a building, as well as several other things (noise allowances, vehicles, etc).
Yes there is technically church zoning for tax purposes. I guess I misspoke saying “it’s not even a church”. These two used to run a church service from their home, but then they bought that commercial space, as many churches do in rural places. My point was this isn’t what your brain imagines when you say church, it’s a warehouse space that was converted. So definitely not structured for residential safety, which is different than commercial
Fuck that noise.
My family converted a residential structure to commercial. We had to add fire protection, with sprinklers and additional exit doors. Fire protection requirements are significantly more stringent in commercial structures than residential. This wasn’t due to fire code.
Zoning allows it to operate as a church, where a lot more than a dozen people will be present. Zoning considered it safe enough to offer such services to the public.
He temporarily changed his operating hours from Sunday mornings to 24/7 for the duration of an emergency. There is no significantly greater risk from fire to these occupants than to the church’s regular congregants.
No, it might have very well met residential zoning requirements, even though it was not actually zoned residential. If it did not meet requirements, the most likely reason would be a lack of shower/bathtub, or a lack of closets or windows in spaces designated as “bedrooms”.
If he were offering housing under normal conditions, yes, there would be a problem. But he’s not. He’s offering shelter and respite - church services - at a church on an emergency basis.
Go try to find Dad’s Place on Google maps. You’ll see it’s not even a church.
Church doesn’t mean the building. It means how the organization is registered federally for tax purposes. It could be in a trailer.
When we’re talking about residential zoning, we’re talking about the building
It’s likely zoned commercial. It looks like it operates out of a retail storefront. Whatever it is zoned, the fact is that the city has no problem with typical church services: many members of the public congregating within the building.
They only had a problem when a handful of people stayed the night on an emergency basis.
It has alley access behind the storefront haha.
Anyway, I’m getting hit for this one, but my intention was to defend that the city wasn’t just being sick, anti homeless villains. There were warnings, etc. The building next door has people who stay overnight (it’s a halfway house), so this couple COULD have done some paperwork, petitions, or upgrades, but instead chose to hire extreme right wing lawyers to make a media circus
You’re right, you’re going to get hit for that one.
If the city were arguing that the building itself was not safe for occupancy, you’d have a point. If they were trying to shut down the entire facility, OK. But they weren’t. The problems didn’t come up until they opened their doors 24/7.
Deregulate everything then I guess if a person wants to do something on a whim. Fuck you, safety professionals, I know better than you.
The charges were dropped because the church caved to the city requirements.
The church agreed to stop housing people until they get the correct permits, which they could have done to begin with. Permits exist so that a professional can inspect and deem something correctly equipped. The church made all of the necessary fixes to the building that were required to make it safe, which again they could have done before. I’d wager that the community or city itself might have tossed money their way to get it done faster had they tried instead of pushing their anti government rhetoric.
They hired a political action cash grab hack “lawyer group” that made up lies and got the media to attack the city. For example, the building next door isn’t a come and go homeless shelter that’s overwhelmed. It’s a halfway house with an interview process and a limited number of people live there longer term. And no, they didn’t quickly react to open their doors because it was freezing out and they needed to save lives. They’ve been doing this, and had opportunities to fix the problem. They chose to ignore codes.
I’m not trying to be insensitive to homeless. They deserve shelter without strings attached (fuck the “you can come in, but cold turkey your addiction!” bullshit). And even though I hate these blue lives matter assholes running the church, they seemed to have good intentions with this situation (but who knows, I don’t trust extremists).
But this was an easily rectifiable situation that they decided to go “muh constitution” instead of working with the city.
Thanks for digging into this a little further. It seems like small town news stories that get national attention don’t always paint a full picture, particularly when there’s an obvious moral high ground and an obvious victim or villain. I had several questions, because the story wasn’t adding up.
What sort of monster would object to sheltering homeless in a cold snap? The entire city government, including the fire department?
There’s an established shelter next door. Why did no one object to that? \
Since when did small towns in northwest Ohio start persecuting churches for no apparent reason? (for anyone out of the US, this population tends to be deep red GOP, very devout churchgoers, etc.)
This isn’t the first time there has been a cold spell. It happens at least once a year in January or February. Do the homeless in this tiny town just freeze to death every year?
There’s clearly a lot more to the story, but with national coverage like this I’d guess they were able to take in enough donations to cover basic repairs to the property.
I don’t see it as government refusing to allow shelter in a cold snap or persecuting the church. They didn’t go kick everyone out. The city gave notices that in order to do so, the building must be up to code. I read it as they supported the venture, but wanted the safety in place just like anywhere else, which the church ignored more than once.
Pre-national attention they could have done this. Pre “cold snap” they could have done this. The couple (a husband and wife run the church) did a ton of investing in this building, installing showers and rooms, etc. They just ignored the safety pieces that they decided weren’t important.
Next door is less a shelter than halfway house. It has around a dozen people at any given time who live there long term and who are screened and only allowed to stay if they promise to praise the Lord and volunteer at a church (this is not hyperbole). They do not take in people during a cold snap.
I’m not sure about the general homeless situation in Ohio. Most states open winter shelters during cold snaps, which I’m sure Ohio did, but tons of them can require no needles, drug use, etc so the people just don’t go. I don’t know if that’s the case here.
However, when I was looking into that halfway house, it seems tons of people used to wait around a nearby park as they waiting for their appointments, and could wait several days hoping for a spot. This seemed to be at least a portion of the church population
So does this city have specific church zoning or something? It’s not clear what your point is or what specifically makes a building "a church. "
The basics of zoning come down to county or city, but this building happened to be zoned commercial (it’s attached to a taco restaurant) but surrounded by various support services buildings. There’s a veterans place along the same alley road.
But zoning determines the safety expectations of a building, as well as several other things (noise allowances, vehicles, etc).
Yes there is technically church zoning for tax purposes. I guess I misspoke saying “it’s not even a church”. These two used to run a church service from their home, but then they bought that commercial space, as many churches do in rural places. My point was this isn’t what your brain imagines when you say church, it’s a warehouse space that was converted. So definitely not structured for residential safety, which is different than commercial