There is a long rich tradition of underage children dying in meat processing plants. While this is absolutely tragic, anyone who has looked into this can tell you it’s absolutely nothing new.
But, people want meat. So they look away, try not to think about it and nothing changes. Something to consider over your next cheeseburger.
Two of those articles you linked are a 2 and 4 year old that were on the farm, not really the same thing as the 27 amputation per month of actual workers. I mean step back and look at the what aboutism you are doing. Of course people are injured in produce, but that doesn’t change the fact that working in a meat packing plant is one of the most dangerous professions for humans.
Look, I’m not even here “as a vegan”, just as someone who has recently read The Jungle and is horrorifed to see the same problems from a century ago still present today. I’m not talking about animal rights, I’m talking about human worker rights in an industry where those people are constantly injured in staggering numbers.
I don’t read usernames and didn’t read yours until you mentioned it, and before that I knew you were vegan because you were using strawman in conjunction with a false dilemma and faulty generalization fallacies in order to push a ‘meat bad’ argument.
The most common argumentative fallacies used by vegans, peta, and trolls.
Underage workers dying is a… false dilemma? How is that possibly something not worth addressing?
I feel like some of you are having an emotional response from even the mildest of critism at the industry that you have to deny there is even a problem with dead children that shouldn’t have been hired in the first place. Which if you go reread my original comment, is what I originally pointed out. You are so defensive of the product that you are mad at me for even acknowledging this long standing issue.
As I said before, I’m fresh off reading The Jungle. My intent was to talk about worker rights instead of animal rights. So it seems right to leave this all with exactly that.
Jurgis recollected how, when he had first come to Packingtown, he had stood and watched the hog-killing, and thought how cruel and savage it was, and come away congratulating himself that he was not a hog; now his new acquaintance showed him that a hog was just what he had been-one of the packers’ hogs. What they wanted from a hog was all the profits that could be got out of him; and that was what they wanted from the workingman, and also that was what they wanted from the public. What the hog thought of it, and what he suffered, were not considered; and no more was it with labor, and no more with the purchaser of meat. That was true everywhere in the world, but it was especially true in Packingtown; there seemed to be something about the work of slaughtering that tended to ruthlessness and ferocity-it was literally the fact that in the methods of the packers a hundred human lives did not balance a penny of profit.
Blaming the meat industry for underage workers dying is a false equivalency and false dilemma. You are a fool* to equivocate these issues.
Meat isn’t the problem, incompetent politicians and garbage employers are the problem but you’re pretending the meat industry is the only industry engaging in child labour practices.
I bet you eat chocolate as well, and spoiler alert, child labour AND slave labour is involved in ALL chocolate acquisition, not to mention avocado and large scale vegetable farming uses child labour daily, but I don’t hear you bitching about that, I hear you blaming “meat” and attempting to guilt anyone who consumes meat into believing they inherently support child labour when they buy it.
Meanwhile you’re using an apple or android phone or a computer of any kind to communicate, meaning you have supported child and slave labour which acquired the raw materials to create the device you are using to bitch about this topic and misdirect people into believing your extremely perverted view of the world.
The sheer incompetence of your presentation here is dripping in irony and is denoting an unparalleled lack of education or an unbelievable level of intellectual dishonesty.
Edit: *removed an overly aggressive insult to prevent mods from being salty.
Edit: You added more. Look, we can do whataboutism for Chocolate and Tech, but that doesn’t change anything for this issue.
child labour AND slave labour is involved in ALL chocolate acquisition, not to mention avocado and large scale vegetable farming uses child labour daily, but I don’t hear you bitching about that
Well, I think comparing toddler accidents on a farm to century long systemic hiring of underage workers is bad faith but I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Still not entirely sure what I said that made you mad, concern for worker safety feels pretty universal. But it doesn’t seem you want to actually talk about the issue. So whatever. You have a good one.
There’s no point in conversing with these people, they accuse you of bad faith arguments from WORKING in the industry and rebute with arguments from VISITING the industry.
There is a long rich tradition of underage children dying in meat processing plants.
Yeah, we need better child labor laws and meat processing plant regulations, and those keep being overturned.
While the easy concept of “what if no meat industry” is easy to imagine, and I am for it, it’s not realistic and would simply move the industry to a 3rd world country and transfer through there. Why don’t vegans ever consider a 90% approach: if you get people to consume something that is 90% not meat, that’s the equivalent getting 90% of the group vegetarian. Then it’s an easier sell for vegetarianism, and as we develop lab meats, less must replaced.
Also, jw, would you be willing to eat human meat if they consented before hand and were disease free. I have a 93% yes rate, and I usually ask friends of friends when I meet them.
It would still require animals that have been genetically engineered to produce as much mass as quickly as possible to exist. Less suffering is good, but the real goal is to end this cruel and unnecessary system.
And it’s a noble goal, but it’s also one that many (not by any means all) think could easily happen overnight as if adopting a vegan lifestyle were as easy and unproblematic as it gets. Humanity has been eating meat as a significant portion of our diet since long before homo sapiens evolved. Getting people to suddenly stop en masse is just not going to happen. You’re fighting thousands of years of culture and genetics.
Weaning people off of meat is far more likely to work. Yes, it means more animal suffering in the mean time. But the fewer people you can convince to eat less meat, the more animals will be slaughtered.
Personally im pretty far. I eat far less meat than i used to growing up. I no longer eat veal, nor is meat the staple of my each and every meal. There are many many dishes i now make that do not feature meat at all. My meat intake is probably less than 50% of what it once was. For my SO, the change is less dramatic, but also noticeable.
For me, i noticed that simply the conscious effort to decrease how much meat i consume was an easy effort to expend, and it soon turned into a game id be playing with myself, trying to see where i can limit or cut out animal byproducts.
It is not about the meat, it is about the safety regulations that should have been in place.
Capitalism will exploit unless there are reasons not do so.
If the monetary risk is high enough, such as a % of total revenue in fines which should be more than the profit made, there is less of an inclination to perform such practices.
Or death for the whole directive board, you know.
There is a long rich tradition of underage children dying in meat processing plants. While this is absolutely tragic, anyone who has looked into this can tell you it’s absolutely nothing new.
But, people want meat. So they look away, try not to think about it and nothing changes. Something to consider over your next cheeseburger.
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Two of those articles you linked are a 2 and 4 year old that were on the farm, not really the same thing as the 27 amputation per month of actual workers. I mean step back and look at the what aboutism you are doing. Of course people are injured in produce, but that doesn’t change the fact that working in a meat packing plant is one of the most dangerous professions for humans.
Look, I’m not even here “as a vegan”, just as someone who has recently read The Jungle and is horrorifed to see the same problems from a century ago still present today. I’m not talking about animal rights, I’m talking about human worker rights in an industry where those people are constantly injured in staggering numbers.
deleted by creator
The only reason you know I’m vegan is from my username, but why would that fact somehow disqualify me from caring about workers being injured?
Idk. Sorta seems like you just wanna insult me but not actually contribute anything meaningful.
I don’t read usernames and didn’t read yours until you mentioned it, and before that I knew you were vegan because you were using strawman in conjunction with a false dilemma and faulty generalization fallacies in order to push a ‘meat bad’ argument.
The most common argumentative fallacies used by vegans, peta, and trolls.
Underage workers dying is a… false dilemma? How is that possibly something not worth addressing?
I feel like some of you are having an emotional response from even the mildest of critism at the industry that you have to deny there is even a problem with dead children that shouldn’t have been hired in the first place. Which if you go reread my original comment, is what I originally pointed out. You are so defensive of the product that you are mad at me for even acknowledging this long standing issue.
As I said before, I’m fresh off reading The Jungle. My intent was to talk about worker rights instead of animal rights. So it seems right to leave this all with exactly that.
Published over a century ago and still relevant.
Blaming the meat industry for underage workers dying is a false equivalency and false dilemma. You are a fool* to equivocate these issues.
Meat isn’t the problem, incompetent politicians and garbage employers are the problem but you’re pretending the meat industry is the only industry engaging in child labour practices.
I bet you eat chocolate as well, and spoiler alert, child labour AND slave labour is involved in ALL chocolate acquisition, not to mention avocado and large scale vegetable farming uses child labour daily, but I don’t hear you bitching about that, I hear you blaming “meat” and attempting to guilt anyone who consumes meat into believing they inherently support child labour when they buy it.
Meanwhile you’re using an apple or android phone or a computer of any kind to communicate, meaning you have supported child and slave labour which acquired the raw materials to create the device you are using to bitch about this topic and misdirect people into believing your extremely perverted view of the world.
The sheer incompetence of your presentation here is dripping in irony and is denoting an unparalleled lack of education or an unbelievable level of intellectual dishonesty.
Edit: *removed an overly aggressive insult to prevent mods from being salty.
I’m honestly amazed you can say that in this exact thread. There is a well known link between exactly those two according to the DOL. But whatever. It’s easy to just ignore it and insult me instead.
Edit: You added more. Look, we can do whataboutism for Chocolate and Tech, but that doesn’t change anything for this issue.
The thread is literally about the meat industry.
deleted by creator
Well, I think comparing toddler accidents on a farm to century long systemic hiring of underage workers is bad faith but I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Still not entirely sure what I said that made you mad, concern for worker safety feels pretty universal. But it doesn’t seem you want to actually talk about the issue. So whatever. You have a good one.
There’s no point in conversing with these people, they accuse you of bad faith arguments from WORKING in the industry and rebute with arguments from VISITING the industry.
Smooth brains be smoothing
deleted by creator
Yeah, we need better child labor laws and meat processing plant regulations, and those keep being overturned.
While the easy concept of “what if no meat industry” is easy to imagine, and I am for it, it’s not realistic and would simply move the industry to a 3rd world country and transfer through there. Why don’t vegans ever consider a 90% approach: if you get people to consume something that is 90% not meat, that’s the equivalent getting 90% of the group vegetarian. Then it’s an easier sell for vegetarianism, and as we develop lab meats, less must replaced.
Also, jw, would you be willing to eat human meat if they consented before hand and were disease free. I have a 93% yes rate, and I usually ask friends of friends when I meet them.
It would still require animals that have been genetically engineered to produce as much mass as quickly as possible to exist. Less suffering is good, but the real goal is to end this cruel and unnecessary system.
And it’s a noble goal, but it’s also one that many (not by any means all) think could easily happen overnight as if adopting a vegan lifestyle were as easy and unproblematic as it gets. Humanity has been eating meat as a significant portion of our diet since long before homo sapiens evolved. Getting people to suddenly stop en masse is just not going to happen. You’re fighting thousands of years of culture and genetics.
Weaning people off of meat is far more likely to work. Yes, it means more animal suffering in the mean time. But the fewer people you can convince to eat less meat, the more animals will be slaughtered.
How far along are you? I wish you the best on your journey.
Personally im pretty far. I eat far less meat than i used to growing up. I no longer eat veal, nor is meat the staple of my each and every meal. There are many many dishes i now make that do not feature meat at all. My meat intake is probably less than 50% of what it once was. For my SO, the change is less dramatic, but also noticeable.
For me, i noticed that simply the conscious effort to decrease how much meat i consume was an easy effort to expend, and it soon turned into a game id be playing with myself, trying to see where i can limit or cut out animal byproducts.
I don’t eat meat, but I do have dairy and eggs and shellfish. It’s as good as I can do for now.
It is not about the meat, it is about the safety regulations that should have been in place.
Capitalism will exploit unless there are reasons not do so. If the monetary risk is high enough, such as a % of total revenue in fines which should be more than the profit made, there is less of an inclination to perform such practices. Or death for the whole directive board, you know.