Florida deputy Jesse Hernandez screamed “shots fired,” and frantically fired his gun after an acorn fell onto the roof of his squad car, making him jump.
If US police is this incompetent, the only real solution is to take their guns away. It works in the UK.
And yes, there are more guns in general in the US, but that means that the police needs to be BETTER at deescalation than in the UK, not worse.
(Also: Obviously there are exceptions for specialized units in the UK, and the same would have to happen in the US, but your standard run-of-the-mill cop really doesn’t need more than pepper-spray and a stick.)
How about we also give them actual training? You know, basic 4 year training like in Europe, to become basic police officer, additional training to become more, and not the “6 months and here is your gun” as they do in the US?
Imo this is a key problem with police in the US. You’re meant to take something like this video, analyse it, grow from it and provide a better procedure/training in what to do in that sort of situation so that it is more safe for both police and the public in the future.
Instead you get “police tried to stop a robber by shooting into a crowded street, two civilians were killed and the robber only has slight injuries”. And the police response is “oh we have qualified immunity, this is actually whats meant to happen, we stopped the robber didn’t we etc etc etc” and nothing is learnt.
If you look into this story a little further, it turns out that there are a few things to consider.
One, this is actually the result of training. The man served two tours overseas, this is quite literally what he’s trained to do. Do you have any idea what a gunshot sounds like from far away? Because it’s not exactly a clear sound, and there are a shitload of different bullets (and gun barrels, compensators, silencers, sub sonic ammunition as an even further layer) to make different noise. When you’re used to being shot at from far away, yeah a sound like this actually does sound like you’re being shot at. I could also easily see someone mistaking it for a bullet landing near them.
He also describes experiencing a tingly sensation and thinking something was wrong with his left(? going from memory, lazy) side. It very much sounds like he had a PTSD attack.
Lastly, he resigned during the course of the investigation into the shooting. Not to mention, the investigation into him concluded that no he should not have unloaded his firearm after hearing an acorn hit the car.
Should he be a cop? Fuck no! He likely has undiagnosed PTSD and should be getting help, not putting himself into circumstances where he is much more likely to be shot at.
However this is not the result of incompetence. This man is a military veteran. He will likely be more proficient with firearms than you or I ever will be. You need to stop thinking of cops as pigs in tight bullet proof vests. This guy, and there are absolutely others like him, is not at all untrained.
He may have PTSD and he may have had 1,000 hours of firearms training, but if you empty your magazine the way he did, under the circumstances he did, you’re incompetent to be a police officer. Period.
And even he apparently recognizes that since he resigned (though whether he’ll just go get hired the next town over is probably a decent bet).
I’ll preface this saying that I own firearms and I spent 11 years in the military, I’ve had people shoot in my general direction, but I’ve bever been in a firefight.
Police and military operate in different environments that require different skillsets and different training. People expect, incorrectly, that police are there to protect citizens (this isn’t a rant about them protecting only the owner class…the judicial branch has upheld that police had no duty to protect). IF they had a duty to protect, they wouldn’t be allowed to open fire without a target in site and awareness of what was beyond that target and endangered when they miss that target.
Hearing a gunshot is not a valid excuse for randomly discharging your weapon.
I’m glad nobody was hurt, and I really hope the VA or some other organization is able to help this guy recover from his combat trauma. The department that hired him should have done better, and I hope they revisit their candidate screening policy…
This is the result of having minimal training and not having enough training to be competent.
His description of legs feeling weak and tingly are that of an adrenaline dump.
i.e officer has been trained in handling firearms but not “stress innoculated” he’s not been trained to respond properly in a stressful situation.
His firearm handling is also below an acceptable standard. He emptied his mag without so much as landing a single hit on the car and when he goes to reload fumbles numerous times, isn’t sure if he wants to reload or find cover and does both badly.
I mean fuck cops for sure but UKs gun laws are extremely strict for civilians I think you can only have antiques, even. In america there is guns everywhere. That kid you’re frisking and giving a hard time could have daddy’s pistol in his backpack. Its just a different environment in us
Perhaps you shouldn’t be giving him a hard time then? Perhaps you should politely ask to check him.
Every single time I’ve ever watched US cops deal with the situation they always seem to escalate it they get their guns out and start yelling immediately. I’ve seen situations where the suspect is being entirely cooperative and they’re still yelling. What are they trying to prove at that point?
Shut the hell up, calm down, and actually evaluate the situation.
Dude I hate cops with a burning passion but yeah for sure you should just go into North St Louis or Southside Chicago and just be real nice to everyone. That’s gonna work.
If US police is this incompetent, the only real solution is to take their guns away. It works in the UK.
And yes, there are more guns in general in the US, but that means that the police needs to be BETTER at deescalation than in the UK, not worse.
(Also: Obviously there are exceptions for specialized units in the UK, and the same would have to happen in the US, but your standard run-of-the-mill cop really doesn’t need more than pepper-spray and a stick.)
How about we also give them actual training? You know, basic 4 year training like in Europe, to become basic police officer, additional training to become more, and not the “6 months and here is your gun” as they do in the US?
Imo this is a key problem with police in the US. You’re meant to take something like this video, analyse it, grow from it and provide a better procedure/training in what to do in that sort of situation so that it is more safe for both police and the public in the future.
Instead you get “police tried to stop a robber by shooting into a crowded street, two civilians were killed and the robber only has slight injuries”. And the police response is “oh we have qualified immunity, this is actually whats meant to happen, we stopped the robber didn’t we etc etc etc” and nothing is learnt.
If you look into this story a little further, it turns out that there are a few things to consider.
One, this is actually the result of training. The man served two tours overseas, this is quite literally what he’s trained to do. Do you have any idea what a gunshot sounds like from far away? Because it’s not exactly a clear sound, and there are a shitload of different bullets (and gun barrels, compensators, silencers, sub sonic ammunition as an even further layer) to make different noise. When you’re used to being shot at from far away, yeah a sound like this actually does sound like you’re being shot at. I could also easily see someone mistaking it for a bullet landing near them.
He also describes experiencing a tingly sensation and thinking something was wrong with his left(? going from memory, lazy) side. It very much sounds like he had a PTSD attack.
Lastly, he resigned during the course of the investigation into the shooting. Not to mention, the investigation into him concluded that no he should not have unloaded his firearm after hearing an acorn hit the car.
Should he be a cop? Fuck no! He likely has undiagnosed PTSD and should be getting help, not putting himself into circumstances where he is much more likely to be shot at.
However this is not the result of incompetence. This man is a military veteran. He will likely be more proficient with firearms than you or I ever will be. You need to stop thinking of cops as pigs in tight bullet proof vests. This guy, and there are absolutely others like him, is not at all untrained.
He may have PTSD and he may have had 1,000 hours of firearms training, but if you empty your magazine the way he did, under the circumstances he did, you’re incompetent to be a police officer. Period.
And even he apparently recognizes that since he resigned (though whether he’ll just go get hired the next town over is probably a decent bet).
I’ll preface this saying that I own firearms and I spent 11 years in the military, I’ve had people shoot in my general direction, but I’ve bever been in a firefight.
Police and military operate in different environments that require different skillsets and different training. People expect, incorrectly, that police are there to protect citizens (this isn’t a rant about them protecting only the owner class…the judicial branch has upheld that police had no duty to protect). IF they had a duty to protect, they wouldn’t be allowed to open fire without a target in site and awareness of what was beyond that target and endangered when they miss that target.
Hearing a gunshot is not a valid excuse for randomly discharging your weapon.
I’m glad nobody was hurt, and I really hope the VA or some other organization is able to help this guy recover from his combat trauma. The department that hired him should have done better, and I hope they revisit their candidate screening policy…
This is the result of having minimal training and not having enough training to be competent.
His description of legs feeling weak and tingly are that of an adrenaline dump.
i.e officer has been trained in handling firearms but not “stress innoculated” he’s not been trained to respond properly in a stressful situation.
His firearm handling is also below an acceptable standard. He emptied his mag without so much as landing a single hit on the car and when he goes to reload fumbles numerous times, isn’t sure if he wants to reload or find cover and does both badly.
That too.
Take their guns away and give them acorns.
I mean fuck cops for sure but UKs gun laws are extremely strict for civilians I think you can only have antiques, even. In america there is guns everywhere. That kid you’re frisking and giving a hard time could have daddy’s pistol in his backpack. Its just a different environment in us
Perhaps you shouldn’t be giving him a hard time then? Perhaps you should politely ask to check him.
Every single time I’ve ever watched US cops deal with the situation they always seem to escalate it they get their guns out and start yelling immediately. I’ve seen situations where the suspect is being entirely cooperative and they’re still yelling. What are they trying to prove at that point?
Shut the hell up, calm down, and actually evaluate the situation.
Dude I hate cops with a burning passion but yeah for sure you should just go into North St Louis or Southside Chicago and just be real nice to everyone. That’s gonna work.
What you’re asking for requires intelligence, which is actively selected against by most police departments in the US.