Christianity says whatever the people in charge say it says. That’s how the Catholic leaders have tons of wealth, Protestant leaders have tons of wealth, Anglican leaders have tons of wealth…really, every sect has money funneling up from the poor to the leaders. But it’s still marketed to the poor the exact same way.
That’s not a problem unique to Christianity. For example: “The Constitution says whatever the SCOTUS justices say it says.” or perhaps you prefer “The news says whatever Rupert Murdoch says it says” or even “Lemmy says whatever the admins say it says.”
Point is, any institution suffers the risk that its leaders could dictate its message or pervert its original intent for their own benefit. But Christianity–like the news, the law, and federated communities–is not a monolith. The Lakewood Church might adopt doctrines that are specially tailored to enriching Joel Osteen and his entourage, but that instance of corruption isn’t an indicator that Christianity–which existed for 1900 years before it–is inherently corrupt or somehow uniquely predisposed to manipulation by conmen.
By all reputable historic accounts, early Christian communities were socialistic, and its popularity among poor and marginalized Jews, Hellenistic Jews, and pagans is largely responsible for its spread during the first two centuries of its existence. The Christian texts we have today still resonate with the poor because their authors wrote them for the poor of their day, and it turns out poverty isn’t terribly different in the 21st Century from the 1st.
The Catholic Church used Christianity to make boatloads of cash. So did the Greek Orthodox Church, the Reformed Church, the Southern Baptist Convention, and most other large institutions. So did other institutional religions (and non-religions). That’s not a problem with Christianity. It’s a problem with people. The overwhelming majority of church pastors I’ve known personally had to maintain a separate full-time job, because running churches is not a money-making enterprise unless you’re a corporation, an especially gifted and morally bankrupt businessman, or you inherited it.
All of that is to say that the problem with Christian institutions is the same problem with all institutions: greed. For the love of money is the root of all evil.
It’s not about religion. It’s about class. No war but the class war.
Keep in mind that the US constitution, Rupert Murdock, or Lemmy are not designed to target the poor and encourage them to tithe so that money can be funneled upwards to the leader. Well, maybe Rupert Murdock, but not the US constitution and definitely not Lemmy. There’s a difference between telling the poor that everyone is equal under the law, and telling the poor that if they believe hard enough and give the church 10% of their earnings regardless of their financial status that they will be rewarded in the afterlife or even rewarded maybe possibly while they are still alive.
How about telling the poor that if they work hard eventually they’ll be millionaires? Or telling them that a lower capital gains tax will improve their spending power? What about telling them that cheap drugs are penalized 100:1 to more expensive drugs?
The law enriches the rich, and politics convinces people to vote against their own interests. Call it a tithe or a tax, and enforce it with the threat of state violence or social opprobrium, but the result is the same.
Jesus of Nazareth said you should take care of your neighbors, because the religious institutions and government won’t, and those religious institutions and governments killed Him for it. That the American church is hard to distinguish from the First Century Jewish priesthood is no accident.
How about telling the poor that if they work hard eventually they’ll be millionaires? Or telling them that a lower capital gains tax will improve their spending power? What about telling them that cheap drugs are penalized 100:1 to more expensive drugs?
This is capitalists every step of the way. Not the US constitution. But they aren’t telling you that you might go to hell if you don’t tithe. They are holding the word of their god over your head and making you feel guilty if you don’t believe hard enough.
The ideas of your Jesus of Nazareth are noble enough on the surface. But they still insist you submit to a higher authority, and those higher authorities always have a human that you actually submit to and give money to. Funny how that works…
No, science arises naturally from human curiosity about the universe. Religion arises from human desire to control others and accumulate wealth, as demonstrated by every religion ever created.
That’s the kind of thing I would expect someone to say if they formed an opinion about religion without ever really learning anything about any religions other than maybe the one they were raised with.
I’m very familiar with several forms of Christianity, as well as some early Jewish traditions and a bit of Islam, and let’s not forget various forms of Eastern religions, and of course my favorite, Wicca and Paganism. Any time a religion formalizes and creates a hierarchy, it always leads to funneling money and power to the leaders.
The majority of the religions you mentioned there are decentralized and don’t have a hierarchy. Yet you claimed religions are always invented with the sole purpose of controlling the masses.
Bud, religion GAVE us science. Most religions are old a shit and are basically the precursors to science as scholars back in the day were funded by the church.
Protestantism really caught on when leaders realise that church land would become the kings lands after conversion. It created a agricolarchy or farmarchy or whatever you want to call it in Iceland when before the church owned the land. It basically removed all social welfare in the country and passed on ownership to the ruling class which already had a diet-slavery (vistarbandið) for non-land owners codified in law.
Christianity says whatever the people in charge say it says. That’s how the Catholic leaders have tons of wealth, Protestant leaders have tons of wealth, Anglican leaders have tons of wealth…really, every sect has money funneling up from the poor to the leaders. But it’s still marketed to the poor the exact same way.
That’s not a problem unique to Christianity. For example: “The Constitution says whatever the SCOTUS justices say it says.” or perhaps you prefer “The news says whatever Rupert Murdoch says it says” or even “Lemmy says whatever the admins say it says.”
Point is, any institution suffers the risk that its leaders could dictate its message or pervert its original intent for their own benefit. But Christianity–like the news, the law, and federated communities–is not a monolith. The Lakewood Church might adopt doctrines that are specially tailored to enriching Joel Osteen and his entourage, but that instance of corruption isn’t an indicator that Christianity–which existed for 1900 years before it–is inherently corrupt or somehow uniquely predisposed to manipulation by conmen.
By all reputable historic accounts, early Christian communities were socialistic, and its popularity among poor and marginalized Jews, Hellenistic Jews, and pagans is largely responsible for its spread during the first two centuries of its existence. The Christian texts we have today still resonate with the poor because their authors wrote them for the poor of their day, and it turns out poverty isn’t terribly different in the 21st Century from the 1st.
The Catholic Church used Christianity to make boatloads of cash. So did the Greek Orthodox Church, the Reformed Church, the Southern Baptist Convention, and most other large institutions. So did other institutional religions (and non-religions). That’s not a problem with Christianity. It’s a problem with people. The overwhelming majority of church pastors I’ve known personally had to maintain a separate full-time job, because running churches is not a money-making enterprise unless you’re a corporation, an especially gifted and morally bankrupt businessman, or you inherited it.
All of that is to say that the problem with Christian institutions is the same problem with all institutions: greed. For the love of money is the root of all evil.
It’s not about religion. It’s about class. No war but the class war.
Based
Keep in mind that the US constitution, Rupert Murdock, or Lemmy are not designed to target the poor and encourage them to tithe so that money can be funneled upwards to the leader. Well, maybe Rupert Murdock, but not the US constitution and definitely not Lemmy. There’s a difference between telling the poor that everyone is equal under the law, and telling the poor that if they believe hard enough and give the church 10% of their earnings regardless of their financial status that they will be rewarded in the afterlife or even rewarded maybe possibly while they are still alive.
How about telling the poor that if they work hard eventually they’ll be millionaires? Or telling them that a lower capital gains tax will improve their spending power? What about telling them that cheap drugs are penalized 100:1 to more expensive drugs?
The law enriches the rich, and politics convinces people to vote against their own interests. Call it a tithe or a tax, and enforce it with the threat of state violence or social opprobrium, but the result is the same.
Jesus of Nazareth said you should take care of your neighbors, because the religious institutions and government won’t, and those religious institutions and governments killed Him for it. That the American church is hard to distinguish from the First Century Jewish priesthood is no accident.
This is capitalists every step of the way. Not the US constitution. But they aren’t telling you that you might go to hell if you don’t tithe. They are holding the word of their god over your head and making you feel guilty if you don’t believe hard enough.
The ideas of your Jesus of Nazareth are noble enough on the surface. But they still insist you submit to a higher authority, and those higher authorities always have a human that you actually submit to and give money to. Funny how that works…
You are entirely missing the point that it isnt religion or capitalism, but ALL human led power structures that lean this way over time
Are you suggesting that religion is designed? Because it isn’t. It arises naturally from human curiosity about the universe.
No, science arises naturally from human curiosity about the universe. Religion arises from human desire to control others and accumulate wealth, as demonstrated by every religion ever created.
That’s the kind of thing I would expect someone to say if they formed an opinion about religion without ever really learning anything about any religions other than maybe the one they were raised with.
I’m very familiar with several forms of Christianity, as well as some early Jewish traditions and a bit of Islam, and let’s not forget various forms of Eastern religions, and of course my favorite, Wicca and Paganism. Any time a religion formalizes and creates a hierarchy, it always leads to funneling money and power to the leaders.
The majority of the religions you mentioned there are decentralized and don’t have a hierarchy. Yet you claimed religions are always invented with the sole purpose of controlling the masses.
Bud, religion GAVE us science. Most religions are old a shit and are basically the precursors to science as scholars back in the day were funded by the church.
As if the hierarchical structure of religion isn’t a class system.
Protestantism really caught on when leaders realise that church land would become the kings lands after conversion. It created a agricolarchy or farmarchy or whatever you want to call it in Iceland when before the church owned the land. It basically removed all social welfare in the country and passed on ownership to the ruling class which already had a diet-slavery (vistarbandið) for non-land owners codified in law.
Quakers.