Right cuz 30,000 dead in 4 months is nothing. Did you think a genocide means every Palestinian is dead in 4 months? If that happened, every country on earth would have declared war on israel two months ago and every israeli official would be in prison for crimes against humanity.
As it is, the vast majority of scholars and countries do recognize it as a genocide and even America, israels biggest supporter, is saying maybe they should stop the killing of innocent civilians.
If the pace of killing and bombing keeps up for another year, I could guarantee a million Palestinians would be dead. Give me an exact number that israel has to reach before you admit it’s a genocide. Seriously, give me a number.
Given the incompetence of the Hamas led defense, no 30k in 4 months is surprisingly low. Gaza is incredibly small and incredibly dense. They (the IDF) has to use incredibly modern munitions to airstrike single buildings and minimize collateral damage.
If the IDF went full Russia and simply WW2 artillery barraged Gaza similar to Bahkmut I’d expect 250k+ casualties.
If that happened, every country on earth would have declared war on israel two months ago and every israeli official would be in prison for crimes against humanity.
Unlikely.
Give me an exact number that israel has to reach before you admit it’s a genocide.
6:1 is the UN acceptable civilian to military casualty rate before they generally start investigating a conflict as a genocide. There’s an estimate 50k Hamas fighter in the Strip. That’s a theoretical headroom of 300k civilian casualties. That’s the number that would make me think it’s more than likely not a genocide.
What does Hamas incompetence have anything to do with civilian deaths?
And what kind of math is that? 50k Hamas would have to be killed for the 300k number to matter. The actual number of Hamas killed is way way lower. There is some dispute over the exact number, but between 6-12k which would be between 36-72k civilians killed.
I understand your position, but I’m still concerned that it is an attempted genocide due to the high number of civilian casualties, the methods israel has been taking such as using phosphorus bombs and pushing all civilians south to Rafah and then starting to bomb Rafah as well, and just by what israeli officials have said that are genocidal in nature.
A US official told CNN that the US believes that the Israeli military is using the dumb bombs in conjunction with a tactic called “dive bombing,” or dropping a bomb while diving steeply in a fighter jet, which the official said makes the bombs more precise because it gets it closer to its target. The official said the US believes that an unguided munition dropped via dive-bombing is similarly precise to a guided munition.
So the dumb bombs their using their deploying them in a dangerous method to minimize collateral damage. That makes my point, it doesn’t refute it.
What does Hamas incompetence have anything to do with civilian deaths?
Because if Hamas had been competent they’d be able to contest the airspace their fighting over and prevent wide scale bombing. What’s more instead of killing babies and elderly and raping women they’d have secured a transportation corridor to the West Bank so they could be resupplied overland.
Or put more succinctly, they would have prepared appropriately for the war they started. And if they had done so and followed the rules of war Israel would actually have the political capital internally to negotiate a peace of some sort. Instead they said, “Let’s put all of our resources into a slave raid.”
And what kind of math is that? 50k Hamas would have to be killed for the 300k number to matter. The actual number of Hamas killed is way way lower. There is some dispute over the exact number, but between 6-12k which would be between 36-72k civilians killed.
Exact numbers of Hamas dead won’t be available until long after the war. But part of the reason there’s such a full court press to get Israel to stop is that they’ve got large pockets of Hamas surrounded in the North. At some point that pocket is going to fall and the number could double.
I understand your position, but I’m still concerned that it is an attempted genocide due to the high number of civilian casualties, the methods israel has been taking such as using phosphorus bombs and pushing all civilians south to Rafah and then starting to bomb Rafah as well, and just by what israeli officials have said that are genocidal in nature.
It’s not unreasonable to see what’s happening in Gaza and desiring that it stop. It’s a very natural response. And you’re not a bad person for thinking that way.
But at it’s core Hamas has not only been unapologetic about its terrorist attack (which was proportionally larger than 9/11 when adjusted for population); but they’ve promised that they’d do it (Oct 7th) again. During the temporary ceasefire they broke it and fired rockets and or missiles every single day into Israel. Their leaders have confirmed that they don’t see the wellbeing of the Palestinian Civilians in Gaza as their responsibility. They’ve ruled as a religious dictatorship, executing political opponents with no democracy for almost two decades now. They confirmed that they will never, ever attempt to live at peace with their neighbors. And they’ve committed widespread domestic atrocities against their own populace.
Hamas simply cannot be allowed to remain in power in the Gaza strip if there is to be long lasting peace. After 20 years of Hamas’ rule it’s pretty clear they will never be a party to something like the Good Friday Agreement and enter a period of peace.
Right cuz 30,000 dead in 4 months is nothing. Did you think a genocide means every Palestinian is dead in 4 months? If that happened, every country on earth would have declared war on israel two months ago and every israeli official would be in prison for crimes against humanity.
As it is, the vast majority of scholars and countries do recognize it as a genocide and even America, israels biggest supporter, is saying maybe they should stop the killing of innocent civilians.
If the pace of killing and bombing keeps up for another year, I could guarantee a million Palestinians would be dead. Give me an exact number that israel has to reach before you admit it’s a genocide. Seriously, give me a number.
Given the incompetence of the Hamas led defense, no 30k in 4 months is surprisingly low. Gaza is incredibly small and incredibly dense. They (the IDF) has to use incredibly modern munitions to airstrike single buildings and minimize collateral damage.
If the IDF went full Russia and simply WW2 artillery barraged Gaza similar to Bahkmut I’d expect 250k+ casualties.
Unlikely.
6:1 is the UN acceptable civilian to military casualty rate before they generally start investigating a conflict as a genocide. There’s an estimate 50k Hamas fighter in the Strip. That’s a theoretical headroom of 300k civilian casualties. That’s the number that would make me think it’s more than likely not a genocide.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html
Half of their bombs are not modern bombs.
What does Hamas incompetence have anything to do with civilian deaths?
And what kind of math is that? 50k Hamas would have to be killed for the 300k number to matter. The actual number of Hamas killed is way way lower. There is some dispute over the exact number, but between 6-12k which would be between 36-72k civilians killed.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-12000-hamas-fighters-killed-in-gaza-war-double-the-terror-groups-claim/
I understand your position, but I’m still concerned that it is an attempted genocide due to the high number of civilian casualties, the methods israel has been taking such as using phosphorus bombs and pushing all civilians south to Rafah and then starting to bomb Rafah as well, and just by what israeli officials have said that are genocidal in nature.
But then in your article:
So the dumb bombs their using their deploying them in a dangerous method to minimize collateral damage. That makes my point, it doesn’t refute it.
Because if Hamas had been competent they’d be able to contest the airspace their fighting over and prevent wide scale bombing. What’s more instead of killing babies and elderly and raping women they’d have secured a transportation corridor to the West Bank so they could be resupplied overland.
Or put more succinctly, they would have prepared appropriately for the war they started. And if they had done so and followed the rules of war Israel would actually have the political capital internally to negotiate a peace of some sort. Instead they said, “Let’s put all of our resources into a slave raid.”
Exact numbers of Hamas dead won’t be available until long after the war. But part of the reason there’s such a full court press to get Israel to stop is that they’ve got large pockets of Hamas surrounded in the North. At some point that pocket is going to fall and the number could double.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-12000-hamas-fighters-killed-in-gaza-war-double-the-terror-groups-claim/
It’s not unreasonable to see what’s happening in Gaza and desiring that it stop. It’s a very natural response. And you’re not a bad person for thinking that way.
But at it’s core Hamas has not only been unapologetic about its terrorist attack (which was proportionally larger than 9/11 when adjusted for population); but they’ve promised that they’d do it (Oct 7th) again. During the temporary ceasefire they broke it and fired rockets and or missiles every single day into Israel. Their leaders have confirmed that they don’t see the wellbeing of the Palestinian Civilians in Gaza as their responsibility. They’ve ruled as a religious dictatorship, executing political opponents with no democracy for almost two decades now. They confirmed that they will never, ever attempt to live at peace with their neighbors. And they’ve committed widespread domestic atrocities against their own populace.
Hamas simply cannot be allowed to remain in power in the Gaza strip if there is to be long lasting peace. After 20 years of Hamas’ rule it’s pretty clear they will never be a party to something like the Good Friday Agreement and enter a period of peace.