I thought maybe there is some special provision for issuing driver’s licenses in Native American territory (Pamunkey) or something. We have these clowns here in Germany as well. They’re pretty much the same way. Somewhat hilarious folk. Some of them even planned a coup d’état a few years ago - even that was kind of funny because it was so absurd and awfully planned.
Nope, drivers licenses are still only issued by the state, however I do register my cars through my tribe for a cheaper price and (imho) a better looking plate. Our CDIB cards are just that proof that you are a member of a tribe and to what degree your lineage is (1/2, 1/4, etc)… some tribes though have reissued ID cards for the CDIB that can act as a “real ID” (like mine) but I’ve yet to try to use it that way as my drivers license is more than enough for that situation. I can also use it as a secondary ID for i9, loans, etc but I don’t think it can use as a primary on those (usually driver license, passport, and birth certs are for primary)
Well, that’s some really interesting inside info. Thanks a million. Lemmy is really the shit: I’m just a rando thousands of miles away. And yet I still get quality answers to my naive questions. Wonderful; thank you!
From what I can see, fraud requires intent, so if these whackadooos actually believe it’s valid, then it wouldn’t be fraud, but would still violate some other law that doesn’t require intent (similar to how manslaughter and murder both result in someones death but murder basically requires intent and manslaughter doesn’t).
The intent is about whether you intended you pass off an invalid form of ID as valid though? Just because you believed it was valid doesn’t stop it from being fraud
It gets funky … from what I’m finding (I found more, but this was the easiest and it comes from a legit looking location), there is such a thing as negligent fraud in CIVIL law, but even that requires that you to have not had reasonable reasons to believe it to be true. I would argue that they’re idiots and should have known better, but, I can’t say that I’d win that argument in a courtroom (if I somehow found myself there, lol).
On the criminal side, from what I’m seeing they basically all require some form of intent, but ‘fraud’ at a criminal level doesn’t seem to exist, it’s all different legally defined types of fraud.
Either way, you’d still be guilty of driving without a valid license whether you thought you had one or not, it’s just giving an invalid ‘license’ over to the officer wouldn’t necessarily have been fraud.
Nah, judges don’t put up with sovcit bullshit. Depending on who is doing the case(if the company they tried to scam is, it will be civil, whereas if they called the police to deal with it, it could be criminal), if they get a judges oversight, they’re fucked.
Is it legal in the U.S. to produce fantasy documents that purport to be any kind of real document? That’s not a valid driver’s license, is it?
You can absolutely legally hand this to someone as an ID. And that someone is absolutely legally allowed to laugh and ask for a different one.
I thought maybe there is some special provision for issuing driver’s licenses in Native American territory (Pamunkey) or something. We have these clowns here in Germany as well. They’re pretty much the same way. Somewhat hilarious folk. Some of them even planned a coup d’état a few years ago - even that was kind of funny because it was so absurd and awfully planned.
Nope, drivers licenses are still only issued by the state, however I do register my cars through my tribe for a cheaper price and (imho) a better looking plate. Our CDIB cards are just that proof that you are a member of a tribe and to what degree your lineage is (1/2, 1/4, etc)… some tribes though have reissued ID cards for the CDIB that can act as a “real ID” (like mine) but I’ve yet to try to use it that way as my drivers license is more than enough for that situation. I can also use it as a secondary ID for i9, loans, etc but I don’t think it can use as a primary on those (usually driver license, passport, and birth certs are for primary)
Well, that’s some really interesting inside info. Thanks a million. Lemmy is really the shit: I’m just a rando thousands of miles away. And yet I still get quality answers to my naive questions. Wonderful; thank you!
Doesn’t it become fraud when you try and use in a legitimate transaction?
From what I can see, fraud requires intent, so if these whackadooos actually believe it’s valid, then it wouldn’t be fraud, but would still violate some other law that doesn’t require intent (similar to how manslaughter and murder both result in someones death but murder basically requires intent and manslaughter doesn’t).
The intent is about whether you intended you pass off an invalid form of ID as valid though? Just because you believed it was valid doesn’t stop it from being fraud
It gets funky … from what I’m finding (I found more, but this was the easiest and it comes from a legit looking location), there is such a thing as negligent fraud in CIVIL law, but even that requires that you to have not had reasonable reasons to believe it to be true. I would argue that they’re idiots and should have known better, but, I can’t say that I’d win that argument in a courtroom (if I somehow found myself there, lol).
On the criminal side, from what I’m seeing they basically all require some form of intent, but ‘fraud’ at a criminal level doesn’t seem to exist, it’s all different legally defined types of fraud.
Either way, you’d still be guilty of driving without a valid license whether you thought you had one or not, it’s just giving an invalid ‘license’ over to the officer wouldn’t necessarily have been fraud.
Nah, judges don’t put up with sovcit bullshit. Depending on who is doing the case(if the company they tried to scam is, it will be civil, whereas if they called the police to deal with it, it could be criminal), if they get a judges oversight, they’re fucked.
Yes it is legal if used for entertainment purposes, like movies and jokes.
Not if they are being passed off as legal documents.
That’s what I thought. Thx.