Ranked choice voting systems are cool but I have a lot of doubt about it actually changing much in the way of who ends up in government. The government is filled with people who align quite neatly with the people who participate in party primaries.
It always seems like a thing that people imagine is going to result in their preferred government. Really though it is the voters you disagree with and the system mostly (if somewhat imperfectly) reflects their desires.
If you want (for instance) more left candidates to get into office, you have to start at the bottom and build a big bench of left candidates with proven track records who have a base of support. You can’t air drop a socialist into the potus race and expect voters to catch up with you. Stategic voting is a small problem, not voting is a much bigger one.
Nobody votes third party because it’s pointless. That in turn means new parties have no reason to exist. Once it was actually possible to vote for a third party while still making a choice between the top 2, people would do that, and options would appear.
Yeah, I understand how it works. I’m just don’t believe that strategic voting is really holding back candidates that I might like better. I think other voters are turning up to dem primaries in greater numbers.
Like I said, I like ranked choice, let’s do it. But, be prepared to see very little change.
Without switching to multi-winner elections, the voting system will do very little. My preference is Approval Voting for single-seat elections and Proportional Approval Voting for multi-winner elections.
I’m not even sure this is true. Certainly many people do vote third party, since they do get votes. Are there actual statistics on this or just online anecdotes?
I can only give personal anecdotes:
I’ve voted third party for President twice
My vote for one of the major parties is also pointless, since my state leans strongly in one direction
we don’t even get national campaigns, since we’re not a swing state. They also know my vote is pointless
I don’t have statistics, but I see lots of Democrats voters saying “I don’t like them but at least it’s not Trump”, and divisions among Republican voters as well. There does seem to be a lot of people who are “forced” to vote for a party even though it’s not their ideal choice. A lot of the discourse isn’t about what you want, but about making sure the other party won’t win. With ranked choice you could actually choose what you actually want, because there is no risk of “letting the other party win”.
I’ve voted third party for President twice
And so you ended up having no say on the actual choice. I applaud your idealism, but surely you can agree most people won’t entertain that because they will think it’s a wasted vote. All these people would maybe vote for your third party choice if they knew their vote won’t end up helping the candidate they deem the worst.
My vote for one of the major parties is also pointless, since my state leans strongly in one direction
we don’t even get national campaigns, since we’re not a swing state. They also know my vote is pointless
It leans strongly on the D <-> R axis. If there were 10 other parties trying to get votes, they would campaign in your state to get them and your vote would matter. Even if the D or R is guaranteed to be above the other in your state, ranked choice would allow other parties to be above this pair, while still guaranteeing everyone’s D/R choice is respected if it comes to it.
Exactly, where with the current system votes for a candidate may end up getting someone else elected, and you get strategic voting instead of voting for what you want.
if they refuse to support the candidate that leftists are supporting, and their candidate won’t support leftist policies, then their vote for a milquetoast candidate will end up getting trump elected just like in 2016
Ranked choice voting systems are cool but I have a lot of doubt about it actually changing much in the way of who ends up in government. The government is filled with people who align quite neatly with the people who participate in party primaries.
It always seems like a thing that people imagine is going to result in their preferred government. Really though it is the voters you disagree with and the system mostly (if somewhat imperfectly) reflects their desires.
If you want (for instance) more left candidates to get into office, you have to start at the bottom and build a big bench of left candidates with proven track records who have a base of support. You can’t air drop a socialist into the potus race and expect voters to catch up with you. Stategic voting is a small problem, not voting is a much bigger one.
Nobody votes third party because it’s pointless. That in turn means new parties have no reason to exist. Once it was actually possible to vote for a third party while still making a choice between the top 2, people would do that, and options would appear.
Yeah, I understand how it works. I’m just don’t believe that strategic voting is really holding back candidates that I might like better. I think other voters are turning up to dem primaries in greater numbers.
Like I said, I like ranked choice, let’s do it. But, be prepared to see very little change.
Without switching to multi-winner elections, the voting system will do very little. My preference is Approval Voting for single-seat elections and Proportional Approval Voting for multi-winner elections.
I’m not even sure this is true. Certainly many people do vote third party, since they do get votes. Are there actual statistics on this or just online anecdotes?
I can only give personal anecdotes:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_third-party_and_independent_performances_in_United_States_presidential_elections
I don’t have statistics, but I see lots of Democrats voters saying “I don’t like them but at least it’s not Trump”, and divisions among Republican voters as well. There does seem to be a lot of people who are “forced” to vote for a party even though it’s not their ideal choice. A lot of the discourse isn’t about what you want, but about making sure the other party won’t win. With ranked choice you could actually choose what you actually want, because there is no risk of “letting the other party win”.
And so you ended up having no say on the actual choice. I applaud your idealism, but surely you can agree most people won’t entertain that because they will think it’s a wasted vote. All these people would maybe vote for your third party choice if they knew their vote won’t end up helping the candidate they deem the worst.
It leans strongly on the D <-> R axis. If there were 10 other parties trying to get votes, they would campaign in your state to get them and your vote would matter. Even if the D or R is guaranteed to be above the other in your state, ranked choice would allow other parties to be above this pair, while still guaranteeing everyone’s D/R choice is respected if it comes to it.
great news, the only votes that help any candidate are votes for that candidate!
Exactly, where with the current system votes for a candidate may end up getting someone else elected, and you get strategic voting instead of voting for what you want.
yea. biden voters better get their head out of the sand and enroll in the cornel west campaign.
They probably could if it was ranked choice, but it isn’t.
if they refuse to support the candidate that leftists are supporting, and their candidate won’t support leftist policies, then their vote for a milquetoast candidate will end up getting trump elected just like in 2016