I understand your frustration at what I am saying, but I believe you have more influence over the Israeli people than I do as a non-jew. Am I wrong? I just imagine that Israeli jews would take more seriously and be more introspective after receiving critical comments from a fellow Jewish person, who presumably is more in tune with the worries and historical context of the Jewish community than a non Jewish person is.
My opinion is more easily decried as antisemitic or ignorant and waved away. Yours is not.
When Christians do horrible things in the name of god, don’t you think being called out by other Christians is going to carry some more weight?
What would make you think this? Just because we happen to share an ethnicity doesn’t mean an entire nation will listen to me or give me any entitlement to tell them what to do. Nor is it my responsibility, as a Jew.
And people who make decisions based on ancient mythology aren’t exactly making rational decisions in the first place, so I don’t know why an appeal on that basis would work. I may be a Jew, but I’m also an atheist. The last thing this situation needs is more religion.
Unfortunately, there’s no commonly accepted distinction between Jews who practice Judaism, Zionists, and ethnic Jews, At least not that I’m aware of. I do recognize that there is a difference, And if I were you, I would be pointing out the difference also.
I’m sorry, man.It sounds like this is rough for you to be tied to these people by the Jewish label. I hope sometime in this century. All this b******* gets sorted out For everyone’s sake.
Yes there is— you just listed them. And what i find especially despicable is people like you who speak out of both sides of your mouth while disingenuously trying to appear “understanding” and civil. If you really felt bad for anyone, you wouldn’t be here making accusations and “just asking questions” in bad faith, trying to provoke an argument.
I said commonly accepted. I’m sorry, but those distinctions are lost on the general public.And what we need is the general public to put pressure on politicians. But sure, whatever, Let’s get pissy and fight amongst ourselves. I’m sure that will help.
And don’t compare me to that just asking questions Tucker Carlson, bullshit. I don’t care where you live. I don’t think it’s a big ask for someone to stand up and say killing civilians is a bad thing.
It’s pretty arrogant of you to think you get to speak for the “general public”. And you weren’t asking for someone to stand up and say killing civilians is a bad thing— you have been saying that I, as a Jew, should lecture all of Israel about what they’re doing and they they should listen just because I happen to be a Jew also. Did you suddenly get struck by amnesia and forget what you’ve been saying this whole time? Because you can scroll up and review your past comments if you forgot what you said. Everyone else who’s read this far sure saw what you said.
You say you don’t want to be compared to Tucker Carlson, then I suggest you drop his bad faith, bs “debate” style.
Yes, you should, as a Jew lecture all of Israel. The entire premise of Israel is based on the fact that Jews Have a divine Right and responsibility bestowed upon them by god. You are a Jew and therefore they should take you seriously based on that responsibility. Bestowed upon you by God, even if you don’t believe it, they supposedly do.
No I don’t expect you to change the world being one voice.I expect everyone together to raise their voices.And the overwhelming majority of voices together decrying atrocities to work against injustice can make the difference.
I can’t say “as a Jew think you guys are f****** morons,” but you can! So calm the f*** down, get over yourself, realize that I’m not accusing you of anything and stop being so f****** defensive and just do your part.
Fuck man, I’ve been reading this exchange and you sound a bit unhinged. Some random Jewish person living half a world away has no influence whatsoever on the actions of Israel. Do note that the person you’re arguing with has already spoken out against Israel’s actions in this very thread! But there’s nothing more they can do about it. They’re just a rando online, nobody in any position in power is going to give a fuck about what they say. Or what you say. Or what I say, for that matter. Putting all this shit on their shoulders (or anyone else not in Israel - or in a position of power elsewhere) is deranged.
The only people who can change anything about it are Israelis themselves, their government or foreign governments (maybe large corporations? But why would they as long as they make money, right?) by putting pressure on Israel. Nobody else. Certainly not some poor schmuck you decided to berate on Lemmy. Get over yourself.
I read your post and looked back and I apologized to the other poster. I was angry about the situation and drinking last night, not that drinking gives me permission to be an asshole.
Well you certainly have clearly articulated your ignorant prejudices and bigotries, but I still have yet to hear a reason why I, as a Jew, am responsible for the actions of Israel nor why my voice should matter to them just because I’m a Jew.
Your not responsible for their actions and I dont think I ever said that.
Look, I’m sorry I came at you so hard last night. I was drinking and I’m pissed off that there is a genocide going on that I feel like I can do fuck all about. Guess part of me wants to put it on other people since I feel helpless about it.
In retrospect saying we should publicly shame jews around the world for not going out of their way to scream publicly about a government that does not represent them - is stupid. I’m just frustrated and mad. I do think Israelis in the country should stand up to their government but you are right, Israelis and other jews are two very different groups of people.
I do think your voice probably carries more weight to at least some Israelis, but again, it’s not your responsibility.
I understand your frustration at what I am saying, but I believe you have more influence over the Israeli people than I do as a non-jew. Am I wrong? I just imagine that Israeli jews would take more seriously and be more introspective after receiving critical comments from a fellow Jewish person, who presumably is more in tune with the worries and historical context of the Jewish community than a non Jewish person is.
My opinion is more easily decried as antisemitic or ignorant and waved away. Yours is not.
When Christians do horrible things in the name of god, don’t you think being called out by other Christians is going to carry some more weight?
What would make you think this? Just because we happen to share an ethnicity doesn’t mean an entire nation will listen to me or give me any entitlement to tell them what to do. Nor is it my responsibility, as a Jew.
And people who make decisions based on ancient mythology aren’t exactly making rational decisions in the first place, so I don’t know why an appeal on that basis would work. I may be a Jew, but I’m also an atheist. The last thing this situation needs is more religion.
Unfortunately, there’s no commonly accepted distinction between Jews who practice Judaism, Zionists, and ethnic Jews, At least not that I’m aware of. I do recognize that there is a difference, And if I were you, I would be pointing out the difference also.
I’m sorry, man.It sounds like this is rough for you to be tied to these people by the Jewish label. I hope sometime in this century. All this b******* gets sorted out For everyone’s sake.
The difference between Jews and Zionists is the same as between Christians and Christo-Fascists.
Believers vs. Believers who believe they need to be in control because God picked them and all others are lesser.
Folks are welcome to believe what they want to believe, it’s when they want to use that belief to restrict other people that it’s a problem.
Yes there is— you just listed them. And what i find especially despicable is people like you who speak out of both sides of your mouth while disingenuously trying to appear “understanding” and civil. If you really felt bad for anyone, you wouldn’t be here making accusations and “just asking questions” in bad faith, trying to provoke an argument.
I said commonly accepted. I’m sorry, but those distinctions are lost on the general public.And what we need is the general public to put pressure on politicians. But sure, whatever, Let’s get pissy and fight amongst ourselves. I’m sure that will help.
And don’t compare me to that just asking questions Tucker Carlson, bullshit. I don’t care where you live. I don’t think it’s a big ask for someone to stand up and say killing civilians is a bad thing.
It’s pretty arrogant of you to think you get to speak for the “general public”. And you weren’t asking for someone to stand up and say killing civilians is a bad thing— you have been saying that I, as a Jew, should lecture all of Israel about what they’re doing and they they should listen just because I happen to be a Jew also. Did you suddenly get struck by amnesia and forget what you’ve been saying this whole time? Because you can scroll up and review your past comments if you forgot what you said. Everyone else who’s read this far sure saw what you said.
You say you don’t want to be compared to Tucker Carlson, then I suggest you drop his bad faith, bs “debate” style.
Yes, you should, as a Jew lecture all of Israel. The entire premise of Israel is based on the fact that Jews Have a divine Right and responsibility bestowed upon them by god. You are a Jew and therefore they should take you seriously based on that responsibility. Bestowed upon you by God, even if you don’t believe it, they supposedly do.
No I don’t expect you to change the world being one voice.I expect everyone together to raise their voices.And the overwhelming majority of voices together decrying atrocities to work against injustice can make the difference.
I can’t say “as a Jew think you guys are f****** morons,” but you can! So calm the f*** down, get over yourself, realize that I’m not accusing you of anything and stop being so f****** defensive and just do your part.
For one, you can say fuck on the internet, and for two, who are you to give out such ridiculous orders?
Speech to text censors stuff unless I go back and fix it.
And two yes I was being a bit of an asshole last night. See my new reply if you care.
Fuck man, I’ve been reading this exchange and you sound a bit unhinged. Some random Jewish person living half a world away has no influence whatsoever on the actions of Israel. Do note that the person you’re arguing with has already spoken out against Israel’s actions in this very thread! But there’s nothing more they can do about it. They’re just a rando online, nobody in any position in power is going to give a fuck about what they say. Or what you say. Or what I say, for that matter. Putting all this shit on their shoulders (or anyone else not in Israel - or in a position of power elsewhere) is deranged.
The only people who can change anything about it are Israelis themselves, their government or foreign governments (maybe large corporations? But why would they as long as they make money, right?) by putting pressure on Israel. Nobody else. Certainly not some poor schmuck you decided to berate on Lemmy. Get over yourself.
I read your post and looked back and I apologized to the other poster. I was angry about the situation and drinking last night, not that drinking gives me permission to be an asshole.
Well you certainly have clearly articulated your ignorant prejudices and bigotries, but I still have yet to hear a reason why I, as a Jew, am responsible for the actions of Israel nor why my voice should matter to them just because I’m a Jew.
Your not responsible for their actions and I dont think I ever said that.
Look, I’m sorry I came at you so hard last night. I was drinking and I’m pissed off that there is a genocide going on that I feel like I can do fuck all about. Guess part of me wants to put it on other people since I feel helpless about it.
In retrospect saying we should publicly shame jews around the world for not going out of their way to scream publicly about a government that does not represent them - is stupid. I’m just frustrated and mad. I do think Israelis in the country should stand up to their government but you are right, Israelis and other jews are two very different groups of people.
I do think your voice probably carries more weight to at least some Israelis, but again, it’s not your responsibility.