The most famous forms of Holocaust denial and revisionism tend to focus on Jews, casting doubt, for example, on how many were exterminated in the camps. But denying the impact the Nazis had on the other groups they targeted, including queer and trans people, disabled people and Romani people, is still Holocaust denial. Maybe someone should tell J.K. Rowling.

  • Flying Squid
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    138 months ago

    A moderate and cautious approach to change.

    What would the moderate and cautious approach have been to gain independence from colonialists?

    What would the moderate and cautious approach have been to ending slavery?

    What would the moderate and cautious approach have been to giving workers basic rights?

    • Lath
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      -158 months ago
      • Shore up the defenses, create logistics trains, be certain of the allies available, initiate battle when ready and after all diplomatic recourses have failed.

      • Have a standing replacement framework, compensate losses, ratify laws to support equal rights in its entirety, reduce support of transgressors in public eyes over time. There were few slave owners. Turning the masses against them wouldn’t have been difficult.

      • Prepare alternative replacement in case of refusal, then support unionizing while giving subsidies to encourage participation.

      Ideally, it’s supposed to advance slowly while keeping everyone relatively happy and stable.
      A government is supposed to consider all of its citizens and that means taking into consideration the consequences of failure, while also planning how to remedy them.

      • Flying Squid
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        98 months ago

        I’m sorry… are you actually going against revolutions against colonial powers?

        And if turning the masses against slave owners wouldn’t have been difficult, why did a war have to be fought over it?

        • Lath
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          -78 months ago

          You asked for a moderate and cautious approach. I gave you an example of one.
          If you draw from this more than what it is, then that’s on you, not me.

          The war in the US at least was fought due to a poor approach on the subject.
          The UK, at the very least if anything, managed to end slavery peacefully on its soil.

          • Flying Squid
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            78 months ago

            Britain has not ended slavery. And when it technically outlawed slavery within the British Isles (which is actually all the anti slavery laws did), it was neither a moderate nor a cautious approach.

            But, more importantly, there is still slavery in Britain:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_the_United_Kingdom

            Britain didn’t even end slavery in the 19th century either. They just changed the term to ‘indentured servitude’ and ‘blackbirding.’

            So it wasn’t ended peacefully because it wasn’t ended.

            Also, the idea that you even should end slavery gradually is pretty offensive to all of the people enslaved throughout history. Would you be comfortable saying to them, “you won’t be freed, but we’re ending this eventually because it’s a gradual process.”

            • Lath
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              -68 months ago

              Yes, it should be done gradually.
              What did the former slaves in the US have after they were freed? Nothing.
              Food, clothing, housing are burdens we can’t afford even now. Did you expect them to magically appear out of thin air once the slaves were freed?

              You want everything to be done now, on the spot, a fair and just world for everyone. How nice of you. But do you have the resources? The infrastructure? The personnel?
              You think that everyone will without a doubt respect everyone and everything without enough basic necessities to go around?

              • Flying Squid
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                58 months ago

                Weird, that wasn’t an issue for freeing Holocaust victims.

                Or should the closing of Treblinka been cautious and casual?

                • Lath
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                  -48 months ago

                  But there were issues. The starving ones who were fed too much and too fast died, while because the train tracks and roads leading to these camps were destroyed, logistics was slow in giving them the help they needed.
                  So freedom wasn’t as instant as you’d like to believe.

                  • Flying Squid
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                    58 months ago

                    There is a gulf between instant and gradual. You advocated for the latter. The latter means only killing fewer Jews.

                  • @gedaliyahM
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                    8 months ago

                    No, the freedom was instant. There may have been logistical issues with medical treatment of the now free people. In all my conversations with Holocaust survivors, I have never heard one say that they were not free after the camp was liberated. That is just a nonsense take.