I say this as a left-leaning person, I think Liberals do have a tendency to tear anybody down at the slightest whiff of even potential unintended non-political correctness. “Oh, you misused the terms ‘sex’ and ‘gender’ in the point you were trying to make?” or “You’re attempting to say anything mildly critical about women or minorities?” or even just people having legitimate misunderstandings about issues will cause them to get accused of some flavor of -ism. Granted, Conservatives seem to go out of their way to be blatantly ignorant fucktards, but I think even fellow Liberals and middle-of-the-roaders aren’t spared from this treatment.
This tbh. The criticism of how the left behaves in aggregate is probably valid.
It’s one of the reasons the left is less politically successful, this kind of excessive ‘call-out’ behaviour tends to cause groups to endlessly divide and fight one another (at least it’s consistent)
The right on the other hand tends to form ranks, far more hypocritical but better for mobilising large groups of people behind a common cause.
It’s one of the reasons the left is less politically successful, this kind of excessive ‘call-out’ behaviour tends to cause groups to endlessly divide and fight one another (at least it’s consistent)
I’m glad at least some people understand this. I grew up in a small farming community in Middle America. I was as left as they come, in my town. Always fought (in the literal sense) racism, bullying, sexism, saw no problem with people doing whatever they wanted to do and being who they wanted to be, this was in the late 90s and early 2000s. None of my opinions aligned with the majority of my peers or my family, and when young was called satanic for being pro-choice, anti-controlling people, pro-do whatever makes you happy as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. I only had a few friends, all outcasts. Today they’re all happily out of the closet. Edit: 1 is straight, maybe, has only ever had 1 girlfriend.
Now as an adult living in the biggest blue city in a red state I have found myself becoming more conservative in some ways, having more conservative friends. In large part due to the unwillingness of many to discuss serious issues without having a falling out over some relatively minor difference of opinion in the grand scheme of things, like not all Republicans being evil racist rednecks who just want to watch the world burn. Most of my family and many good-hearted associates voted Republican in 2016 because it’s what was on the ticket.
I used to proudly call myself a liberal but wouldn’t dare anymore. I’m sure someone will not read the whole comment and swing in here to tell me that’s good, that I’m just a Republican at heart and there must be a deeper reason for this, and to not let the door hit myself on the way out – amplifying my point.
Okay bud. Growing from criticism as in falling in line? Like I did in my youth, that caused me to become ostracized? You know nothing about me, I’m more critical of myself than most are of others, and always happily welcome valid criticism.
I really don’t understand what Liberal means in an American context. I’m a certified anarchist myself, hang out with left leaning folks from all walks of life, some very moderate, some more radical than I am and I never heard these types of comments and attacks. I sincerely don’t get it. Is it some kind of Twitter trend I’m too lemming to understand? Are America and Europe so different?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for calling out racists and sexists, but I don’t think I’ve seen those terms being applied to people for frivolous or far fetched reasons.
When Americans say liberal they’re talking mainly about social issues like support of LGBT+ rights, abortion, etc. They’re also usually for social economic programs, although this can encompass a broad range of issues with varying amounts of support, like universal basic income, more safety nets for low income people, higher taxes on the rich, universal or easier access to health care, etc.
There isn’t a direct equivalent in my language, indeed. But isn’t that basically well, “the left” (with all its nuances) ?
I often see comments about liberals from American left leaning individuals, but if it’s true that people are called out for being racists, sexists, bigots or whatever, I rarely see this accusation based on nothing, for “points” in my country.
I could find one or two if I think for long enough, but in my country at least, I’d struggle to think of people being called out without even strong suspicions of dark stuff going on (sexual harassment charges, clearly racists comments, and so on).
So I was wondering if the comment above was just making a classic right wing point, or if there’s indeed something specific with the American liberals.
But isn’t that basically well, “the left” (with all its nuances)
Globally in English I think “liberal” mostly refers more to the economic policy of letting companies do what they want without regulation, which is a right wing policy. Some people take a harder line on this and say that anyone in support of capitalism at all, even with strong social programs in place (like what you might find in countries like Sweden (or Denmark?)) is a right wing position, and you need to be in favor of communism or socialism (or maybe certain flavors of anarchy) to be considered left.
I was wondering if the comment above was just making a classic right wing point
In terms of social issues, I don’t really know if it’s unique to the US, but there’s a tendency in the states in (socially) liberal circles to have sort of “purity tests” in order to fit in. Like if you support most liberal issues like LGBT+ rights, pro-abortion, etc, but maybe you have one issue that you’re not firmly on the left about. Say you don’t agree that situation X counts as cultural appropriation, you might find yourself ostracized from a particular liberal group because you’re not “pure” enough to count as liberal, even if almost all your positions line up otherwise.
Depending on the maturity and life experience of the group and also how non-liberal your position is the acceptance into the group can vary. But these types of policy “checks” are stereotypically more important in liberal circles than conservative ones. However, I admit to not having much experience with what passes for regular (as in, non-government) conservatives, so it might end up being somewhat similar in certain cases. Like if you’re generally ok with LGBT issues maybe hardcore Christian groups might not accept you, even if you’re anti-abortion.
Some people refuse to accept the possibility they might be somewhat prejudice. As a result they excuse themselves and any contradiction to their narrative is an “attack.”
This is anecdotal and based on my own experiences with my family. For example, I bring to their attention trumps racist rhetoric. They argue its not racist and the all the things he does and says is perfectly normal and how dare I “baselessly accuse them of supporting a racist.”
On Reddit, I was once called a “commie” and a “Nazi” on two different subject subreddits, within hours, lol.
Neither ‘wing’ in the US can claim innocence of this kind of behavior. It’s Ideologue Tactics 101, and there are plenty of ideologues to go around, in my experience.
Yeah, particularly coming from European politics, my views don’t fit neatly into either of the american “thought boxes”, which makes me the literal devil to both american political extremes.
I say this as a left-leaning person, I think Liberals do have a tendency to tear anybody down at the slightest whiff of even potential unintended non-political correctness. “Oh, you misused the terms ‘sex’ and ‘gender’ in the point you were trying to make?” or “You’re attempting to say anything mildly critical about women or minorities?” or even just people having legitimate misunderstandings about issues will cause them to get accused of some flavor of -ism. Granted, Conservatives seem to go out of their way to be blatantly ignorant fucktards, but I think even fellow Liberals and middle-of-the-roaders aren’t spared from this treatment.
This tbh. The criticism of how the left behaves in aggregate is probably valid.
It’s one of the reasons the left is less politically successful, this kind of excessive ‘call-out’ behaviour tends to cause groups to endlessly divide and fight one another (at least it’s consistent)
The right on the other hand tends to form ranks, far more hypocritical but better for mobilising large groups of people behind a common cause.
I’m glad at least some people understand this. I grew up in a small farming community in Middle America. I was as left as they come, in my town. Always fought (in the literal sense) racism, bullying, sexism, saw no problem with people doing whatever they wanted to do and being who they wanted to be, this was in the late 90s and early 2000s. None of my opinions aligned with the majority of my peers or my family, and when young was called satanic for being pro-choice, anti-controlling people, pro-do whatever makes you happy as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. I only had a few friends, all outcasts. Today they’re all happily out of the closet. Edit: 1 is straight, maybe, has only ever had 1 girlfriend.
Now as an adult living in the biggest blue city in a red state I have found myself becoming more conservative in some ways, having more conservative friends. In large part due to the unwillingness of many to discuss serious issues without having a falling out over some relatively minor difference of opinion in the grand scheme of things, like not all Republicans being evil racist rednecks who just want to watch the world burn. Most of my family and many good-hearted associates voted Republican in 2016 because it’s what was on the ticket.
I used to proudly call myself a liberal but wouldn’t dare anymore. I’m sure someone will not read the whole comment and swing in here to tell me that’s good, that I’m just a Republican at heart and there must be a deeper reason for this, and to not let the door hit myself on the way out – amplifying my point.
You are who you vote for and Republicans simply vote for shitty people.
Emotionally intelligent people can grow from criticism. You obviously can’t.
It doesn’t make you Republican but it does make you incredibly weak character wise.
Okay bud. Growing from criticism as in falling in line? Like I did in my youth, that caused me to become ostracized? You know nothing about me, I’m more critical of myself than most are of others, and always happily welcome valid criticism.
Couple questions:
Are you doing a bit?
Would you call yourself liberal?
Whatever happened to the Popular Front of Judea?
I really don’t understand what Liberal means in an American context. I’m a certified anarchist myself, hang out with left leaning folks from all walks of life, some very moderate, some more radical than I am and I never heard these types of comments and attacks. I sincerely don’t get it. Is it some kind of Twitter trend I’m too lemming to understand? Are America and Europe so different? Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for calling out racists and sexists, but I don’t think I’ve seen those terms being applied to people for frivolous or far fetched reasons.
When Americans say liberal they’re talking mainly about social issues like support of LGBT+ rights, abortion, etc. They’re also usually for social economic programs, although this can encompass a broad range of issues with varying amounts of support, like universal basic income, more safety nets for low income people, higher taxes on the rich, universal or easier access to health care, etc.
There isn’t a direct equivalent in my language, indeed. But isn’t that basically well, “the left” (with all its nuances) ? I often see comments about liberals from American left leaning individuals, but if it’s true that people are called out for being racists, sexists, bigots or whatever, I rarely see this accusation based on nothing, for “points” in my country. I could find one or two if I think for long enough, but in my country at least, I’d struggle to think of people being called out without even strong suspicions of dark stuff going on (sexual harassment charges, clearly racists comments, and so on). So I was wondering if the comment above was just making a classic right wing point, or if there’s indeed something specific with the American liberals.
Globally in English I think “liberal” mostly refers more to the economic policy of letting companies do what they want without regulation, which is a right wing policy. Some people take a harder line on this and say that anyone in support of capitalism at all, even with strong social programs in place (like what you might find in countries like Sweden (or Denmark?)) is a right wing position, and you need to be in favor of communism or socialism (or maybe certain flavors of anarchy) to be considered left.
In terms of social issues, I don’t really know if it’s unique to the US, but there’s a tendency in the states in (socially) liberal circles to have sort of “purity tests” in order to fit in. Like if you support most liberal issues like LGBT+ rights, pro-abortion, etc, but maybe you have one issue that you’re not firmly on the left about. Say you don’t agree that situation X counts as cultural appropriation, you might find yourself ostracized from a particular liberal group because you’re not “pure” enough to count as liberal, even if almost all your positions line up otherwise.
Depending on the maturity and life experience of the group and also how non-liberal your position is the acceptance into the group can vary. But these types of policy “checks” are stereotypically more important in liberal circles than conservative ones. However, I admit to not having much experience with what passes for regular (as in, non-government) conservatives, so it might end up being somewhat similar in certain cases. Like if you’re generally ok with LGBT issues maybe hardcore Christian groups might not accept you, even if you’re anti-abortion.
Some people refuse to accept the possibility they might be somewhat prejudice. As a result they excuse themselves and any contradiction to their narrative is an “attack.”
Could you link me to one such example if you can think of one ? I’m curious.
This is anecdotal and based on my own experiences with my family. For example, I bring to their attention trumps racist rhetoric. They argue its not racist and the all the things he does and says is perfectly normal and how dare I “baselessly accuse them of supporting a racist.”
OMG people being sensitive about defending marginalized people. Can’t we just uphold the status quo for the sake of the majority?
There it is…
On Reddit, I was once called a “commie” and a “Nazi” on two different subject subreddits, within hours, lol.
Neither ‘wing’ in the US can claim innocence of this kind of behavior. It’s Ideologue Tactics 101, and there are plenty of ideologues to go around, in my experience.
Yeah, particularly coming from European politics, my views don’t fit neatly into either of the american “thought boxes”, which makes me the literal devil to both american political extremes.