- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
All available evidence shows that Israel has followed the laws of war, legal obligations, best practices in civilian harm mitigation and still found a way to reduce civilian casualties.
Those lies must not be spread.
Not in my watch
Im sorry, your watch?
What is you education level on LOAC, IR, combined force tactics in urban environments and rules of warfare? Because if its less that 25 years cut the crap and read the article.
Pretty much higher than may think or assume from a stranger in internet.
And I will not move an inch from my previous statement. Basically because nobody will admit this claim for a very reasonable reason. It is a lie.
The number of collateral damage and casualties in this counter terrorist operation (using their wording) is totally out of the scale in any urban conflict in the last 30 years. Mainly because before a city is sieged is usually evacuated. While in this condition the innocents and civilian are trapped with nowhere to go.
Idf has a very long track of using human shields (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/), commiting war crimes of every type (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26/), forging evidences (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/unrwa-report-says-israel-coerced-some-agency-employees-falsely-admit-hamas-links-2024-03-08/) or even directly lying (https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html), so the credibility of any Israel claim is very thin at the moment.
As you can notice all the links are backed by the very terrorist supporter U.N. And CNN.
And not speaking that the article is AN OPINON ARTICLE of a single person who choose to believe things without using any kind of crosscheck to any other number. So I did the work for you, here is the comparition of the deaths of Gaza VS some other conflicts (https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-22/25000-deaths-in-gaza-why-the-destruction-of-this-war-exceeds-that-of-other-major-conflicts.html), if the trend is maintained Gaza will end up with an order of magnitude more civillien deaths than any other conflict.
Those figures are from Hamas, they underly your entire argument and are almost certainly faked. Normal statistical data is noisy, fatalities would go up and down with attacks, and these don’t. It is perfectly linear.
When IDF soldiers exhibit illegal behavior they are generally punished, it is individual soldiers acting on their own, when Hamas commits war crimes over and over again it’s official policy, (calling for genocide, attacking civilians, stealing and preventing aid convoys, hiding in hospitals, dressing as IDF, launching indiscriminate rocket attacks.) Yet, Israel is the one being criticized and being called war criminals. It’s wild to me how obvious the double standard is.
UNRWA and Francesca Albanese, whose biases are obvious by now.
All the U.N. reports contain fake numbers, the press around the world are not telling the truth except the us and israel ones and international independent observers are biased. And of course we are not going to talk about the international trial because it will not improve the story either.
But a single article of a single person with zero worldwide relevance is the one telling the truth, and it is mainly because it supports your point of view. So obviously this guy MUST BE RIGHT.
Are you really sure that the biased and naive one are the extremely big majority of others? Like a lot of people say, when everywhere you go you smell shit, check your shoes first.
Everywhere in the world outside the Israel propaganda sphere is between concerned to horrified of what is happening in the Gaza stripe. You can read the press of a country with a lot of interest on the zone like Uruguay to check how the narrative isn’t standing the slightest scrutiny.
Israel is not in the right side of the history. And sadly the rest of the world either because nobody is moving a finger to stop it.
Hamas needs to answer for their crimes and Israel too.
What lies? Did you read the article? I’m curious on what grounds you refute it, citations welcome.
Not OP but will bring up the point that while I agree, a number of actions are currently before the courts on proportionality, individual actions and justification of broader actions where evidence is yet to be provided. Thinking blocking of aid convoys where supplies are being taken by Hamas, multiple UN resolutions on justification of conflict but also been attacked, damage on civilian structures which Hamas has illegally garrisoned. With evidence these actions can be justified, but they are still being investigated (as they should).
I unfortunately also fully believe there are a number of Israeli combatants that have absolutely committed war crimes, but also Hamas has committed crimes against humanity. One does not justify the other and I believe people of both sides should be tried accordingly.
Agreed that anyone committing war crimes needs to face justice. The problem is that many seem to be very loose about their definitions of war crimes but only when applied to Israel, which is actually taking extraordinary measures to reduce civilian harm, as this article details.
@DarkGamer
You’re joking, right?
Did you read the article? Plenty of examples there, with citations.
@DarkGamer
I read the opinion piece. The UN 🇺🇳 released a report yesterday called “The Anatomy of A Genocide,” the ICJ’s preliminary findings is that Israel is likely committing genocide. The IDF raped a woman in Al Shifa for two days until she could not speak, in front of her family. American propaganda is stunning.
A report by Francesca Albanese, UN special rapporteur, which means she is independent of the UN. She was authorized by HRC item 7 which was not approved by the UN itself, and is controversial. More info here.
Related: “Algeria, where are your Jews?”
You are miscategorizing their ruling, they said there was enough of a possibility for an investigation, nothing about it being likely. Were that the case they would have ordered a ceasefire.
Congratulations, you’ve fallen for Hamas propaganda.
Regarding the Hamas propaganda one I would still take this with a grain of salt.
Jerusalem post is a known supporter of Israel (no shit) and while there will be facts used the conclusions drawn will be biased - same as MEE or democracynow but other side
Not saying its wrong, only consider it.
@DarkGamer oh dear, you’re too far gone
Second reply- you won’t get a balanced reply on lemmy. There is a known bias against Israel and a push to promoting one sided articles and arguements from the likes of MEE and democracynow.org. The ignorance is wilful and fixed, to the point Hamas war crimes are justified as “they have no choice”, regardless of the evidence.
Nobody here is justifying Hamas. But Israel is killing children without any justification. To the point that even the U.N. Is concerned.
If you want a tip from a stranger. Reassess your position to think under which circumstance is OK killing kids. And we are not talking about just a pair of accidents (https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147512)
Agree - no one in this thread is justifying Hamas (its actually a pretty well referenced thread TBH) but these arguements are ones I have noticed over a number of months rather than a specific thread. I don’t have 25 year experience but studied it at bachelor level.
I do find it interesting your comment back jumps straight to number of kids. Please don’t take my step back and assess attitude for indifference - people die in war, especially those in high density urban environments where one side is a terrorist organization and the other attacks places that have lost protection. There is alot of shit wrong with this conflict, but by no means is Israel the only one causing it - you haven’t mentioned anything on how attacks are carried out on civilian structures because Hamas is using human shields either. You will argue civilian deaths are high - I fully agree because that is what happens in asymmetric and unconventional warfare.
So you literally made up a strawman to attack?
Agree, the situation is completely shitty in this part of the world, and probably it has many parents that contributed to it.
I know in which world I live, I am not naive either an Idealist. People die in war. But it is completely different dying because of bad luck (you were in the wrong place at the wrong time) than dying of indiscriminate fire. The responsability of the collateral damage is always on the attackers, because you can always decide to wait and attack in a more convenient moment.
And no again, usa in Iraq or Afghanistan was producing a fraction of these casualties per week in an affected population of almost an order of magnitude higher. There is not any excuse here.
Israel is indiscriminate killing civilians in Gaza, inflicting a level of pain and destruction that was not seen in a looong time.
This article is utter garbage that only tries to wash Israel image with lies and half baked trues. And it it is not ok