Jon Stewart is facing online backlash after saying Donald Trump’s case overvaluing his properties was “not victimless,” and sleuths found his own records.
Leave it to Tim Pool to completely miss the mark. The issue with Trump’s fraud case differs from this wildly. Trump inflates the assessed market value for an increased capital value to bolster collateral for loans. John Stewart put a giant sticker price on a building and some sucker bought it. Crazy thing about the free market, you can sell a shit sandwich for whatever someone will buy it for. Look at apple products.
The argument is actually that Trump didn’t “lie,” he just did exactly what Jon Leibowitz (Stewart) does:
“The attorney general of New York knew that Trump’s property values were inflated because when it came time to pay taxes, Trump undervalued the very same properties,” Stewart added. “It was all part of a very specific real estate practice known as lying.”
…
In 2014, Stewart sold his 6,280-square-foot Tribeca duplex to financier Parag Pande for $17.5 million.
The property’s asking price at that time is not available in listing records.
But according to 2013-2014 assessor records obtained by The Post, the property had the estimated market-value at only $1.882 million.
The actual assessor valuation was even lower, at $847,174.
Records also show that Stewart paid significantly lower property taxes, which were calculated based on that assessor valuation price — precisely what he called Trump out for doing in his Monday monologue.
So:
Trump based his own “inflated” numbers for loans on what the actual market value would be and, like Leibowitz, paid taxes at the lower assessed value.
They did the same thing, it’s just that Stewart didn’t use his personal home for a mortgage and thus didn’t acquire one that would have given him a loan at the assumed market value…
Just so I’m perfectly clear on what you’re saying. You’re trying to tell me that a man who lied about the square footage and the overall assumed market value of his assets to show to lenders that he had overstated his assets for lower interest rates and wider availability of loans from investing companies is the same to someone who sold their building as an absolute premium? The better conspiracy theory argument would have been to say that John Stewart was laundering money.
Again, the free market is the free market. People will pay what they feel the asset is worth. If this guy got suckered into paying such a premium that’s a him problem. Overstating your assets for lower interest rates and wider availability of funds is fraud. He was just found guilty of it…
The appraisers were insanely wrong about the market value of Stewart’s old home by a factor greater than 10 not once, but twice: he sold it for $17 mill, it resold for $12 mill. Point being, the actual value of the place was nowhere near what it was said to be by the appraisers, but that is the rate at which Stewart paid taxes, and he should be well aware of that different, or at least potentially have come up with some statement for us subsequent to this…
Now, it would not actually make sense for a banker to have only given a very limited loan to Stewart at a bad interest rate based on the $800k appraisal when it would be clear to someone with their ear actually to the market that the place is work 10x that (easy).
… So, Trump has been sued for fraud based on numbers that are incredibly off what the actual market values are - all for loans obtained in private interactions, some of these loans having already been paid back in full, and none of them being loans that Trump was struggling to payoff…
I fail to see how this is some significant crime against anybody.
But Leftists suddenly love banks and are deeply concerned about whether or not a bank is going to get ripped off, right? lol.
Again, you are conflating the notion that someone who sold items privately on an agreed upon private basis is the same for someone who literally lied about what the asset values they had in their possession to trick banks into offering different better loans.
You fail to see the significant crime because you seem to be hung up on the potential tax difference (of which John Stewart would have paid at the end of the year anyways due to capital gains tax) that these two are paying.
Let’s not sit here and pretend that someone who sold something over valued is anywhere near the same as someone lying about not only the value of the asset but of the assets themselves. I’m failing to see where or how you are drawing these lines as the idea of this post and your stance seems either ignorant or nonsensical. Just because the appraisal district is off by a sizeable margin doesn’t mean that it’s some weird conspiracy for the “witch hunt” of Donald Trump. If anything -again- that sticks out about this is some sort of money laundering scheme.
But the far right suddenly loves the new york times and are deeply incapable of determining the difference between two completely separate instances and trying to conflate the two together.
OK, I have given you a nice upvote because you have kept it civil and I certainly appreciate that.
Just to reiterate my point: I think people should be aware that appraisers can give radically incorrect appraisals of property values, and I think it was very much a victimless crime for banks to agree to give Trump loans for the amounts and rates that they did, which all went off without incident and any real lying. This is all just an attempt to destroy the former President’s chances at becoming President again, IMO.
I also think many on the left aren’t sincerely worried about “muh bankers and their loaaanns! Oh no! Fraaauuudd!” - the usual position (and the correct position) is that they are already engaged in usury and cronyism. How do you defraud that?
Also I am not “far right” - I am post-right. By taht I mean that, yes, sure, I am generally right wing, but I do not believe in the current left/right dichotomy and don’t want to indulge it too much.
Out of curiosity, and I don’t mean this pointedly. Have you ever purchased property? The assessment of appraisal doesn’t matter one way or another. You could easily be above or below it. It’s a fair market value, much like the Kelly bluebook for cars if you’re in the states (I’m uncertain if that’s a U.S. only assessor or not.) it’s a fair value of what the asset should be not the end all be all. Of course it’s the basis for taxes which is super relevant to your argument, I understand and appreciate that, but for much else it doesn’t matter.
Now let me start by stating, I think I understand where your points are. Please allow me to express the issues that I have with them and why these situations are different.
So, Jon Stewart sold his building for an obscene amount over the appraised value. There is a discrepancy among the assessed value, I see that as well. Most appraisal districts go off of a value for proposed areas plus other things like additional structures, refining of current structures (new roof, new windows, paved driveway, etc.) most offices ronco the absolute hell out of these appraisals for years. More often than not within city limits to do any of these things you have to pull permits. Pull enough of them and your house gets reappraised. This is important because the housing market will vary wildly. And yes, I’m aware that they will adjust property values yearly but they only fluctuate based on the current housing market. My guess would be (outside of money laundering that I stated earlier. I never argued the fact that it wasnt ridiculous, just that they aren’t the same.) that there has been several renovations done or a gentrification (or planned) of the neighborhood. We could speculate why it would be so high over the appraised value and I’m uncertain why there would be all the hullabaloo with reporting on it without any investigation. But I digress, selling something to someone who would have a chance to inspect the property, walk it themselves even, so they know what they are purchasing is far and away different from lying about asset values and even lying about the assets themselves to obtain better loans is fraud. On top of this there is so much about it being a victimless crime, money isn’t infinite, not without hyper inflation. Banks can’t just give endless loans. If this is a widespread practice, it takes away from the working class that try to secure loans for literally anything.
But again, the buyer who way overpaid got to go through the ringer when buying the property. The bank could have been up a creek if he didn’t pay. What happens when banks go up a creek? They get government bail outs that we have to pay for.
Yes, I own my house, but I have never bought property in the US and here the regulations surrounding it are quite different (at least I imagine) as loans and even things like the number of domiciles you can own in specific areas are highly regulated, and property value seems to be very public here and I’ve never seen wild discrepancies like with the Stewart property…
So, in a sense, it is baffling that something could ever be appraised with such a wide discrepancy - it seems like a very real kind of fraud is happening throughout the US that allows very wealthy people (Stewart, Trump, everybody with money in NYC!) to avoid taxes.
On top of this there is so much about it being a victimless crime, money isn’t infinite, not without hyper inflation. Banks can’t just give endless loans. If this is a widespread practice, it takes away from the working class that try to secure loans for literally anything.
I definitely agree that is an issue - there are actually a lot of crazy issues involving the subsidizing of home loans and other types of loans, and these burdens tend to fall on the middle class… And no, I am not being some capitalist middle class guy with zero class consciousness right now pretending I am a wealthy person who is in the same shoes as Bill Gates because I don’t get housing benefits and own a house…
I am saying:
The middle class here take on a disproportionately large burden funding the home loans of the disadvantaged because the elites here don’t even get home loans
The wealthy pay virtually no property taxes as is, and there’s always a race to attempt to displace them from hoarding & hiding their wealth that we magically can never win.
It’s absolutely a real problem and, fortunately, our last President did make real strides in breaking up real estate speculation and the landlord class but you know how it is… you halfway solve one problem and two more pop up.
Leave it to Tim Pool to completely miss the mark. The issue with Trump’s fraud case differs from this wildly. Trump inflates the assessed market value for an increased capital value to bolster collateral for loans. John Stewart put a giant sticker price on a building and some sucker bought it. Crazy thing about the free market, you can sell a shit sandwich for whatever someone will buy it for. Look at apple products.
The argument is actually that Trump didn’t “lie,” he just did exactly what Jon Leibowitz (Stewart) does:
…
So:
Trump based his own “inflated” numbers for loans on what the actual market value would be and, like Leibowitz, paid taxes at the lower assessed value.
They did the same thing, it’s just that Stewart didn’t use his personal home for a mortgage and thus didn’t acquire one that would have given him a loan at the assumed market value…
Do you see what I mean?
Just so I’m perfectly clear on what you’re saying. You’re trying to tell me that a man who lied about the square footage and the overall assumed market value of his assets to show to lenders that he had overstated his assets for lower interest rates and wider availability of loans from investing companies is the same to someone who sold their building as an absolute premium? The better conspiracy theory argument would have been to say that John Stewart was laundering money.
Again, the free market is the free market. People will pay what they feel the asset is worth. If this guy got suckered into paying such a premium that’s a him problem. Overstating your assets for lower interest rates and wider availability of funds is fraud. He was just found guilty of it…
But you are leaving out a very vital part:
The appraisers were insanely wrong about the market value of Stewart’s old home by a factor greater than 10 not once, but twice: he sold it for $17 mill, it resold for $12 mill. Point being, the actual value of the place was nowhere near what it was said to be by the appraisers, but that is the rate at which Stewart paid taxes, and he should be well aware of that different, or at least potentially have come up with some statement for us subsequent to this…
Now, it would not actually make sense for a banker to have only given a very limited loan to Stewart at a bad interest rate based on the $800k appraisal when it would be clear to someone with their ear actually to the market that the place is work 10x that (easy).
… So, Trump has been sued for fraud based on numbers that are incredibly off what the actual market values are - all for loans obtained in private interactions, some of these loans having already been paid back in full, and none of them being loans that Trump was struggling to payoff…
I fail to see how this is some significant crime against anybody.
But Leftists suddenly love banks and are deeply concerned about whether or not a bank is going to get ripped off, right? lol.
Again, you are conflating the notion that someone who sold items privately on an agreed upon private basis is the same for someone who literally lied about what the asset values they had in their possession to trick banks into offering different better loans.
You fail to see the significant crime because you seem to be hung up on the potential tax difference (of which John Stewart would have paid at the end of the year anyways due to capital gains tax) that these two are paying.
Let’s not sit here and pretend that someone who sold something over valued is anywhere near the same as someone lying about not only the value of the asset but of the assets themselves. I’m failing to see where or how you are drawing these lines as the idea of this post and your stance seems either ignorant or nonsensical. Just because the appraisal district is off by a sizeable margin doesn’t mean that it’s some weird conspiracy for the “witch hunt” of Donald Trump. If anything -again- that sticks out about this is some sort of money laundering scheme.
But the far right suddenly loves the new york times and are deeply incapable of determining the difference between two completely separate instances and trying to conflate the two together.
OK, I have given you a nice upvote because you have kept it civil and I certainly appreciate that.
Just to reiterate my point: I think people should be aware that appraisers can give radically incorrect appraisals of property values, and I think it was very much a victimless crime for banks to agree to give Trump loans for the amounts and rates that they did, which all went off without incident and any real lying. This is all just an attempt to destroy the former President’s chances at becoming President again, IMO.
I also think many on the left aren’t sincerely worried about “muh bankers and their loaaanns! Oh no! Fraaauuudd!” - the usual position (and the correct position) is that they are already engaged in usury and cronyism. How do you defraud that?
Also I am not “far right” - I am post-right. By taht I mean that, yes, sure, I am generally right wing, but I do not believe in the current left/right dichotomy and don’t want to indulge it too much.
Out of curiosity, and I don’t mean this pointedly. Have you ever purchased property? The assessment of appraisal doesn’t matter one way or another. You could easily be above or below it. It’s a fair market value, much like the Kelly bluebook for cars if you’re in the states (I’m uncertain if that’s a U.S. only assessor or not.) it’s a fair value of what the asset should be not the end all be all. Of course it’s the basis for taxes which is super relevant to your argument, I understand and appreciate that, but for much else it doesn’t matter.
Now let me start by stating, I think I understand where your points are. Please allow me to express the issues that I have with them and why these situations are different.
So, Jon Stewart sold his building for an obscene amount over the appraised value. There is a discrepancy among the assessed value, I see that as well. Most appraisal districts go off of a value for proposed areas plus other things like additional structures, refining of current structures (new roof, new windows, paved driveway, etc.) most offices ronco the absolute hell out of these appraisals for years. More often than not within city limits to do any of these things you have to pull permits. Pull enough of them and your house gets reappraised. This is important because the housing market will vary wildly. And yes, I’m aware that they will adjust property values yearly but they only fluctuate based on the current housing market. My guess would be (outside of money laundering that I stated earlier. I never argued the fact that it wasnt ridiculous, just that they aren’t the same.) that there has been several renovations done or a gentrification (or planned) of the neighborhood. We could speculate why it would be so high over the appraised value and I’m uncertain why there would be all the hullabaloo with reporting on it without any investigation. But I digress, selling something to someone who would have a chance to inspect the property, walk it themselves even, so they know what they are purchasing is far and away different from lying about asset values and even lying about the assets themselves to obtain better loans is fraud. On top of this there is so much about it being a victimless crime, money isn’t infinite, not without hyper inflation. Banks can’t just give endless loans. If this is a widespread practice, it takes away from the working class that try to secure loans for literally anything.
But again, the buyer who way overpaid got to go through the ringer when buying the property. The bank could have been up a creek if he didn’t pay. What happens when banks go up a creek? They get government bail outs that we have to pay for.
Yes, I own my house, but I have never bought property in the US and here the regulations surrounding it are quite different (at least I imagine) as loans and even things like the number of domiciles you can own in specific areas are highly regulated, and property value seems to be very public here and I’ve never seen wild discrepancies like with the Stewart property…
So, in a sense, it is baffling that something could ever be appraised with such a wide discrepancy - it seems like a very real kind of fraud is happening throughout the US that allows very wealthy people (Stewart, Trump, everybody with money in NYC!) to avoid taxes.
I definitely agree that is an issue - there are actually a lot of crazy issues involving the subsidizing of home loans and other types of loans, and these burdens tend to fall on the middle class… And no, I am not being some capitalist middle class guy with zero class consciousness right now pretending I am a wealthy person who is in the same shoes as Bill Gates because I don’t get housing benefits and own a house…
I am saying:
It’s absolutely a real problem and, fortunately, our last President did make real strides in breaking up real estate speculation and the landlord class but you know how it is… you halfway solve one problem and two more pop up.