• @NOT_RICK
      link
      English
      152 months ago

      “You made me do this” isn’t just for abusive husbands I guess

        • @NOT_RICK
          link
          English
          82 months ago

          Good one. The argument is still bullshit that disregards the agency of independent states to freely associate with whomever they choose.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            -12 months ago

            it also disregards the fact russia dont want to be crushed by the us without a fight. putin aint a saint but come on

    • @Eheran
      link
      English
      102 months ago

      Instead of this"provoking" I assume NATO should have simply attacked instead? You know, like Russia did over and over again?

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        -62 months ago

        no, NATO/US should have not provoked, simple as.

        russia wanted to join NATO over and over for years.

        • @Eheran
          link
          English
          32 months ago

          Provoke how?

          What about Russias multiple attacks?

          When did Russia ever say they want to join NATO?

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            1
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            ex-nato head said they wanted to over and over again when putin got to power, in the early 2000s, im sure they kept trying for a while. i vaguely remember news about this at the time.

            russias multiple attacks came much much later when it became clear they were actually hostile to russia, and because moscow is in a pretty delicate, difficult to defend location, before the aral mountains. even the soviets had this in mind, almost a century ago.

            damn, the cia knew war on ukraine would eventually happen if they kept pushing by, like, the late 2000s or something? i’m not sure on the timeline on this one.

            • @Eheran
              link
              English
              12 months ago

              Perhaps this read can refresh your memory on wars Russia was involved/started. Perhaps “much much later” turns into “always present”.

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                1
                edit-2
                2 months ago

                if we are bringing other small and unrelated conflicts, perhaps this might give an idea of why russia would be hesitant to let NATO/US do whatever they please around them.

                i suggest you look up the cia involvement i mentioned for more details on your original question though.

                • @Eheran
                  link
                  English
                  12 months ago

                  Unrelated? We are specifically discussing Russia and how they, according to you, went to war “much later” and only after it was clear that “the West was against Russia”. While both were obviously not the case.

                  Calling those small… whatever you want.

                  • @[email protected]
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    1
                    edit-2
                    2 months ago

                    with the west. bad way to turn smaller conflicts into a big nasty war with nuclear threats going around. meddling and escalating and provoking is never the answer to any of that.

                    it does seem like its ending with russia taking a big bite of ukraine over though, all that hamfisted destruction for their enemies to accomplish almost nothing