But hey, it’s your country, just make the lesser evil your hero…
That’s what’s known as a strawman. Voting for Biden doesn’t mean making them a hero or even agreeing with them.
It merely shows that you realise the political reality of the situation which is that this fucked up US system isn’t giving you good options.
People aren’t casting their votes for Biden because they have faith in Biden. They’re voting against Trump.
That is the smart choice for smart Americans no matter how shit Joe Biden is and no matter how much there’s need for a complete political overhaul. You can disagree with Biden despite voting for him. If you don’t, you’re helping Trump and we all fking know what that means.
You are right, still they got you into a vicious cycle. They can shit on you every day as long as there is someone even worse. Imagine the parties sitting together laughing and deciding how bad one has to be to let the other be shown as the good guy. Yeah, stupid I know, I’m not smart. xD
Secondly, the popular vote isn’t what decides the president, and they couldn’t give a toss if the voting-% is 0.
They’ve literally gone against the popular vote several times, last time in 2016 when Trump was elected as president despite losing the popular vote (ie more people actually and literally voted for Hillary Clinton, yet she was not elected president.)
Oh yeah, we do. Our current government is made up of five parties, and then there’s a half a dozen more in the opposition.
The political reality in the US, however, is such that giving your vote to a third party currently would help Trump, because there is no way a third party candidate gets elected.
Need I remind you the US utilises an indirect vote and the electoral college, and that Trump has already won once despite having lost the popular vote.
because there is no way a third party candidate gets elected.
This self defeatist thought process is why it doesn’t work. People don’t vote for third parties, because they think they won’t win anyway, and assume it’s a wasted vote. I live in a blue state, that will always go blue. I vote for who I think is the best candidate, even if it’s a third party. People claim they want to do better than the two party system, but take no steps to vote for anyone but the main 2 parties, which further drives the two party system they claim to hate. If you want to change the two party system, then change it, and stop just talking about it. I’m voting third party this year. Both candidates are bad, and I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils.
Before you get ranked choice voting; tough titties, but you fucking have to play the system how it works. Your system sucks, but pretending everyone is magically just going to pivot to the same direction at the same time is quite frankly unrealistic.
“I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils”
Great, so you really aren’t afraid that Trump will win? You do realise the popular vote doesn’t really matter, the electoral college does? Because those guys aren’t going to vote for third party candidates. The closer the election is (if Trump gets to run in the first place), the harder it will be then to quell the trumpist fucks who won’t accept he didn’t win when the electors go with the popular vote when it’s actually showing a clear winner. Every time that a president won but lost the popular vote, the margins have been close.
Have your ideology, no worries, even act on it. But do you really have to die on this specific hill, which if it happens might lead to Trump being the president. Do you seriously not think some fascist hellhole is possible here? Do you not see the actual risks if that happens?
With ranked choice voting, you wouldn’t need to do that, you’d always get to vote for the best person, but you could put in your second preferred option in case your first one doesn’t get enough votes. In a system like that, your zeal would be highly appreciated. Unfortunately you don’t have one. So put on your activism boots and call your senator or whatever it is you do there to try to affect political change, and try to push through ranked choice voting and then exercise your ideology.
I live in a hard blue state. I, and half of the registered voters in the state could choose not to vote, and my state will always go blue in a presidential election. I will vote with my conscience. Until more people vote for who they actually want, instead of against the other person, nothing will change. We won’t ever have ranked voting, because the Rs and Ds in charge will never put it in place because it could remove them from power. We need to change the way we vote before any meaningful changes can happen. If we keep voting for the 2 major parties, nothing will ever change in that regard.
Oh sugar, you do not know how the mathematical probability behind FPTP and spoiler-effect work, do you?
You don’t have to convince people like me who yearn for being able to vote for other individuals and parties; we just have enough civic knowledge to know that it’s useless until the system changes. And the only way the system will ever conceivably change is through the Democratic party. To do that, you need to stop wasting time with people like us and start helping us to convince the wider electorate that campaign finance / election reform need to occur.
That’s what’s known as a strawman. Voting for Biden doesn’t mean making them a hero or even agreeing with them.
It merely shows that you realise the political reality of the situation which is that this fucked up US system isn’t giving you good options.
People aren’t casting their votes for Biden because they have faith in Biden. They’re voting against Trump.
That is the smart choice for smart Americans no matter how shit Joe Biden is and no matter how much there’s need for a complete political overhaul. You can disagree with Biden despite voting for him. If you don’t, you’re helping Trump and we all fking know what that means.
You are right, still they got you into a vicious cycle. They can shit on you every day as long as there is someone even worse. Imagine the parties sitting together laughing and deciding how bad one has to be to let the other be shown as the good guy. Yeah, stupid I know, I’m not smart. xD
You should all just not vote at all and actually show them how fucked this entire system is.
I’m not American.
Secondly, the popular vote isn’t what decides the president, and they couldn’t give a toss if the voting-% is 0.
They’ve literally gone against the popular vote several times, last time in 2016 when Trump was elected as president despite losing the popular vote (ie more people actually and literally voted for Hillary Clinton, yet she was not elected president.)
You know that you have more parties than your Dems and Reps?
Oh yeah, we do. Our current government is made up of five parties, and then there’s a half a dozen more in the opposition.
The political reality in the US, however, is such that giving your vote to a third party currently would help Trump, because there is no way a third party candidate gets elected.
Need I remind you the US utilises an indirect vote and the electoral college, and that Trump has already won once despite having lost the popular vote.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_in_which_the_winner_lost_the_popular_vote
I’m an advocate for non-partisan politics, but that’s an ideology I have and I understand that it sometimes collides with practical reality.
This self defeatist thought process is why it doesn’t work. People don’t vote for third parties, because they think they won’t win anyway, and assume it’s a wasted vote. I live in a blue state, that will always go blue. I vote for who I think is the best candidate, even if it’s a third party. People claim they want to do better than the two party system, but take no steps to vote for anyone but the main 2 parties, which further drives the two party system they claim to hate. If you want to change the two party system, then change it, and stop just talking about it. I’m voting third party this year. Both candidates are bad, and I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils.
Before you get ranked choice voting; tough titties, but you fucking have to play the system how it works. Your system sucks, but pretending everyone is magically just going to pivot to the same direction at the same time is quite frankly unrealistic.
“I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils”
Great, so you really aren’t afraid that Trump will win? You do realise the popular vote doesn’t really matter, the electoral college does? Because those guys aren’t going to vote for third party candidates. The closer the election is (if Trump gets to run in the first place), the harder it will be then to quell the trumpist fucks who won’t accept he didn’t win when the electors go with the popular vote when it’s actually showing a clear winner. Every time that a president won but lost the popular vote, the margins have been close.
Have your ideology, no worries, even act on it. But do you really have to die on this specific hill, which if it happens might lead to Trump being the president. Do you seriously not think some fascist hellhole is possible here? Do you not see the actual risks if that happens?
With ranked choice voting, you wouldn’t need to do that, you’d always get to vote for the best person, but you could put in your second preferred option in case your first one doesn’t get enough votes. In a system like that, your zeal would be highly appreciated. Unfortunately you don’t have one. So put on your activism boots and call your senator or whatever it is you do there to try to affect political change, and try to push through ranked choice voting and then exercise your ideology.
https://act.represent.us/sign/ranked-choice-voting
I live in a hard blue state. I, and half of the registered voters in the state could choose not to vote, and my state will always go blue in a presidential election. I will vote with my conscience. Until more people vote for who they actually want, instead of against the other person, nothing will change. We won’t ever have ranked voting, because the Rs and Ds in charge will never put it in place because it could remove them from power. We need to change the way we vote before any meaningful changes can happen. If we keep voting for the 2 major parties, nothing will ever change in that regard.
Oh sugar, you do not know how the mathematical probability behind FPTP and spoiler-effect work, do you?
You don’t have to convince people like me who yearn for being able to vote for other individuals and parties; we just have enough civic knowledge to know that it’s useless until the system changes. And the only way the system will ever conceivably change is through the Democratic party. To do that, you need to stop wasting time with people like us and start helping us to convince the wider electorate that campaign finance / election reform need to occur.