Ukraine's military chief on Saturday warned that the battlefield situation in the country's industrial east has “significantly worsened in recent days,” as warming weather has allowed Russian forces to launch a fresh push along several stretches of the more than 1,000-km long frontline.
The point remains. Especially at the start of the invasion we just gave Ukraine old scraps. We did not give them what they needed to win, only to stall.
After the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the U.S. went on a secret buying spree to collect “a small number of Soviet missile defense systems so that they could be examined by U.S. intelligence experts and help with training American forces,” The Wall Street Journal reports. Now, the U.S. is sending some of those air defense systems to Ukraine to help Ukrainian forces shoot down Russian fighter jets and missiles. Ukrainian soldiers already know how to operate old Soviet weapons systems.
The Cold War-era Leopard 1A5 may be old, but it is still effective, Germany says. The country is now training Ukrainian troops to operate the weapons.
The Leopard 1A5 is so old, in fact, that the German trainers had to rely on soldiers from the Dutch and Danish armies — where the model was used for longer — and former German tank drivers who trained back in the 1980s and 1990s. The last time the German army actually taught recruits on the system was in 2000.
Some of the trainers were civilians in their 50s or 60s who took a break from their day jobs to help. “They were really important in getting us going from a cold start,” said Colonel Maulbecker, who normally commands a battalion of modern tanks.
The German government on Thursday authorized Poland to transfer five Soviet-era fighter jets to Ukraine, boosting Kyiv’s ability to challenge Russia by air.
Poland obtained the MiG-29 jets from Germany in the early 2000s, according to media reports. They were originally used by the armed forces in Communist-era East Germany.
And I can go on and on with that list. Even now Ukraine is still waiting for their F16s and it’s probably too late by now.
Ukraine knew how to use it and has the expertise to support it
Not necessarily. There’s a reason they needed training for those old tanks. Germany having to grab some random 60 year old civvies to give the training because it was all rotting away in warehouses exemplifies that nobody wanted to use that stuff anymore and we were glad to ditch it. There’s also plenty of old British and French tanks being used in Ukraine right now.
You are right there is stuff that the Ukrainians had before. But that’s also the problem. We didn’t want that cold war stuff ourselves, we already upgraded from it.
But when it comes to giving Ukraine our modern new equipment we got all stingy about it. It’s not just F16’s. No Reaper Drones, No modern tanks, even the anti air missiles are often old stuff. But we have new stuff! We just don’t want to give it to Ukraine because then “we have nothing to defend ourselves”.
Only recently have we really committed to giving Ukraine some newer weapons. But it’s likely already too late now.
Ukraine got some good weapons. I’m just saying that especially at the start of the war we were very much just dumping old garbage into Ukraine. If we didn’t do a bureaucratic stall for 1-2 years and didn’t allow Putin to get a war economy going but decisively sent modern weapons to Ukaine, Ukraine would have won by now. Russia did not have a good weapons arsenal at the start of the war.
But we did not do that and turned the war into a stall fest. Just barely giving Ukraine enough equipment to hold out while bleeding manpower. Zelensky had to regularly go on trips around the world asking for some modern weaponry.
And now we are finally getting them some new stuff but it’s getting real obvious that it’s just too little too late.
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Sure but it certainly doesn’t take two years.
The point remains. Especially at the start of the invasion we just gave Ukraine old scraps. We did not give them what they needed to win, only to stall.
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We were sending cold war era Garbonzo at the start
Biden is reportedly sending Ukraine old Soviet air defense weapons from America’s own secret stockpile
An Obsolete German Tank Seeks a Second Life on Ukraine’s Front Lines
Ukraine is getting Soviet-era fighter jets from Poland after Germany approves transfer
And I can go on and on with that list. Even now Ukraine is still waiting for their F16s and it’s probably too late by now.
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Not necessarily. There’s a reason they needed training for those old tanks. Germany having to grab some random 60 year old civvies to give the training because it was all rotting away in warehouses exemplifies that nobody wanted to use that stuff anymore and we were glad to ditch it. There’s also plenty of old British and French tanks being used in Ukraine right now.
You are right there is stuff that the Ukrainians had before. But that’s also the problem. We didn’t want that cold war stuff ourselves, we already upgraded from it.
But when it comes to giving Ukraine our modern new equipment we got all stingy about it. It’s not just F16’s. No Reaper Drones, No modern tanks, even the anti air missiles are often old stuff. But we have new stuff! We just don’t want to give it to Ukraine because then “we have nothing to defend ourselves”.
Only recently have we really committed to giving Ukraine some newer weapons. But it’s likely already too late now.
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The patriot stuff is fine. But it took more than one year for Ukraine to get the first ones. Same with the M1A1 tanks
Ukraine got some good weapons. I’m just saying that especially at the start of the war we were very much just dumping old garbage into Ukraine. If we didn’t do a bureaucratic stall for 1-2 years and didn’t allow Putin to get a war economy going but decisively sent modern weapons to Ukaine, Ukraine would have won by now. Russia did not have a good weapons arsenal at the start of the war.
But we did not do that and turned the war into a stall fest. Just barely giving Ukraine enough equipment to hold out while bleeding manpower. Zelensky had to regularly go on trips around the world asking for some modern weaponry.
And now we are finally getting them some new stuff but it’s getting real obvious that it’s just too little too late.
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