I will preface this by saying that six years old is not an appropriate age to undergo any sort of transition, and to say that it is is beginning the conversation in bad faith, so to start, what is the actual average age of those undergoing gender affirming care? Why use an example that is clearly outside of the threshold that is the norm?
I’m not an expert, but thinking about it rationally, sure we have a few ways to start to know. Is it possible for a person to be aware that early? Idk, but I suppose I’d try to start answering that question by listening to :
Trans children who are now adults and can recall their experiences.
Researchers and child development experts who specialize in child development, gender disphoria, and work with such children.
Both groups that are either ignored or not permitted to speak, by conservatives.
Why do they spend their legislative time blocking science? Banning books? Forbidding phrases?
Because they have no intention of listening to evidence. They wanted to suppress in every era of history and nothing has changed. They’re still sore about being wrong about gays not all being demented perverts (and the wider public finally realizing this truth.) Which was the death of their efforts to paint them as pedophiles.
What is infuriating is that the playbook hasn’t even changed, every group they didn’t like : immigrants, blacks, gays, jews, all the same types of claims : “They’ll take your job/property/wife/children/way-of-life, blah blah. Be afraid! Vote for candidate fear!”
In short, whether or not a child of any age can know is something they don’t want to know. Knowing and facing the information could undermine their preconceived notions of what transgender means as a concept. So, whether or not a child can know is information that must be suppressed. Otherwise they may lose some portion of the public that still believes all transgender people are demented child molesters.
…which as an idea that is easy to disapprove or verify. If there was proof it would have been presented, but it doesn’t exist which is why the claims are nebulous and emotional, conservative claims tend to be nebulous and emotional because the people who follow them don’t understand thresholds for evidence and rationally following the scientific process. More democrats do, because this method of thought is part of university curriculums. How to root-cause a problem and see past bullshit, this is a core part of solving large, complex problems, and also allows you to see how transparent those conservatives’ emotional calls to action actually are.
So, sure. We know some, and we could know more. But my question to you, do you believe that conservatives are in good-faith exploring this question and intending to change their behaviors based on the outcome? Or, are they doing something else? Observe them and think about it.
Does a conservative, in good faith, want to know if a child if that age can be gender disphoric? What would they realistically do if this was proven to them? Change their stance? Like they did on… climate change, election outcomes, gay people, black people…? Given above examples we know clearly what they would do. Suppress, deny, deflect.
But, you can still want to know. Pursue this question and do your best to answer it, ignoring people who don’t have expertise in children and child development, and ask what the views of respected scientific institutions are on this matter.
Your opinion matters, it’s the only thing that ever has, or in short, you’re asking the right questions, just be sure to go to good faith experts, and not bad faith politicians, for the answers.
A lot of text to say, “I don’t know, but I know conservatives don’t want to know, and I know where to start in order to get a good faith, non-emotional answer. Hopefully you do too.”
“Gender affirming care” at six is letting them wear what clothes they want and play with what toys they want. And yes, you know you’re the wrong gender that young. Why don’t you ask child psychologists about this instead of random people on the internet? Or look at the studies? There’s no “indoctrination”. There’s supporting children when they make independent choices.
Exactly this. Surgery is not an option from any reputable doctor before at least 18, and even then you’re fighting uphill even if there’s been an established pattern of care for gender dysphoria. At 6, you just let your child wear what clothes they want, play with what they want, and maybe allow them to try out different names if they want. That’s pretty much it. Literally nobody is suggesting hormones, blockers, or surgery for children, and having a lot of trans friends, I can tell you those are difficult to access even for people with long established gender dysphoria.
To start, age matters, actual examples matter. How many cases are there of a six year old under going treatment for gender disphoria? As I understand it, that is far too young and the answer would be zero.
Why do so many conservative examples skew towards children that are beneath the threshold of the actual age of people undergoing treatment? Why not use the actual ages of people undergoing treatment? So there is my first question to you, what is the average age of people undergoing treatment for gender disphoria?
You use words like indoctrinate, would indoctrination include listening to the child themselves? Listening to experts in child development? I’m curious what actions are indoctrination and which are not, this should be clearly defined and easy to reply with, it certainly would clarify matters. So, what is indoctrination? And where is it occurring?
If the problem isn’t “should we treat children with gender disphoria”, as you stated, then what is the problem?
And once again, why do so many examples use unrealistic age ranges? It seems to me that you are being manipulated and rage-baited. And it appears to be working quite well.
If I’m wrong, provide me the actual treatment path that a gender disphoric six year old would follow. If it is occuring , then you should have no issue finding medical guidance for this. Go ahead, I’m curious.
Quoted from your AP link, “These medical treatments don’t begin until the onset of puberty, typically around age 10 or 11.”
But sure, I’ll play your game and focus on the youngest, though that starts on disingenuous footing. Is the six year old questioning and talking, or are they loaded up and immediately converted to the opposite gender. We both know that total gender conversions are not occurring at that age. Talking? Counseling? Sure, I could see that. Now focusing back outside of disingenuous territory…
Wouldn’t the root-cause question be that if harm is caused and if it is reversible? All the information I have seen shows that the methods followed simply delay development in a way that can be harmlessly resumed. It seems to be an exercise in “buying time” before physiology locks one into a gender.
Further, I wouldn’t expect the treatment for a six year old to match the treatment for a seventeen year old. Counseling, discussing, psychiatric evaluation, etc, there are many phases of evaluating before comitting to action.
All I’m trying to do is accurately represent what is occurring.
Gender is complex, every human being that is a male has already undergone a gender transition (we all start as female). And what is interesting, once your physiology assigns you a gender, your body forever attempts to undo that gender assignment, and there is a chemical flag that prevents that undoing. That chemical flag works differently in each individual. In short, our biology doesn’t always lock into a binary selection. As a result of the above mechanisms, some people exist between genders.
But for what reason do people feel the need to demonize the natural outcomes of biology. People aren’t going to stop being born as intersex (previously referred to as hermaphrodites). Intersex people, born with a penis and simultaneously a vagina, exist of all ages, and to forbid them from pursuing treatment creates a prison of their own body. No one outside of the mentally ill wants to abduct and forcibly transition children, that is not what is occurring. If listening to transgender people is a crime, you’re creating quite a large group of criminals.
Disclaimer, I’m not an expert and won’t attempt to pass myself off as one, so the above information should be verified independently. But as a pursuer of information, all of the information I have found quickly dispells the myths being propagated from conservative outlets and I’m not even touching some of the more outrageous claims.
If your comments get removed when you voice your opinion, maybe you aren’t representing the views of modern science but instead are repeating refutable claims that few experts stand behind.
You are falling for conservative lies. You are regurgitating them to the detriment of those around you. Stop it. You are being either exceedingly ignorant or willfully harmful.
To spell out the reality of the situation: The North Carolina institutions are not providing surgeries or hormone therapy to prepubescent children, nor is this standard practice in any part of the country.
At most, prepubescent children transition socially and may receive puberty blockers to ease or prevent serious psychological distress associated with dysphoria, after thorough questioning and therapy. No doctor would ever give a 6 year old AFAB child testosterone, nor estrogen to AMAB. Nor are children being given puberty blockers willy-nilly. It is so fucksake difficult for even adults to be approved for gender diverse care, and you’re out here trying to claim that children are being indoctrinated to think they’re trans and given hormones for, what, fucking fun? Like, holy shit, that’s absolutely unhinged and I cannot possibly believe you are acting in good faith in spreading this complete pile of shit.
I’m genuinely curious at the downvotes to you here, do people really think a 6 year old would know they’re trans?
I have no issues with what someone wants to do with their body but to the above question do people believe this?
I will preface this by saying that six years old is not an appropriate age to undergo any sort of transition, and to say that it is is beginning the conversation in bad faith, so to start, what is the actual average age of those undergoing gender affirming care? Why use an example that is clearly outside of the threshold that is the norm?
I’m not an expert, but thinking about it rationally, sure we have a few ways to start to know. Is it possible for a person to be aware that early? Idk, but I suppose I’d try to start answering that question by listening to :
Trans children who are now adults and can recall their experiences.
Researchers and child development experts who specialize in child development, gender disphoria, and work with such children.
Both groups that are either ignored or not permitted to speak, by conservatives.
Why do they spend their legislative time blocking science? Banning books? Forbidding phrases?
Because they have no intention of listening to evidence. They wanted to suppress in every era of history and nothing has changed. They’re still sore about being wrong about gays not all being demented perverts (and the wider public finally realizing this truth.) Which was the death of their efforts to paint them as pedophiles.
What is infuriating is that the playbook hasn’t even changed, every group they didn’t like : immigrants, blacks, gays, jews, all the same types of claims : “They’ll take your job/property/wife/children/way-of-life, blah blah. Be afraid! Vote for candidate fear!”
In short, whether or not a child of any age can know is something they don’t want to know. Knowing and facing the information could undermine their preconceived notions of what transgender means as a concept. So, whether or not a child can know is information that must be suppressed. Otherwise they may lose some portion of the public that still believes all transgender people are demented child molesters.
…which as an idea that is easy to disapprove or verify. If there was proof it would have been presented, but it doesn’t exist which is why the claims are nebulous and emotional, conservative claims tend to be nebulous and emotional because the people who follow them don’t understand thresholds for evidence and rationally following the scientific process. More democrats do, because this method of thought is part of university curriculums. How to root-cause a problem and see past bullshit, this is a core part of solving large, complex problems, and also allows you to see how transparent those conservatives’ emotional calls to action actually are.
So, sure. We know some, and we could know more. But my question to you, do you believe that conservatives are in good-faith exploring this question and intending to change their behaviors based on the outcome? Or, are they doing something else? Observe them and think about it.
Does a conservative, in good faith, want to know if a child if that age can be gender disphoric? What would they realistically do if this was proven to them? Change their stance? Like they did on… climate change, election outcomes, gay people, black people…? Given above examples we know clearly what they would do. Suppress, deny, deflect.
But, you can still want to know. Pursue this question and do your best to answer it, ignoring people who don’t have expertise in children and child development, and ask what the views of respected scientific institutions are on this matter.
Your opinion matters, it’s the only thing that ever has, or in short, you’re asking the right questions, just be sure to go to good faith experts, and not bad faith politicians, for the answers.
A lot of text to say, “I don’t know, but I know conservatives don’t want to know, and I know where to start in order to get a good faith, non-emotional answer. Hopefully you do too.”
I’d always downvote him bc he’s a conservative troll who just spouts anti-trans bs in general. Unfortunately his name is very recognizable on Lemmy.
Facts, thanks Sync tags, lol
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“Gender affirming care” at six is letting them wear what clothes they want and play with what toys they want. And yes, you know you’re the wrong gender that young. Why don’t you ask child psychologists about this instead of random people on the internet? Or look at the studies? There’s no “indoctrination”. There’s supporting children when they make independent choices.
Exactly this. Surgery is not an option from any reputable doctor before at least 18, and even then you’re fighting uphill even if there’s been an established pattern of care for gender dysphoria. At 6, you just let your child wear what clothes they want, play with what they want, and maybe allow them to try out different names if they want. That’s pretty much it. Literally nobody is suggesting hormones, blockers, or surgery for children, and having a lot of trans friends, I can tell you those are difficult to access even for people with long established gender dysphoria.
To start, age matters, actual examples matter. How many cases are there of a six year old under going treatment for gender disphoria? As I understand it, that is far too young and the answer would be zero.
Why do so many conservative examples skew towards children that are beneath the threshold of the actual age of people undergoing treatment? Why not use the actual ages of people undergoing treatment? So there is my first question to you, what is the average age of people undergoing treatment for gender disphoria?
You use words like indoctrinate, would indoctrination include listening to the child themselves? Listening to experts in child development? I’m curious what actions are indoctrination and which are not, this should be clearly defined and easy to reply with, it certainly would clarify matters. So, what is indoctrination? And where is it occurring?
If the problem isn’t “should we treat children with gender disphoria”, as you stated, then what is the problem?
And once again, why do so many examples use unrealistic age ranges? It seems to me that you are being manipulated and rage-baited. And it appears to be working quite well.
If I’m wrong, provide me the actual treatment path that a gender disphoric six year old would follow. If it is occuring , then you should have no issue finding medical guidance for this. Go ahead, I’m curious.
Removed by mod
Quoted from your AP link, “These medical treatments don’t begin until the onset of puberty, typically around age 10 or 11.”
But sure, I’ll play your game and focus on the youngest, though that starts on disingenuous footing. Is the six year old questioning and talking, or are they loaded up and immediately converted to the opposite gender. We both know that total gender conversions are not occurring at that age. Talking? Counseling? Sure, I could see that. Now focusing back outside of disingenuous territory…
Wouldn’t the root-cause question be that if harm is caused and if it is reversible? All the information I have seen shows that the methods followed simply delay development in a way that can be harmlessly resumed. It seems to be an exercise in “buying time” before physiology locks one into a gender.
Further, I wouldn’t expect the treatment for a six year old to match the treatment for a seventeen year old. Counseling, discussing, psychiatric evaluation, etc, there are many phases of evaluating before comitting to action.
All I’m trying to do is accurately represent what is occurring.
Gender is complex, every human being that is a male has already undergone a gender transition (we all start as female). And what is interesting, once your physiology assigns you a gender, your body forever attempts to undo that gender assignment, and there is a chemical flag that prevents that undoing. That chemical flag works differently in each individual. In short, our biology doesn’t always lock into a binary selection. As a result of the above mechanisms, some people exist between genders.
But for what reason do people feel the need to demonize the natural outcomes of biology. People aren’t going to stop being born as intersex (previously referred to as hermaphrodites). Intersex people, born with a penis and simultaneously a vagina, exist of all ages, and to forbid them from pursuing treatment creates a prison of their own body. No one outside of the mentally ill wants to abduct and forcibly transition children, that is not what is occurring. If listening to transgender people is a crime, you’re creating quite a large group of criminals.
Disclaimer, I’m not an expert and won’t attempt to pass myself off as one, so the above information should be verified independently. But as a pursuer of information, all of the information I have found quickly dispells the myths being propagated from conservative outlets and I’m not even touching some of the more outrageous claims.
If your comments get removed when you voice your opinion, maybe you aren’t representing the views of modern science but instead are repeating refutable claims that few experts stand behind.
You are falling for conservative lies. You are regurgitating them to the detriment of those around you. Stop it. You are being either exceedingly ignorant or willfully harmful.
https://www.factcheck.org/2023/05/scicheck-young-children-do-not-receive-medical-gender-transition-treatment/
At most, prepubescent children transition socially and may receive puberty blockers to ease or prevent serious psychological distress associated with dysphoria, after thorough questioning and therapy. No doctor would ever give a 6 year old AFAB child testosterone, nor estrogen to AMAB. Nor are children being given puberty blockers willy-nilly. It is so fucksake difficult for even adults to be approved for gender diverse care, and you’re out here trying to claim that children are being indoctrinated to think they’re trans and given hormones for, what, fucking fun? Like, holy shit, that’s absolutely unhinged and I cannot possibly believe you are acting in good faith in spreading this complete pile of shit.
Removed by mod