Honestly, to me that seems to be evidence that they were never good but just lucky.
They never understood how to play with expectations or culture. How to shock people with the absurd nature of reality. They never understood comedy. They just happened to say stuff that people liked. Maybe because they were famous? And just as fame makes you pretty, it makes you funny?
I don’t know but clearly they never understood their craft. Pure luck got them away.
The irony here is that your comment seems to suggest that you don’t understand comedy. Comedy is not about “saying funny stuff”, it’s the ability to say anything and make it funny, it takes skill, and above all, it especially requires them to “understand expectations and culture”.
Why do people always find it necessary to undermine the success of someone just because you don’t like something they did? It’s perfectly possible, even likely, that these people who are good at something also have flaws. Are you so surprised by that that you suddenly feel the need to question everything they’ve ever done?
Seinfeld became successful because he was good at comedy, Seinfeld is right that a small vocal woke minority has a negative impact on the profession, and yes a 40 year old dating a 17 year old is questionable. These things can all coexist without coming up with some outlandish theory just to convince yourself that the world is not a complex environment that you can’t wrap your head around.
The irony is that you agree with me that they need to understand expectations and culture while dismissing my point about the lack of understanding the culture and expectations, because otherwise they wouldn’t need to complain about struggling with the expectations and culture of today. You can claim that it is a small minority that creates the issue but if they are actually impacted by the minority than that minority might be the minority of people who used to like their stuff.
There is a “minority” of people that don’t like my posts here. I am not complaining about it. Because it isn’t affecting me and why is that? Because they aren’t my customers. Comedians have the same situation, if the minority aren’t their customers, they have no reason to care, but they do because it is their customers.
So in essence, you agree with the fact that you need to understand expectations and culture for comedy, and I am saying through the fact that they complain about culture, shows that they don’t understand their job and got lucky that they happen to be in tune with the culture of the past because they wouldn’t know how to fit in that culture if they aren’t in it already anyway.
because otherwise they wouldn’t need to complain about struggling with the expectations and culture of today
You only make this ridiculous notion because you happen to agree with the side being argued against. “Don’t complain, everything changes” is something you utter until it is something that *you *disagree with, unless you’re suggesting that you’d be making the same statements about rampant racism and bigotry. It’s OK Russia, go ahead and ban homosexuality, it’s just the expectations and culture of our times!
Comedy has always been about issues in society, and it has long been a platform for free speech with very little boundaries, and it is exactly for that reason that many comedians and people in the media in general highlight the fact that the attempt to make their profession offence-free is problematic.
Comedians have the same situation, if the minority aren’t their customers, they have no reason to care, but they do because it is their customers.
You’re contradicting yourself. On one hand you’re arguing that it’s the current expectations and culture, but at the same time you’re saying it is the minority. The problem is that this vocal minority has such an effect because everyone with an internet connection these days has the ability to ruin someone’s career because they feel offended over a joke, so rather than take a stance for free speech (and comedy) they appease those who make a lot of noise, just to avoid a negative backlash. I think it is a bit easy to dismiss everyone who calls this into question as merely thinking about their own bread and butter. This guy in particular is almost a billionaire, perhaps there’s more to it, but that of course would make it harder to argue against.
I am saying through the fact that they complain about culture, shows that they don’t understand their job
No it shows that you don’t understand comedy, which has always complained about culture. And if there is one thing that woke idealism can’t stand is criticism about itself. Which is exceptionally ironic, because it complains about everything in the name of progress, and in turn is the biggest promotor of cultural regression.
I am not saying criticizing the culture and expectations is morally wrong and should be punished. I am saying if you have an entertainment job and your job is comedy then it is your job to understand the culture and expectations to make funny jokes. They are struggling with “hate” because they experience the criticism that they want to cast on the culture. And they get the criticism because they fail at being a comedian. They don’t understand the culture and expectations of their audience. Unless they do and they aren’t actually bothered by being “cancelled” because they just lean into reactionary politics. Do you see how concluding that someone is failing to adapt to a changing market isn’t the same as saying the change is good. I am sure the housing market in east Ukraine isn’t great and buying a house there now is probably a bad idea, isn’t the same as saying it is good that Russia is invading them.
“Comedy is about criticizing culture” no. There are wordplays. Nothing about them is criticizing culture. There is a kind of comedy that is about criticizing. That doesn’t mean that as a professional comedian, you need to do that. So as a professional comedian, you choose that kind of comedy and then you choose what kind of jokes you want to make. There are many, even political, comedians that criticize the Public, and they don’t get “cancelled”. Because they understand what kind of audience they have. Which as a professional is your job. And lastly there are a few things that you can criticize, you can punch down, straight and up. If you are mad that the “woke” don’t like it when you punish down, which you do as a successful comedian, when you criticize “vocal minorities” or make fun of the struggle of the average person. Then maybe realize that if you want to do that comedy, laugh with the average person and punch up or straight. Remember, you want your audience to think it is funny too. If you don’t like that power from the bottom controls the state, then you just don’t like democracy and that is fair but then I would suggest you fight that before trying to specifically and exclusively save “punch down” jokes.
“You are contradicting yourself” I am not. Let’s say I have 50million fans in America. I am touring and make millions. Then a “minority” of people in America are my fans. I was mocking the use of “minority” because if the small vocal minorities have such a influence on the public that I am losing fans then maybe… Just maybe… It isn’t a minority of people. Or at least the overlap of my fans and that “minority” is pretty big. Maybe you are just out of touch with your audience. And in the end, if people don’t like your act, people don’t like your act. Your act sucks in the “getting good reactions” department.
“Woke idealism can’t accept criticism” mhm ok sure buddy. “Woke” person: “I don’t like this comedian because I think his jokes are offensive” comedian: “I am being cancelled😭😭😭 why can’t they take criticism???😭😭😭 Comedy is about freedom of speech 😭😭😭 why are they taking their liberty to speak and use it to criticize my culture???😭😭😭 They can’t take a joke😭😭😭” I mean the comedians really handle the criticism well. You are right. Cringe “woke” people. Ha.
Honestly, to me that seems to be evidence that they were never good but just lucky.
They never understood how to play with expectations or culture. How to shock people with the absurd nature of reality. They never understood comedy. They just happened to say stuff that people liked. Maybe because they were famous? And just as fame makes you pretty, it makes you funny?
I don’t know but clearly they never understood their craft. Pure luck got them away.
The irony here is that your comment seems to suggest that you don’t understand comedy. Comedy is not about “saying funny stuff”, it’s the ability to say anything and make it funny, it takes skill, and above all, it especially requires them to “understand expectations and culture”.
Why do people always find it necessary to undermine the success of someone just because you don’t like something they did? It’s perfectly possible, even likely, that these people who are good at something also have flaws. Are you so surprised by that that you suddenly feel the need to question everything they’ve ever done?
Seinfeld became successful because he was good at comedy, Seinfeld is right that a small vocal woke minority has a negative impact on the profession, and yes a 40 year old dating a 17 year old is questionable. These things can all coexist without coming up with some outlandish theory just to convince yourself that the world is not a complex environment that you can’t wrap your head around.
The irony is that you agree with me that they need to understand expectations and culture while dismissing my point about the lack of understanding the culture and expectations, because otherwise they wouldn’t need to complain about struggling with the expectations and culture of today. You can claim that it is a small minority that creates the issue but if they are actually impacted by the minority than that minority might be the minority of people who used to like their stuff.
There is a “minority” of people that don’t like my posts here. I am not complaining about it. Because it isn’t affecting me and why is that? Because they aren’t my customers. Comedians have the same situation, if the minority aren’t their customers, they have no reason to care, but they do because it is their customers.
So in essence, you agree with the fact that you need to understand expectations and culture for comedy, and I am saying through the fact that they complain about culture, shows that they don’t understand their job and got lucky that they happen to be in tune with the culture of the past because they wouldn’t know how to fit in that culture if they aren’t in it already anyway.
You only make this ridiculous notion because you happen to agree with the side being argued against. “Don’t complain, everything changes” is something you utter until it is something that *you *disagree with, unless you’re suggesting that you’d be making the same statements about rampant racism and bigotry. It’s OK Russia, go ahead and ban homosexuality, it’s just the expectations and culture of our times!
Comedy has always been about issues in society, and it has long been a platform for free speech with very little boundaries, and it is exactly for that reason that many comedians and people in the media in general highlight the fact that the attempt to make their profession offence-free is problematic.
You’re contradicting yourself. On one hand you’re arguing that it’s the current expectations and culture, but at the same time you’re saying it is the minority. The problem is that this vocal minority has such an effect because everyone with an internet connection these days has the ability to ruin someone’s career because they feel offended over a joke, so rather than take a stance for free speech (and comedy) they appease those who make a lot of noise, just to avoid a negative backlash. I think it is a bit easy to dismiss everyone who calls this into question as merely thinking about their own bread and butter. This guy in particular is almost a billionaire, perhaps there’s more to it, but that of course would make it harder to argue against.
No it shows that you don’t understand comedy, which has always complained about culture. And if there is one thing that woke idealism can’t stand is criticism about itself. Which is exceptionally ironic, because it complains about everything in the name of progress, and in turn is the biggest promotor of cultural regression.
You seem confused by what I meant.
I am not saying criticizing the culture and expectations is morally wrong and should be punished. I am saying if you have an entertainment job and your job is comedy then it is your job to understand the culture and expectations to make funny jokes. They are struggling with “hate” because they experience the criticism that they want to cast on the culture. And they get the criticism because they fail at being a comedian. They don’t understand the culture and expectations of their audience. Unless they do and they aren’t actually bothered by being “cancelled” because they just lean into reactionary politics. Do you see how concluding that someone is failing to adapt to a changing market isn’t the same as saying the change is good. I am sure the housing market in east Ukraine isn’t great and buying a house there now is probably a bad idea, isn’t the same as saying it is good that Russia is invading them.
“Comedy is about criticizing culture” no. There are wordplays. Nothing about them is criticizing culture. There is a kind of comedy that is about criticizing. That doesn’t mean that as a professional comedian, you need to do that. So as a professional comedian, you choose that kind of comedy and then you choose what kind of jokes you want to make. There are many, even political, comedians that criticize the Public, and they don’t get “cancelled”. Because they understand what kind of audience they have. Which as a professional is your job. And lastly there are a few things that you can criticize, you can punch down, straight and up. If you are mad that the “woke” don’t like it when you punish down, which you do as a successful comedian, when you criticize “vocal minorities” or make fun of the struggle of the average person. Then maybe realize that if you want to do that comedy, laugh with the average person and punch up or straight. Remember, you want your audience to think it is funny too. If you don’t like that power from the bottom controls the state, then you just don’t like democracy and that is fair but then I would suggest you fight that before trying to specifically and exclusively save “punch down” jokes.
“You are contradicting yourself” I am not. Let’s say I have 50million fans in America. I am touring and make millions. Then a “minority” of people in America are my fans. I was mocking the use of “minority” because if the small vocal minorities have such a influence on the public that I am losing fans then maybe… Just maybe… It isn’t a minority of people. Or at least the overlap of my fans and that “minority” is pretty big. Maybe you are just out of touch with your audience. And in the end, if people don’t like your act, people don’t like your act. Your act sucks in the “getting good reactions” department.
“Woke idealism can’t accept criticism” mhm ok sure buddy. “Woke” person: “I don’t like this comedian because I think his jokes are offensive” comedian: “I am being cancelled😭😭😭 why can’t they take criticism???😭😭😭 Comedy is about freedom of speech 😭😭😭 why are they taking their liberty to speak and use it to criticize my culture???😭😭😭 They can’t take a joke😭😭😭” I mean the comedians really handle the criticism well. You are right. Cringe “woke” people. Ha.