The women used a hammer and chisel to try to break the glass case protecting the historic charter, which was the first document to put into writing the principle that the King and his government were not above the law.
Haha funny joke but they have a point. They would achieve so much more if they actually did something rather than this sort of thing. There are actual people who are actually trying to implement political policy they could join them. Smashing the case doesn’t seem to achieve anything, by your own emission they didn’t actually break it so what’s the point. They literally did nothing.
This document has at the very least value as an historical artefact regardless of how broken our current system of democracy is. Destroying it just turns more people against their cause.
I understand they’re making a point about how the majority will not vote for policies which help the environment.
Democracy is fundamental to creating a society where people have a say in how politics is done. Are you suggesting the government should push through policies that the majority are against? Even if they did they’d risk losing the next election. Or are you suggesting we get rid of democracy altogether? I’m not sure an autocracy would be a good thing overall even if they were working to improve the environment.
Ultimately the issue is that the majority of people prioritise their current lifestyle over sustaining the environment. Enforcing policies which the majority are against isn’t really a healthy solution to this.
If JSO want to change people’s minds, maybe focusing on educating people and non harmful protests would go a lot further than vandalising stuff and causing disruption.
No it’s not. But it’s also not really related to anything that’s actually the problem or remotely relevant.
I agree with their objectives in the broad strokes, I just question their methods. Every time they are reported about, it’s always because they’ve done something strange and irritating to the general population. They’re not targeting big businesses, or airports, or car production plants, which you would have thought they would have done. No, they’re always throwing paint on something.
I simply object to strawman arguments suggesting that any course of action is a good course of action. No it’s not, it’s stupid if it’s stupid. It doesn’t matter how worthy the cause is. Oh how self-righteous you feel about it.
Messing around with people’s lives doesn’t help anyone, it doesn’t help the cause, it doesn’t help spread the message, all it does is make people hate you. I object to them turning climate activism into some kind of publicity stunt. Publicity stunts require a purpose, these don’t have one, they are simply causing trouble for the sake of it. They know that none of what they are doing will have any impact because they’re not targeting anyone, anything, or any entity that has anything to do with the claimate crisis.
“it” being phasing out oil, and ending excess consumption, i tought it was obvious.
ruining some shitty piece of paper isnt messing with peoples lives nearly as much as climate change is. for some reason people seem to be more defensive of the piece of paper.
if you hate their means of raising awareness, you should have a better means instead of just defending the status quo.
JSO are literally employing cult like tactics where their followers are being told that it’s them against the world (and they have exclusive access to the truth).
No one is denying climate change is an issue the needs addressed. The only thing that is being debated is whether our response is proportionate to the threat. There’s no way that offending ~80% of the population by threatening sacred cows like beloved art and legal documents is a productive approach.
The art and legal documents are the ones the media(who runs oil ads) decide to put on blast. They don’t report when they dump paint on CEO’s cars. I wonder why?
Also, protests are suppose to be annoying. Ignorable protests don’t do anything.
And frankly, there are people dying of heat stroke, crops failing because of unpredictable weather, whole communities getting displaced as sea levels rise or the air dries up. Being mad on behalf for the pieces of paper seems pretty petty.
They hardly claim to have exclusive access to the truth. Just look at the published research by climate scientists for the past 50 years or more.
No one is denying climate change is an issue the needs addressed.
From what I can tell the whole point of these protests is just iconoclasm. These presumably well meaning people have been told that the world is literally ending and that they need to make a statement by (mainly symbolically) attacking objects that other people value.
The climate crisis is genuinely a crisis but it’s not going to be a cataclysm event like Roger Hallam is describing. It will likely play out as a gradual worsening in living conditions as certain occupations become unviable, increasing numbers of freak weather events, and then finally warmer countries becoming unliveable.
All of those outcomes are awful but shock tactics like this aren’t going to convert anyone to the cause.
Just this is bad, very bad in so many ways. Even if you just mean large areas of Africa - where are the people going to go? The current political, economic, etc, etc of immigration will be nothing compared to that - right wing parties get a boost, stretched resources become overstretched, our food supply diminishes. But it won’t just be parts of Africa - southern Europe gets hit by brutal heatwaves now, that is only going to get worse and a lot of our food comes from Italy and Spain. They are some of largest sources of rice, the others are India, Pakistan and Burma, as long as the monsoons aren’t disrupted. If there’s any shortfall in rice production they’ll start reducing exports to feed their own people.
So why are you highlighting their activities and, absurdly, calling it an attack on democracy? You are giving their ‘shock tactics’ publicity (whilst denouncing those tactics as ineffective), claiming to agree with their message, and at the same time accusing them of an entirely different agenda: ‘anti-democratic’. You make no sense.
Having a nuanced opinion means - to me - that understanding that climate change is bad but also understanding that there is a limited amount that we can do as individuals or a country to resolve it.
When I see JSO doing these stunts I worry that they are delegitimising the entire cause of climate change by taking such a hardcore stance. (And seemingly not caring about other societal norms in their protest.)
Edit: Having a right to protest is part of democracy; threatening cultural artefacts most people value is anti-democratic.
JSO once again proving the anti-democratic nature of their movement by attacking a foundational document in our democracy.
deleted by creator
Great! Can’t wait to see them pick up seats at the next general election
deleted by creator
Haha funny joke but they have a point. They would achieve so much more if they actually did something rather than this sort of thing. There are actual people who are actually trying to implement political policy they could join them. Smashing the case doesn’t seem to achieve anything, by your own emission they didn’t actually break it so what’s the point. They literally did nothing.
deleted by creator
This document has at the very least value as an historical artefact regardless of how broken our current system of democracy is. Destroying it just turns more people against their cause. I understand they’re making a point about how the majority will not vote for policies which help the environment. Democracy is fundamental to creating a society where people have a say in how politics is done. Are you suggesting the government should push through policies that the majority are against? Even if they did they’d risk losing the next election. Or are you suggesting we get rid of democracy altogether? I’m not sure an autocracy would be a good thing overall even if they were working to improve the environment. Ultimately the issue is that the majority of people prioritise their current lifestyle over sustaining the environment. Enforcing policies which the majority are against isn’t really a healthy solution to this. If JSO want to change people’s minds, maybe focusing on educating people and non harmful protests would go a lot further than vandalising stuff and causing disruption.
deleted by creator
Bloody, violent revolution 🙌
deleted by creator
its not antidemocratic to want a planet to breathe in.
a piece of paper is not more important than that.
No it’s not. But it’s also not really related to anything that’s actually the problem or remotely relevant.
I agree with their objectives in the broad strokes, I just question their methods. Every time they are reported about, it’s always because they’ve done something strange and irritating to the general population. They’re not targeting big businesses, or airports, or car production plants, which you would have thought they would have done. No, they’re always throwing paint on something.
It’s weird and pointless.
what method are you employing to make it happen?
To make what happen. What is “it”?
I simply object to strawman arguments suggesting that any course of action is a good course of action. No it’s not, it’s stupid if it’s stupid. It doesn’t matter how worthy the cause is. Oh how self-righteous you feel about it.
Messing around with people’s lives doesn’t help anyone, it doesn’t help the cause, it doesn’t help spread the message, all it does is make people hate you. I object to them turning climate activism into some kind of publicity stunt. Publicity stunts require a purpose, these don’t have one, they are simply causing trouble for the sake of it. They know that none of what they are doing will have any impact because they’re not targeting anyone, anything, or any entity that has anything to do with the claimate crisis.
“it” being phasing out oil, and ending excess consumption, i tought it was obvious.
ruining some shitty piece of paper isnt messing with peoples lives nearly as much as climate change is. for some reason people seem to be more defensive of the piece of paper.
if you hate their means of raising awareness, you should have a better means instead of just defending the status quo.
This has nothing to do with the MC so attacking it delegitimizes their movement.
is your movement doing anything better?
anyone doing anything at all is legitimate to me, thats how low the bar is right now.
1 They damaged a case. Not thee document.
2 King Henry did more to damage any actual democracy it ever stood for. Then there actions did.
3 if you are you suggesting their is anything democratic about how our current government runs. You need to find a new dealer.
What’s your favorite boot to lick?
What’s your favourite Kool Aid to drink?
Purple!
Ooh yeah!
I’m not the one in a death cult.
JSO are literally employing cult like tactics where their followers are being told that it’s them against the world (and they have exclusive access to the truth).
No one is denying climate change is an issue the needs addressed. The only thing that is being debated is whether our response is proportionate to the threat. There’s no way that offending ~80% of the population by threatening sacred cows like beloved art and legal documents is a productive approach.
The art and legal documents are the ones the media(who runs oil ads) decide to put on blast. They don’t report when they dump paint on CEO’s cars. I wonder why?
Also, protests are suppose to be annoying. Ignorable protests don’t do anything.
And frankly, there are people dying of heat stroke, crops failing because of unpredictable weather, whole communities getting displaced as sea levels rise or the air dries up. Being mad on behalf for the pieces of paper seems pretty petty.
They hardly claim to have exclusive access to the truth. Just look at the published research by climate scientists for the past 50 years or more.
Plenty of people are. My neighbors for instance.
the question here is why some people here are offended by ruining a piece of paper, but not offended by climate change.
if you dislike their methods whats the one you are employing?
The way things are going, it will be lost any way shortly…
Do you really think them pair had any realistic chance of breaking that glass anyway?
From what I can tell the whole point of these protests is just iconoclasm. These presumably well meaning people have been told that the world is literally ending and that they need to make a statement by (mainly symbolically) attacking objects that other people value.
The climate crisis is genuinely a crisis but it’s not going to be a cataclysm event like Roger Hallam is describing. It will likely play out as a gradual worsening in living conditions as certain occupations become unviable, increasing numbers of freak weather events, and then finally warmer countries becoming unliveable.
All of those outcomes are awful but shock tactics like this aren’t going to convert anyone to the cause.
Just this is bad, very bad in so many ways. Even if you just mean large areas of Africa - where are the people going to go? The current political, economic, etc, etc of immigration will be nothing compared to that - right wing parties get a boost, stretched resources become overstretched, our food supply diminishes. But it won’t just be parts of Africa - southern Europe gets hit by brutal heatwaves now, that is only going to get worse and a lot of our food comes from Italy and Spain. They are some of largest sources of rice, the others are India, Pakistan and Burma, as long as the monsoons aren’t disrupted. If there’s any shortfall in rice production they’ll start reducing exports to feed their own people.
Agree it’s bad. I just worry that JSO are taking the wrong approach in being abrasive instead of trying to win the argument.
So why are you highlighting their activities and, absurdly, calling it an attack on democracy? You are giving their ‘shock tactics’ publicity (whilst denouncing those tactics as ineffective), claiming to agree with their message, and at the same time accusing them of an entirely different agenda: ‘anti-democratic’. You make no sense.
Having a nuanced opinion means - to me - that understanding that climate change is bad but also understanding that there is a limited amount that we can do as individuals or a country to resolve it.
When I see JSO doing these stunts I worry that they are delegitimising the entire cause of climate change by taking such a hardcore stance. (And seemingly not caring about other societal norms in their protest.)
Edit: Having a right to protest is part of democracy; threatening cultural artefacts most people value is anti-democratic.
Democracy is like monarchy. It only works because of magical power tokens.
No shit. You’ve got to be a total shithead to attack such core beliefs of humanity.