They will deny it. They already making sure to get rid of all journalists and refuse visa for new one.

They’re already saying “we had to do it, we’re great”. It’ll take some government toppling before that tune changes.

History and how it went is written by the winners not losers. Germany and the US took those stances because of who lost and who won. As long as israel „wins“ (in whatever definition) it will write its history as a winner.

As the rate of Palestinian children killed by Israel to Israelis killed by Hamas surpasses the infamous 10-to-1 of Nazi killings of random villagers in Occupied France in reprisal for German deaths at the hands of the French Resistance, the pro-Israel propagandists are still calling Israeli actions as “defense”.

This is quite consistent with the last couple of decades of Israeli propaganda: Palestinians and even Arabs in general are always portrayed as “violent” (not Hamas or Hezbullah being violent, rather the entire etnical group is painted as “violent”) and follows the playbook from Goebbels and the one generally used by Fascists (not just Nazis, though in terms of rabid racism, the Nazi kind of Fascism is the closest one to the what’s voiced and the acts of the Israeli leadership and their military) were the target etnicity is painted as “violent” and “attacking us”, thus justifying mass murder as “defense” or “protecting ourselves”.

I expect the history they write will be anchored on that fantasy of “defense”, whitewashing the extreme disproportion in deaths -most of which civilians - that would otherwise make it painfully obvious that what’s being done is far beyond “defense”, beyond even the racist kind of “reprisals” (racist because all Palestinians are made to pay for the acts of the tiny fraction of them which is Hamas) and into “ethnic cleansing” territory.

Today’s evidence will be hard to destroy and deny. Cameras and shit.

Betcha there are people already arguing that it can’t be genocide if you only kill 1% of the population.

They are using it as an opportunity to carry out the pogrom they always wanted to. It’s clear now that the Hamas attack is exactly what Israel wanted.

While Hamas is reprehensible and undoubtedly evil, the blood shed by Netanyahu and his policies would make the entire country of Qatar blush.

It’s manufactured. The US government unquestionably supports Israel and doesn’t wanna threaten their remote military base relationship, so they act to silence dissidents and quench protests, such as by trying to equate criticism of Israel’s government with antisemitism.

Or do majority of people in Palestine actually support HAMAS and the war?

Idk if the majority support Hamas specifically, but most Palestinians support resistance fighters, including Hamas, mostly because peaceful diplomacy with Israel has proven to be impossible.

Is it really a faux-pas? It probably depends on where you live and the people you live amongst. Where I live, it seems like only the extreme right (the successors of the people who helped the nazi’s genocide the Jews) + orthodox Jews support Israel unequivocally. Most others don’t see it as black and white and still consider Palestinians as humans who need hope and prospects, which they’re obviously not getting under Israeli occupation.

The majority of Palestinians in Palestine apparently support Hamas, but it’s likely that they would not be supporting Hamas if Israel had been acting in good faith and not been slowly (a lot faster now obviously, but they were going slowly for years) ethnically cleansing them from Palestine. It’s kinda a chicken and egg situation.

If Rabin had not been murdered by an extremist israeli in 1995, there might have been peace now in those lands, but instead Israel is now being lead by those extremists and they aren’t interested in peace or co-existence.

Coincidentally, there was a recent media event in my country event where a celebrity publicly displayed support for Palestinians.

She had this to say: “Raising a Palestinian flag does NOT mean that I support Hamas or that I hate Jews or that I am okay with innocent civilians - wherever they live - being killed. It means that I want all wars and all genocides to end.” https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/01/08/laura-tesoro-palestijnse-vlag/

Public reactions (in dutch): https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20240107_96484050 The minister Jan Jambon was in his youth a member of the local fascist party and is pretty vocal that he would like his current (more mainstream) party to collaborate in the future with that fascist party. So that he thinks that it is a “faux-pas” to express support for Palestinians, does not surprise me in the least.

Edited because of grammar.

Off course I’d rather live under, and support the dictator terrorists if my other option was genocidal aparthied nazis who force me to live deprived from all freedoms like a caged animal and regularly get bombed.

Yes Hamas is a bad terrorist dictatorship, but they did not kill 1 in every 100 Gazan, and they are only in power because they live in an open-air prison and regularly get bombed by an occupier controlling their food, water, and electricity and keeping them like caged animal.

I mean it is a fact that Hamas has a lot of support at home. They have won elections. This is because they build schools and deliver services at home, and take a defiant stand against Israel. However this all gets collapsed to “Palestinians support terrorism” by the disingenuous, trusting everyone in Gaza with terrorism. I’m NOT saying this is valid - just pointing out how it comes about.

I think the basic reasoning is some form of:

“If you support Palestina, you are against Israel. And you can’t be against Israel, because then you are an anti-semite and that means you support Hitler.”

It’s mainly prevelant in western countries that historically support Israel. I do think a big part of that is some historical shame/feeling the Jewish people are owed something, given the genocide they had to endure in WW2. And of course a touch of geopolitics. And right wing politicians using Israel as a way to position themselves (I guess they hate Muslims more than Jews?).

It was at around 14% not too long ago. Although considering the situation, it has probably increased as a result of the relentless bombing campaigns, restrictions of food, water, electricity, and humanitarian aid

It’s already happening.

That started in 1948

Since no one answered your question. I’ll assume you were just curious about the numbers. It’s easy enough to answer.

Around 23k civilians in Gaza have been killed by Israel since October 7th. On 9/11 2001, around 2.6k were killed in those attacks. So, around 8.8 “worth” of 9/11s.

Given 94 days since October 7th, it would be a “9/11 amount of civilian casualties” every 10.6 days.

Or perhaps:

A “Hamas October 7th” every 5 days. For over 3 months straight.

As this wasn’t a terrorist attack, a closer analogue is a recent war.

One estimate puts civilian casualties in the Battle of Mosul at around 40,000

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/why-the-human-toll-of-the-battle-for-mosul-may-never-be-known

Let me just clarify that this is my sympathy for the State of Israel that I’m talking about, not my attitude toward Jewish people in general who have nothing to do with this.

They definitely got played like a fiddle and did exactly what their enemies wanted them to do.

The ripple effects of this genocide is going to ruin their ability to have normal state relations and any semblance of security for generations.

Israel lost the long game, because they reacted and failed to choose to respond.

Germany killed 60% of European Jews between 1933 and 1945, which is 5% per year or 1.25% every three months.

Israel has killed 1% of Gaza’s population in three months, and if they maintain current pace will be at 4% per year.

So they’re 80% as efficient if they sustain the current rate. Not a huge discrepancy.

Fuck “equally wrong”. They’ve been marching way ahead since before 1949.

You legitimately target Hamas with actual precision attacks. If they’re hiding under a hospital, you go down there and deal with them, you don’t bomb the fucking hospital.

How do you retaliate? That is the question I’d like answered. What is a reasonable and justifiable retaliation to their act?

Retaliation is in the first place a wrong answer, because Hamas’s whole existence is retaliation to Israel’s aggression against Palestinians.

They could do literally anything other than indiscriminate artillery and bombing campaigns. They target hospitals, schools, and refugee camps and you ask “what else are they supposed to do?”

Considering Gaza is inside of Israel technically, and Israeli intelligence is some of the best and most funded in the entire world, the IDF should have a very clear understanding of where Hamas militants are.

The IDF is equipped with all of the latest American toys. They know how to find people that don’t want to be found. They’re just doing genocide.

Politically obviously there’s not going to be electoral punishment in Israel for killing people who cant vote in your elections. This isnt even about retaliation its about retaliation theater. Obviously the people they’re killing mostly had nothing to do with the attacks.

They could drop less bombs but it seems like the Israeli army is understaffed and they’re unwilling to conscript their yahoo settlers and take them away from harassing the west bank to send them to gaza where at least they might kill less children than the neighborhood leveling air strikes.

If the weapon supply line were threatened to be cut off, Israeli politicians would reluctantly dial down the genocide and they’ve even suggested as much. But so far it hasn’t happened yet because whoever stops this will be blamed for the next terror attack (and there will 100% be another one) and will become enemy #1 in Israel.

So Joe Biden is cowardly hoping some european countries decide to do something so he doesn’t become the guy who pisses off the Imperial outpost in the middle east.

I see this argument a lot, and I am absolutely a hardliner on genocide. That said, I am also aware that a second Trump presidency will be the end of our nation as we know it. It used to be so simple when voting for candidates - it was “evil” vs “more of the same”, but now it’s “evil” vs “genocide as a foreign policy.”

What is the exit strategy for us as a nation? How many times can we stave off a Republican presidency? Even voting blue we are slipping right - how many times can we vote for the Democrats until we’ve made so many concessions that the blue guy is just exactly equivalent to the current red guy?

I’m really trying to argue in good faith. If someone has a decent answer to this, I’d love to hear their side. Otherwise it seems to me like we are headed for some kind of civil war in this country.

You think the Trump and the Republicans will be any better?

Ah yes, the classic centrist appeal to esteemed colleagues on the “other side” of the political spectrum. Leave it to Dems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, somehow handing a win to the criminal former president McDrinkBleach

Sigh.

Gaza is under occupation by Israel, according to almost every NGO that matters, including the UN. The war has been going on since 1970.

And before you call it “the biggest massacre of Jews since the holocaust” ask the IDF how many Jews they killed between October 7th and 9th.

Oh yes. It’s always the Palestinians “starting” it. Don’t mind the settlers, the Palestinians arrested and held for years without trial, the random house searches by the IDF, the protestors shot by snipers, the blockade that’s been in place for decades, or anything else.

It’s always their fault, you just have to ignore everything Israel has been doing, right back to the initial terrorist campaign against the British soldiers.

A lot of those dead people probably didn’t actually start the war.

Is Biden an idiot for blindly supporting Israel? Yes.

But every fucking President since Truman has done the exact same thing … including Trump.

So sit down and shut up already.

That’s because they believe that Hamas’s attack on Oct 7 was in retaliation for Israel’s prior actions while Israel is using Oct 7 to retaliate against all of Palestine. Palestinians are going to support the side that is not bombing them and that they believe is standing up to the persecution they’ve experienced up until and including now.

You’d have to be a fucking moron to believe that bombing Palestinian civilians would make them support Hamas less.

We already went over this in WW2. Mass murdering civilians doesn’t break them, it actually increases their resolve. It’s obvious Israel doesn’t give a shit about destroying Hamas since they’re choosing to ignore 80 years of lessons in counterinsurgency warfare.

If someone kills your wife, you aren’t going to think “well gee maybe I should get along with her murderers now”. You’re going to look for revenge or justice, and the only people offering anything close to that in Palestine are Hamas.

Removed by mod

This is to be expected. The past ~20 years has been very bad for diplomacy with Israel. When it Israel actually engages in diplomacy with it’s Palestinian population the population Hamas plummets.

do you have a source with dates for this?

Well duh. What did you think would happen? That they start loving Israel?

You can’t beat people to stop hating you.

You have to realize. They are literally idiots.

They’re in prison, being fed propaganda with no future, too many kids, too many problems no education. It’s hardly their choice unfortunately.

We need to feel pity not contempt.