• Dr. Moose
    link
    English
    75
    edit-2
    11 months ago

    I wonder how Israeli historians will remember this. Will they take take position of Germany and grow or US and justify all the shit because “we had to do it, we’re great”

    • @Doorbook
      link
      English
      6411 months ago

      They will deny it. They already making sure to get rid of all journalists and refuse visa for new one.

      • Dr. Moose
        link
        English
        611 months ago

        Is that even possible with amount of records there are? They can kinda delay and twist the truth for a while but not for long.

          • @Schmuppes
            link
            English
            911 months ago

            Yup. There’s still an outcry any time a foreign parliament declares an acknowledgement of the fact that there was such a thing as the Armenian genocide.

          • @agitatedpotato
            link
            English
            8
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            Japan still denies their share of ww2 atrocities, and I believe the US cut a deal with them for the results of those atrocities.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          811 months ago

          I just hope records are still being maintained. Digital records are fragile if not stored in a cloud.

          • Dr. Moose
            link
            English
            -711 months ago

            I’m sorry what? Digital records, ones you can infinitely and cheaply copy and store are fragile? I’ve been seeing this meme come up now and then and I’m seriously perplexed how. People are literally spending billions to digitize stuff because it’s easier to archive 🫣

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              English
              1211 months ago

              Oops I dropped the laptop.

              Oops the hackers encrypted all my data in a ransomware attack.

              Oops my credit card expired, so my cloud storage didn’t renew.

              Oops I forgot the password to my encrypted thumb drive.

              Oops I lost my micro SD card.

              Oops I dropped my phone in the toilet.

              Oops my photo hosting company went out of business 6 months ago and I forgot to download my photos.

              • lazynooblet
                link
                fedilink
                English
                511 months ago

                Every one of those can be rebutted with a physical equivalent.

                Except with digital you can reply with “it’s okay I had 1000 copies of that document as I know it was important”.

              • Dr. Moose
                link
                English
                -811 months ago

                Just back up? Good luck backing up paper lol oops the elements erased everything 🫣

            • @Maggoty
              link
              English
              311 months ago

              If it’s distributed properly then yeah. If not then it’s actually easier to get rid of than hard records.

              • Dr. Moose
                link
                English
                -211 months ago

                Whatever keep building your strawmen lol

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        111 months ago

        Internationall, it’s a known fact. Of course the current goverment will try to deny it but in some (many) years in a different political context they might acknowledge it… Guess we’ll see.

    • @SlopppyEngineer
      link
      English
      3311 months ago

      They’re already saying “we had to do it, we’re great”. It’ll take some government toppling before that tune changes.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        911 months ago

        it will need a boycott and sanctions on the international level for israelis to change. netty is in power by a coalition of parties that gained voters after this. no consequences, and israelis won’t change their behaviour.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      1911 months ago

      History and how it went is written by the winners not losers. Germany and the US took those stances because of who lost and who won. As long as israel „wins“ (in whatever definition) it will write its history as a winner.

      • Dr. Moose
        link
        English
        -311 months ago

        You give too little credit to the German people.

        Also genocide is critical part of Israel’s existence so I’d be very disappointed if they don’t seriously reflect on this at least. Though I guess you should never underestimate a cult.

        • @rambaroo
          link
          English
          15
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          Too little credit? You can’t seriously believe they’d be in the same state today if they’d won WW2. The only reason there’s been any reckoning is because they lost and were forced to confront their crimes.

          There won’t be a reckoning in Israel because they aren’t going to lose and no one will force them to confront it.

          • @Aceticon
            link
            English
            7
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            Judging by their continued “unwavering support” for Israel, it looks like their “confronting with their crimes” and their “never again” was only ever the racism-preserving “Turns out Jews are like us so we really regret what we did to them” rather than the humanist “Something like this should never be done to anybody again”.

            Certainly Germany’s posture in all this has been the deeply racist “We have to support the Jewish people no matter what” rather than the actual humanist posture of “Mass murdering people because of their etnicity is unacceptable no matter who does it”.

            The Nazis might have been kicked out of Germany by the Allies, but it looks like the cold calculating racist way of judging the worth of people and their right to live, using their etnicity, never left the German Hearth.

            (I’m profoundly dissapointed with German and Germans in this)

          • Dr. Moose
            link
            English
            -211 months ago

            Both statements can be true. Read it again.

            • @rambaroo
              link
              English
              8
              edit-2
              11 months ago

              Read what again? You said nothing other than Germans don’t get enough credit, which is bunk, and then you talked about Israel. If anything, they get too much credit, we are talking about acknowledging genocide. It isn’t something you should get credit for because it never should’ve happened in the first place. And it wasn’t even a choice, outside forces compelled them to own up to what they did.

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                0
                edit-2
                11 months ago

                You are using two very different things interchangeably here: genocide and acknowledgement of genocide. Acknowledgement isn’t the right description in any case, maybe education would be more accurate. Germany „gets credit“ for it, because sadly, in comparison to most other nations, it does it well. And acknowledging this might make others reconsider.

              • Dr. Moose
                link
                English
                -111 months ago

                Really? You shouldn’t credit people for awareness and change?

                Maybe if Americans did that you guys wouldn’t be burning books about slavery lol

                • @Aceticon
                  link
                  English
                  5
                  edit-2
                  11 months ago

                  Germans continued to profess unwavering support for Israel as Palestinian children’s bodies pilled up, so clearly their “awareness” isn’t that “all mass murder of people simply for their etnicity is wrong” but rather the very specific “what we did to the Jewish People was wrong”.

                  The former would’ve been “awareness”, but judging by their behaviour in this what they’ve learned is not that a specific kind of action is wrong but rather that a specific instance against a specific people of acting thus is wrong - or if you will and using a metaphor, they didn’t learn that stealing is wrong, they learned that them stealing from that specific target is wrong.

                  Learning to “Not steal from that person again” when caught and punished isn’t really deserving of much credit.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness
          link
          fedilink
          211 months ago

          Also genocide is critical part of Israel’s existence

          Yep, and they proceeded to do it (partway through) in 1949.

    • @Aceticon
      link
      English
      1211 months ago

      As the rate of Palestinian children killed by Israel to Israelis killed by Hamas surpasses the infamous 10-to-1 of Nazi killings of random villagers in Occupied France in reprisal for German deaths at the hands of the French Resistance, the pro-Israel propagandists are still calling Israeli actions as “defense”.

      This is quite consistent with the last couple of decades of Israeli propaganda: Palestinians and even Arabs in general are always portrayed as “violent” (not Hamas or Hezbullah being violent, rather the entire etnical group is painted as “violent”) and follows the playbook from Goebbels and the one generally used by Fascists (not just Nazis, though in terms of rabid racism, the Nazi kind of Fascism is the closest one to the what’s voiced and the acts of the Israeli leadership and their military) were the target etnicity is painted as “violent” and “attacking us”, thus justifying mass murder as “defense” or “protecting ourselves”.

      I expect the history they write will be anchored on that fantasy of “defense”, whitewashing the extreme disproportion in deaths -most of which civilians - that would otherwise make it painfully obvious that what’s being done is far beyond “defense”, beyond even the racist kind of “reprisals” (racist because all Palestinians are made to pay for the acts of the tiny fraction of them which is Hamas) and into “ethnic cleansing” territory.

    • @badbytes
      link
      English
      211 months ago

      Today’s evidence will be hard to destroy and deny. Cameras and shit.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      2611 months ago

      Betcha there are people already arguing that it can’t be genocide if you only kill 1% of the population.

        • @agitatedpotato
          link
          English
          711 months ago

          Hilarious logic when it comes from a people who’s ancestors survived a genocide. If one thinks it cant be genocide if people survive it, then you gotta ask yourself a loooot of questions.

      • @Maggoty
        link
        English
        611 months ago

        Saw that argument just a few days ago.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        -411 months ago

        Maybe I’m mistaken, but at one point long ago at school, a professor told me that genocide is when one ethnic group kills 5000 of other ethnic group. How many innocent Palestinians has Israel killed so far since Oct 7th?

        • @samus12345
          link
          English
          1011 months ago

          What a ridiculous idea, that a specific number of people being killed is what qualifies something to be a genocide. Genocide is about intent, not numbers.

    • @scarabic
      link
      English
      1411 months ago

      They are using it as an opportunity to carry out the pogrom they always wanted to. It’s clear now that the Hamas attack is exactly what Israel wanted.

      • @Maggoty
        link
        English
        711 months ago

        Don’t forget Netanyahu literally funded Hamas.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      211 months ago

      While Hamas is reprehensible and undoubtedly evil, the blood shed by Netanyahu and his policies would make the entire country of Qatar blush.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    3311 months ago

    Forgive my ignorance, but I was always wondering why is it such a faux pau to show support to Palestine? From how I understand it, and that may be wrong, hence the question, the regular Palestinian people are occupied not only by Israel on the outside, but also by a terrorist group, HAMAS, at home. Which is basically a dictatorship, thats not afraid to openly use terror tactics. It’s a lose-lose situation, and the only thing you can do is hope youre not going to be one of the 1/100 that dies to a random strike.

    When there are innocent people in a situation like that, the least we can do is show them some support.

    Or do majority of people in Palestine actually support HAMAS and the war? I feel like in missing something, because the backslash to people who show an ounce of support for Palestine is massive, and I don’t really get why. I just want regular people who aren’t terrorists to live at peace :(

    • @okamiueru
      link
      English
      31
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      Since no one answered your question. I’ll assume you were just curious about the numbers. It’s easy enough to answer.

      Around 23k civilians in Gaza have been killed by Israel since October 7th. On 9/11 2001, around 2.6k were killed in those attacks. So, around 8.8 “worth” of 9/11s.

      Given 94 days since October 7th, it would be a “9/11 amount of civilian casualties” every 10.6 days.

      Or perhaps:

      A “Hamas October 7th” every 5 days. For over 3 months straight.

      • @TempermentalAnomaly
        link
        English
        2611 months ago

        If you do what Israel was doing, you’d need to scale it on per capita basis. So America is about 330 million and the population of Gaza is about 2.3 million. So the population of America is 140 times the size of Gaza. So 1232 or so 9/11’s.

        • @okamiueru
          link
          English
          811 months ago

          I suppose that makes sense if you want to equate % of civilians. Which is certainly relevant for “how likely it is that I know or am related to someone who was killed”.

          Whichever way the numbers are measured, it is absolutely horrific what Israel is, and has been doing for decades.

      • @okamiueru
        link
        English
        17
        edit-2
        11 months ago

        I’d be willing to bet good money that this is pretty fucking terrorising to the people who live in Gaza.

        It’s also predictable to see your username on every post about Israel doing evil shit. Always taking the apologetic tone. Not to wrap myself in tinfoil, but, you wouldn’t be part of some propaganda machinery, right? Perhaps just a sucker for one?

        Oh, and where were we on the “Do you condemn Israel for its genocide”? Ifs and buts, still, I presume?

        • @DeadHorseX
          link
          English
          -611 months ago

          I’d be willing to bet good money that this is pretty fucking terrorising to the people who live in Gaza.

          This is not, in fact, the definition of terrorism.

        • @SCB
          link
          English
          -1211 months ago

          Removed by mod

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            711 months ago

            Here’s a fun follow up.

            Do you think Israel is justified when by the IDF own admission 2 out of every 3 people they kill are civilians and over 50% of the population in Gaza is under 18?

            What do you feel about the new acronym that has come out of this, WCNSF?

            Understandable that genocide is a sticky term to use, will you admit what they are doing is crimes against humanity?

            • @toga98
              link
              English
              511 months ago

              That sounds like terrorism to me - the unlawful violence against civilians for political reasons.

          • @okamiueru
            link
            English
            6
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            Terrorism doesn’t mean “scary thing.”

            It means a lot of things to a lot of people, in a lot of contexts. There are more than 250 definitions used in academic literature. More interestingly, it’s consistently used by people with significant bias, and inability to understand it from the perspective of “the enemy”. It is a word, after all.

            Now, king of the red herring fallacy of which you are, I’ll just point out that when a state commits war crimes against a civilian population, it’s reasonably well accepted to be considered as “state terrorism”. But, I’m sure you’ll regally conjure a ignoratio elenchi response.

            Not that this ever was a bar needed to pass in order to answer the rather simple question posed. So, to get back to where you sidetracked off from:

            Around 23k civilians in Gaza have been killed by Israel since October 7th. On 9/11 2001, around 2.6k were killed in those attacks. So, around 8.8 “worth” of 9/11s.

            Given 94 days since October 7th, it would be a “9/11 amount of civilian casualties” every 10.6 days.

            But why not use a different unit of measurement. How about:

            A “Hamas October 7th” every 5 days. For over 3 months straight.

            But hey, it isn’t terrorism if it’s genocide, right? But, you’re not sure about that last part. Perhaps it’s not systematic enough to check that box? After all, it’s not like they’re carpet bombing a region with a population density twice that of of San Fransisco, of which half are children. Given the average of 10 civilians killed per Israeli airstrike. There is some randomness for it to not be on-the-nose genocide, but not too much randomness to be obvious acts of terrorism. Just that pleasantly tempered amount of killing of children to argue in bad faith.

      • @Keeponstalin
        link
        English
        1311 months ago

        Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of intentional violence and fear to achieve political or ideological aims. The term is used in this regard primarily to refer to intentional violence during peacetime or in the context of war against non-combatants (mostly civilians and neutral military personnel)

        Sure seems to fit the wiki description at least

        “Kurdish intelligence believes that over 40,000 civilians have been killed as a result of massive firepower used against them, especially by the federal police, air strikes and Isis itself,” Mr Zebari added. Mr Zebari, a native of Mosul and top Kurdish official who has served as the Iraqi finance minister and prior to that foreign minister, emphasised in an exclusive interview that the unrelenting artillery bombardment by units of the Iraqi federal police, in practice a heavily armed military unit, had caused immense destruction and loss of life in west Mosul.

        40k dead in around 9 months, largely from bombing campaigns

        Israel is at around 23k dead in around 4 months, not yet including the potential dead under all the rubble from the residential areas, hospitals, and schools being bombed. Also not including those who will die of dehydration, starvation, and disease due to Israel artificially restricting food, water, electricity, fuel, and humanitarian aid.

        These are also two different situations. Do you think Israel is an apartheid state?

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      111 months ago

      Let me just clarify that this is my sympathy for the State of Israel that I’m talking about, not my attitude toward Jewish people in general who have nothing to do with this.

    • @recapitated
      link
      English
      111 months ago

      They definitely got played like a fiddle and did exactly what their enemies wanted them to do.

      The ripple effects of this genocide is going to ruin their ability to have normal state relations and any semblance of security for generations.

      Israel lost the long game, because they reacted and failed to choose to respond.

      • @effward
        link
        English
        411 months ago

        This is really weird phrasing that pretends that Israel has no responsibility for their actions.

        They chose to do this, they are responsible for what they’ve done.

        • @recapitated
          link
          English
          411 months ago

          Let me be clear. Israel is fully responsible. They were an obvious mark for manipulation (this is Israel’s fault). Because of this, an adversary provoked them, and successfully goaded them into making a genocidal blunder. Also Israel’s fault.

          The Israeli government is unhinged, hateful and fascist and those qualities were leveraged by an adversary. It’s an absolute embarrassment.

  • @unreasonabro
    link
    English
    711 months ago

    Germany was so much more efficient, take pointers you hypocrits

    • @BreadstickNinja
      link
      English
      611 months ago

      Germany killed 60% of European Jews between 1933 and 1945, which is 5% per year or 1.25% every three months.

      Israel has killed 1% of Gaza’s population in three months, and if they maintain current pace will be at 4% per year.

      So they’re 80% as efficient if they sustain the current rate. Not a huge discrepancy.

        • @BreadstickNinja
          link
          English
          411 months ago

          That’s exactly how percentages work. The pre-war population of Gaza was 2.3 million. If Israel kills 23,000 Gazans in three months, then that’s 1% of the population.

          If Israel kills another 23,000 Gazans in the next three months, that’s another 1% of the pre-war population, and Gaza’s population will now be 98% of the pre-war total. And so on.

          If you’re trying to say that percentages can only be calculated in the context of compound rates, then you’re flat-out wrong.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            1
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            If you kill 5% of the population every year from 1933 to 1945, how much of the initial population >you end up killing?

            This is the simple math problem you stated and the answer is 46%, not 60%. Nobody does the calculation the way you do. Or you think that a simple math problem has two contradictory answers? Show me a single example that someone does the calculation the way you do to answer such a problem, you have the whole internet. I accept my error if you find it.

            • DrDominate
              link
              English
              211 months ago

              I think he meant to word it, if you take 5% of the initial population every year for 12 years, how much of that initial population is left, no?

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                0
                edit-2
                11 months ago

                That’s how he made the calculation, but it’s not what he said, because 5% of European jews each year it’s not the same as 5% of the initial European jews. The word initial is absent and in my view that make its numbers wrong. But yeah, may be I’m being too strict and most of you understood what he meant. By I think it’s misleading because it can give you the idea that in general if you have 60% in 12 years you can calculate the percentage for each year just by dividing by 12. And that is certainly wrong.

  • @scarabic
    link
    English
    -1111 months ago

    About 1500 people were killed or taken hostage by Hamas. That attack was horrific and wrong, and sadly Israel has done their best to ensure that their response is equally horrific and wrong. Because their idea of morality is to be equivalent to Hamas, while telling you Hamas is evil. Their thinking is so far up their own asses on this.

    • @okamiueru
      link
      English
      811 months ago

      Fuck “equally wrong”. They’ve been marching way ahead since before 1949.

      • @fastandcurious
        link
        English
        211 months ago

        IDF has been leading the pack for quite sometime

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    -14
    edit-2
    11 months ago

    What is Israel supposed to do? I’m genuinely asking. I’m not implying what they have done is what should’ve happened but I’m genuinely puzzled what the imagined alternative would have been. You don’t react to Hamas’s attack by packing up your shit and leaving. You don’t respond to it by asking what your enemy would like you to do differently so that this doesn’t happen again. You retaliate. It’s blatantly obvious that’s what you do especially since they have a superior military. How do you retaliate? That is the question I’d like answered. What is a reasonable and justifiable retaliation to their act?

    If you catch a kid throwing rocks at windows you don’t shoot them or punch them in the face but you don’t pat them on the head either and give them candy. There are better and worse ways to deal with it here.

    • @chiliedogg
      link
      English
      1811 months ago

      You legitimately target Hamas with actual precision attacks. If they’re hiding under a hospital, you go down there and deal with them, you don’t bomb the fucking hospital.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        -1711 months ago

        Have they bombed a hospital?

        How do you “go down there” exactly? You just walk in and ask where the entrance is? Your solution is quite vague.

        • @unreasonabro
          link
          English
          411 months ago

          Given the level of knowledge you just displayed it appears to be you who is quite vague, what he said was perfectly clear to most of us

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            011 months ago

            I’m only finding articles for the Al-Ahli incident so that’s why I’m asking. I’m not aware of Israel bombing any hospitals but I’m sure you can educate me.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            -111 months ago

            You’re speaking of the incident when a rocket hit Al-Alhi hospital’s parking lot? That is not example of Israel bombing a hospital. It’s quite universally agreed it was a rogue hamas rocket.

        • @Fedizen
          link
          English
          311 months ago

          if they know its there they’ll know how people get in and out of it.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness
      link
      fedilink
      1011 months ago

      How do you retaliate? That is the question I’d like answered. What is a reasonable and justifiable retaliation to their act?

      Retaliation is in the first place a wrong answer, because Hamas’s whole existence is retaliation to Israel’s aggression against Palestinians.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        -1211 months ago

        This in no shape or form answers my question and is exactly what’s frustrating about the situation. I only hear critizism but never solutions.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          411 months ago

          They’re intentionally not answering your question because they find your question invalid and asked in bad faith.

        • @Linkerbaan
          link
          English
          -511 months ago

          No that was the solution. Prisoner deal and then build a two state solution if they were willing.

          But they are not willing. The israelis are Nazis. The only party that is closed to negotiation is israel.

          • @BearFats
            link
            English
            -311 months ago

            Israel is definitely open to negotiation and has made efforts for peace, by allowing Palestinians to work in Israel. Israel has complete economic and military superiority over Palestine/Hamas, and if they really wanted to, they could literally turn Palestine into a beach. But they won’t, because that’s not their goal, unlike Hamas, and many Arab countries, would love nothing more than the genocide of the Jews.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              English
              211 months ago

              if they really wanted to, they could literally turn Palestine into a beach. But they won’t

              How can you say this unironically given the obscene level of destruction Israel has inflicted on Gaza? It’s just completely detached from objective reality.

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                2
                edit-2
                11 months ago

                Israel could do what Hamas would do if they had the capability and that is indiscriminately murder every single person on the other side of the border. Israel never had to enter Gaza in the first place. They could have just bombed down every single building there and flatten the whole territory and snipe every survivor with drones and not lose a single Israeli fighter. They didn’t.

                • @[email protected]
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  011 months ago

                  They could have just bombed down every single building there and flatten the whole territory

                  They’re well on there way to do just that having leveled about a third of all the buildings in Gaza with no signs of stopping the bombing.

                  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/08/the-numbers-that-reveal-the-extent-of-the-destruction-in-gaza

                  Israel has killed over twenty two thousand Gazans. That’s roughly 1% of the population. The vast majority of the survivors have been displaced from their homes.

                  Face the reality, this is exactly what indiscriminate murder and genocide looks like. If you choose to believe otherwise you’re just willfully lying to yourself.

              • @fastandcurious
                link
                English
                -211 months ago

                These people are blind in their hearts and minds, downvote them to oblivion and move on

            • NoneOfUrBusiness
              link
              fedilink
              -211 months ago

              Israel is definitely open to negotiation and has made efforts for peace,

              What negotiation? Remember 2013?

            • @Linkerbaan
              link
              English
              -211 months ago

              Tell that with a straight face to people in the west bank.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      811 months ago

      They could do literally anything other than indiscriminate artillery and bombing campaigns. They target hospitals, schools, and refugee camps and you ask “what else are they supposed to do?”

      Considering Gaza is inside of Israel technically, and Israeli intelligence is some of the best and most funded in the entire world, the IDF should have a very clear understanding of where Hamas militants are.

      The IDF is equipped with all of the latest American toys. They know how to find people that don’t want to be found. They’re just doing genocide.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        011 months ago

        What is this hospital bombing everyone is talking about? Every single article I’m finding is about the Al-Alhi incident.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        -1
        edit-2
        11 months ago

        How do you know they are indiscriminately bombing? How do you know they purposefully targeting civilians hospitals and schools? We’re not talking about Hamas here, which openly has been doing that constantly, for decades. With child suicide bombers mind you.

    • @Fedizen
      link
      English
      7
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      Politically obviously there’s not going to be electoral punishment in Israel for killing people who cant vote in your elections. This isnt even about retaliation its about retaliation theater. Obviously the people they’re killing mostly had nothing to do with the attacks.

      They could drop less bombs but it seems like the Israeli army is understaffed and they’re unwilling to conscript their yahoo settlers and take them away from harassing the west bank to send them to gaza where at least they might kill less children than the neighborhood leveling air strikes.

      If the weapon supply line were threatened to be cut off, Israeli politicians would reluctantly dial down the genocide and they’ve even suggested as much. But so far it hasn’t happened yet because whoever stops this will be blamed for the next terror attack (and there will 100% be another one) and will become enemy #1 in Israel.

      So Joe Biden is cowardly hoping some european countries decide to do something so he doesn’t become the guy who pisses off the Imperial outpost in the middle east.

  • @Linkerbaan
    link
    English
    -2011 months ago

    Genocide Joe going full steam ahead with this through the election. Let’s see how well the Democrats can do winning the Nazi vote.

    • Prophet
      link
      English
      5
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      I see this argument a lot, and I am absolutely a hardliner on genocide. That said, I am also aware that a second Trump presidency will be the end of our nation as we know it. It used to be so simple when voting for candidates - it was “evil” vs “more of the same”, but now it’s “evil” vs “genocide as a foreign policy.”

      What is the exit strategy for us as a nation? How many times can we stave off a Republican presidency? Even voting blue we are slipping right - how many times can we vote for the Democrats until we’ve made so many concessions that the blue guy is just exactly equivalent to the current red guy?

      I’m really trying to argue in good faith. If someone has a decent answer to this, I’d love to hear their side. Otherwise it seems to me like we are headed for some kind of civil war in this country.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        -311 months ago

        I’m not sure that matters when Biden’s support for genocide is making a second Trump term more and more likely. He needs to be differentiating himself from Trump in order to drive turnout. Blindly supporting Israel’s ethnic cleansing campaigns does the exact opposite.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      111 months ago

      Ah yes, the classic centrist appeal to esteemed colleagues on the “other side” of the political spectrum. Leave it to Dems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, somehow handing a win to the criminal former president McDrinkBleach

      • @Linkerbaan
        link
        English
        -511 months ago

        Ah the classic IDF appeal for Genocide Joe.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness
      link
      fedilink
      20
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      Sigh.

      Gaza is under occupation by Israel, according to almost every NGO that matters, including the UN. The war has been going on since 1970.

      And before you call it “the biggest massacre of Jews since the holocaust” ask the IDF how many Jews they killed between October 7th and 9th.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        1411 months ago

        Sigh.

        Was alone pretty much an appropriate response to parent comment. Though I applaud you for your preservation.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness
          link
          fedilink
          511 months ago

          Gotta ask the UN, but stop the blockade for instance. The blockade which started in 2005, not 2007, by the way.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            011 months ago

            Maybe if Hamas would stop making bombs and rockets out of literally anything they can get their hands on, in order to indiscriminately bomb Israel, they’d be more open to lifting the blockade.

            • NoneOfUrBusiness
              link
              fedilink
              011 months ago

              Yeah, like what happened in 2008, where during the ceasefire that required Israel to lift the blockade they explicitly stated they intended to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse?

        • @Maggoty
          link
          English
          311 months ago

          They literally have a strip of land inside Gaza that they shoot people for entering. That’s a child’s definition of de-occupation.

    • @Maggoty
      link
      English
      411 months ago

      Oh yes. It’s always the Palestinians “starting” it. Don’t mind the settlers, the Palestinians arrested and held for years without trial, the random house searches by the IDF, the protestors shot by snipers, the blockade that’s been in place for decades, or anything else.

      It’s always their fault, you just have to ignore everything Israel has been doing, right back to the initial terrorist campaign against the British soldiers.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      1211 months ago

      Is Biden an idiot for blindly supporting Israel? Yes.

      But every fucking President since Truman has done the exact same thing … including Trump.

      So sit down and shut up already.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        611 months ago

        People are responsible for the things they do. And the fact that your electoral system gives you the choice between Genocide Joe and Diaper Donald doesn’t mean there is a good guy between them. Electoralism has failed if this is the choice, and change should be looked for outside of it, you can still vote for whatever candidate is the least bad but don’t be smug about the fact that you did something good and be done for the next four years. If things keep going the way they’re going, there is going to be another Republican president in the future, either Trump or someone more dangerous and competent.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          -411 months ago

          Not my electoral system. I’m not American. Just sick and tired of shitty people hashtagging stupidity.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            311 months ago

            I invite you to read the report sent to the ICJ by South Africa and call that stupidity. Now is the time to act while we can still stop an ethnic cleansing or worse.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              English
              -711 months ago

              I replied to someone hashtagging Biden, not SA’s report to the ICJ that I happen to agree with.

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                4
                edit-2
                11 months ago

                Biden can stop it today if he wants, either by withholding weapons or by direct intervention (although an embargo would probably suffice). But the fact that the US is STILL sending weapons is nothing less than direct complicity. People have been shot for less during the Nuremberg Trials.

          • @rambaroo
            link
            English
            0
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            It’s telling that you think it’s shitty to call out genocide enablers.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness
        link
        fedilink
        -1011 months ago

        Uh… No. Biden is uniquely horrible in this. He’s going above and beyond what most other non-Trump presidents would do.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    -5311 months ago

    Yet Palestinian support for the Hamas terrorists just continues to grow. So weird thinking it’s 2024, and they’re having a fucking religious war over there.

    • Zoolander
      link
      English
      3411 months ago

      That’s because they believe that Hamas’s attack on Oct 7 was in retaliation for Israel’s prior actions while Israel is using Oct 7 to retaliate against all of Palestine. Palestinians are going to support the side that is not bombing them and that they believe is standing up to the persecution they’ve experienced up until and including now.

      • @Doorbook
        link
        English
        1011 months ago

        “Ukraine: It’s Not ‘Retaliation’ When You’re Fighting for National Survival”

        I just saw this title on lemmy underneath this post.

    • @rambaroo
      link
      English
      22
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      You’d have to be a fucking moron to believe that bombing Palestinian civilians would make them support Hamas less.

      We already went over this in WW2. Mass murdering civilians doesn’t break them, it actually increases their resolve. It’s obvious Israel doesn’t give a shit about destroying Hamas since they’re choosing to ignore 80 years of lessons in counterinsurgency warfare.

      If someone kills your wife, you aren’t going to think “well gee maybe I should get along with her murderers now”. You’re going to look for revenge or justice, and the only people offering anything close to that in Palestine are Hamas.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        111 months ago

        Sort of justifies what Israel is doing to Gaza in response to Hamas going after civilians. Oh, but not that way, right?

        • @Maggoty
          link
          English
          2
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          Israel is the one with the power to stop. They’ve been committing acts of war against Palestinians and a slow rolling genocide for decades. The natives forming a resistance group does not justify the actions of the colonists.

            • @Maggoty
              link
              English
              111 months ago

              Crack a history book. The side with less power never stops for being oppressed. It’s not in the human psyche. And oppressors claiming victimhood the entire way through a genocide is the number one excuse for commiting a genocide.

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                -111 months ago

                Your language choices continue to fascinate. It’s like a college freshman starting to realize there is a wider world out there and thinking their insight is unique.

                • @Maggoty
                  link
                  English
                  111 months ago

                  Funny. Considering I’ve probably got quite a bit more education on the subject. After having fought in a war it was an intersection of particular interest at college. But you go on with the Ad Hominems.

      • @unreasonabro
        link
        English
        111 months ago

        you would think this wouldn’t need to be explained so much, eh?

    • Tedrow
      link
      English
      911 months ago

      This is to be expected. The past ~20 years has been very bad for diplomacy with Israel. When it Israel actually engages in diplomacy with it’s Palestinian population the population Hamas plummets.

    • @Fedizen
      link
      English
      111 months ago

      do you have a source with dates for this?

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      -111 months ago

      Well duh. What did you think would happen? That they start loving Israel?

      You can’t beat people to stop hating you.

    • Dr. Moose
      link
      English
      -2611 months ago

      You have to realize. They are literally idiots.

      They’re in prison, being fed propaganda with no future, too many kids, too many problems no education. It’s hardly their choice unfortunately.

      We need to feel pity not contempt.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        611 months ago

        I agree with you, with the exception that Palestinians are actually known for being a well-educated population.

        • Dr. Moose
          link
          English
          -15
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          Being educated and supporting Hamas just doesn’t compute. Even if you are politically brain damaged to think the only solution to Israel problem is to kick every jew out Hamas is so incredibly incompetent that no one with a single brain cell could possible support this organization.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            411 months ago

            Being educated and supporting Trump just doesn’t compute. Even if you are politcally brain damaged to think the only solution to America’s problem is to kick every Mexican out Trump is so incredibly incompetent that no one with a single brain cell could possibly support him.

            • @unreasonabro
              link
              English
              111 months ago

              being educated and being Clarence Thomas doesn’t compute either but the world is in an absolute fuckhole state, there’s no hand on the till and the rich are just making sure they’ve got all of theirs so they can hold out as long as possible against the zombie apocalypse, which will just be hungry people. That’s the real dark side to such stories.

              They could have stopped it but they’re just choosing to hunker down and not give a shit, and they will die just like the rest of us because of it

            • Dr. Moose
              link
              English
              -411 months ago

              My point stands.

              • @Maalus
                link
                English
                011 months ago

                No it doesn’t. It’s a weird jump in logic that makes no sense. The commenter above you even gave you a US example of the same way of thinking. There are plenty of educated people voting for conservatives in the US. They aren’t “idiots” as you’ve put it.

                • Dr. Moose
                  link
                  English
                  -311 months ago

                  Why do you think they aren’t “idiots”? I’d argue that they very well are :)