• @carl_dungeon
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    3110 months ago

    I knew horses were brought over in the 1500s, but I didn’t realize they had previously been here! I wonder what the primary cause for extinction was- climate? Disease? Predators?

    • Hegar
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      2810 months ago

      Homo sapien expansion after the last glacial maximum is a strong contender, but my understanding is that we don’t yet have enough data to rule out environmental changes, or sufficient resolution to really prove it was us.

      The most convincing argument I’ve heard points out that Africa - where we evolved - has more surviving mega-fauna than any other continent. If animals who had more evolutionary time to develop strategies for coping with humans are way more likely to survive, that strongly suggests we played a large role.

      It’s an area of ongoing research without a definitive answer though.

    • ExtraPartsLeft
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      2410 months ago

      Not only had they previously been here, they evolved here first and migrated out through Siberia when it still connected the continents.

    • @[email protected]
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      610 months ago

      The interesting part is that they evolved in America, crossed over to Asia (and from there to Europe and Africa) through the Bering land bridge, and then went extinct in America together with the American megafauna (possibly because of overexploitation by recently arrived humans, possibly due to climate change, possibly a combination of both), only to be reintroduced later on.

        • @[email protected]
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          510 months ago

          People. The secret ingredient is people. Pretty much any large species of mammal (or bird) that went extinct in the past 10.000 years or so was hunted to extinction.

  • Hegar
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    2210 months ago

    We had some camels too! I don’t know how close they were to what we think of as camels today, but apparently they were closer to Eurasian camels than to South American species life llama or alcapas.

    • [email protected]
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      1410 months ago

      North America also had Cheetahs (called Miracinonyx), which is why Pronghorns are so fast. No current predator can chase one down. They are over-built now.

      • @[email protected]
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        810 months ago

        but recent studies suggest that it was not specialized in chasing like the cheetah was since it retained retractable claws that would have crippled its ability to run fast. Instead, it was more closely related to the cougar, and at least M. trumani might have employed a hunting behavior that has no modern analogues, suggesting that it running fast like the cheetah is a common misconception

        From your link

        • [email protected]
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          910 months ago

          Yes, I read that after posting the link. That is new info to me. I previously read that the existence of pronghorns, with their massive speed/acceleration, was evidence that this cheetah likely was fast as well, as they wouldn’t have need to evolve that speed without a predator putting pressure on them to do so. This contradicts that somewhat.

      • @[email protected]
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        310 months ago

        As someone who used to go pronghorn hunting with my drunk uncles, they still have one predator.

        • @shalafi
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          210 months ago

          We prefer to be called “drunkels”. Thank you.

        • BarqsHasBite
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          310 months ago

          They literally evolved in North America, and when they went to Eurasia across the Bering land bridge they became an invasive species to Eurasia.

          • Nougat
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            -410 months ago

            For a species to be invasive, it has to be transplanted rapidly by people into an ecosystem. Horses naturally and slowly made their own way to Eurasia and became extinct in the Americas, until they were suddenly brought back to the Americas by the Spanish … making them invasive.

            • BarqsHasBite
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              10 months ago

              Lol no it doesn’t need to be by people.

              invasive species noun

              Any species that has been introduced to an environment where it is not native, and that has since become a nuisance through rapid spread and increase in numbers, often to the detriment of native species. 
              

              It can be by you know a land bridge like the bering land bridge that was not previously there.

              Horses literally evolved in north america and are thus a native species to north america. They are not a native species to Eurasia and are thus an invasive species to eurasia.

              At this point I think I’m going to say cheers.

  • Nyssa Sylvatica
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    -110 months ago

    I’ve heard some indigenous people say that horses never went extinct in North America pointing to the fact that although Spanish horses were released in NA in the 16th century, 17th century European explorers documented great plains tribes with advanced horse cultures which would be hard to attribute to a handful of releases from the 16th century expeditions.

    • @[email protected]
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      1310 months ago

      In fairness it only took like 30 years to develop advanced car culture.

      The utility of the horse and the breeding and lack of predators would’ve made them pervasive in no time.

      • @[email protected]
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        410 months ago

        Also, most existing indigenous civilisations had collapsed due to genocide and the diseases imported by the European invaders. It was literally a post-apocalyptic scenario. The survivors were basically Mad Maxing it, only cars hadn’t been invented yet so they had to use horses.