Fuck Trump, he didn’t even show up to the Republican primary debates. If Biden debates him it’ll just give Trump more speaking time and publicity.
At this point, it’s just hard to believe there are many people who are actually undecided. I’m sure there are lots who say they are. And it’s really more about Trump than about Biden. Of the people who would ever consider voting for a Democrat, some love Biden, some aren’t excited by him, a few hate him. There’s a whole spectrum. With Trump, I think it’s more binary, even among Republicans. They generally love him or loath him. I’m not sure I’ve heard anyone recently say “Hmm, that Trump guy says some things I like, but I’m not sure if he has my vote or not.”
I guess what I’m saying is that I doubt a debate would change anyone’s mind unless one of them said something to really alienate their base. “I want to see them discuss their differences on foreign policy before I decide.” I don’t think so. It’s probably more risk than benefit for either of them.
The undecided voters are probably the ones considering jumping from Biden to 3rd party over current hot buttons (e.g Palestine) than any ever would be Biden to Trump or vice versa.
Yeah, could be. So maybe the question is, would a debate make those kinds of people more or less likely to jump?
Maybe if they’re paying attention while Donald is talking about needing a “final solution” for the conflict they might realize he’s not their man after all.
It seems Biden has started pivoting on Israel support. Slowly, and certainly not definitively, but he’s been calling out Netanyahu when he hadn’t before.
Depending on how fast this turn around happens a debate could probably swing a lot of 3rd party voters back to him. If he rips off the bandaid and admits that Netanyahu is in full ethnic cleanse mode.
It’s gonna be wild if those people upset about Gaza cost Biden the election and Trump ends up in office again.
I’m not American, and really don’t want another 4 years of the insanity Trump brings but I’m just so fascinated by the Leopards circling around faces waiting to pounce…
10% being undecided imo is just people not willing to admit they’re voting for Trump. Looney Toons.
10% being undecided imo is just people not willing to admit they’re voting for Trump. Looney Toons.
Literally had someone say to me the other day “Basically I’m voting for anyone who isn’t Biden”. And then later his mother said she couldn’t visit family in Mexico “because of all the chaos at the border”. The kool aid has been drunk, and they’re hooked on it.
I don’t think you have to worry about it. While Trump claims he wants to debate, he will refuse when offered, whining about the “liberal media’s” rules that he finds unfair (which will probably include the ability to cut his mic when he resorts to his only strategy of talking over everyone else).
Recently answered this in another thread: by debate Trump means he will childishly shout over anyone he’s on stage with constant bullshit and juvenile rhetoric - no thanks. having seen trump in debates I honestly question anyone silly enough to try, he’ll never ‘debate’, he just gish gallops bullshit until his minders come to change his diapers.
Unfortunately “debates” are always moderated by spineless curs who are too cowardly to cut a mic or even question a blatant lie.
Yup, ‘moderator’ in the last few have been useless talking heads.
we need Pop-up Video for politics.
Supreme Court can’t make you engage with an insurrectionist. Diapered coward is not a legitimate candidate for office, don’t work to legitimize him by going through the motions of what the non-traitors do while running.
“We’re gonna pass on Donny’s circus. I’ve got a country to run and also, I’d feel guilty taking his focus away from prep for whichever of his 90 criminal charges he’s whining about in court this week”
I do not think this opinion is unpopular lol
I believe it’s currently unpopular. It may become more popular though the closer we get to the general election though.
It is a catch 22 for Biden he doesn’t debate Trump - he looks weak. They hit him on being old and weak. He debates Trump - Trump look like a more legitimate candidate and Trump get to hijack the debate to spew bs.
Not debating is probably the better of the two but both is a loss. The best Biden can do is try to say that Trump won’t debate on good faith but that despite being true will only get so much traction.
Biden should just require that the border bill passes before the debate.
In terms of a bill making it through congress, Biden has zero say in the matter until it reaches his desk.
You would think Trump has zero say in the matter, but the speaker of the house followed his instructions.
I completly agree. Trumps not running in good faith.
I actually agree. Analogies about mud wrestling with a pig and playing chess with a pigeon come to mind…
And then there’s the added problem of giving him false legitimacy by acting like he’s just another legitimate candidate rather than a career criminal fascist conman who should never have been allowed anywhere near ANY public office.
I agree, he should do what Trump did in the primary and skip 'em. Also, I think they would probably hurt him more than help.
The problem is if Biden doesn’t debate Trump Trump can use that on the campaign trail. Probably a lot more usefully than if he didn’t have that argument of “Sleepy Joe’s too scared”. They’re both old af. In their heads probably neither of them wants an open debate.
What we need is 2024 SOTU Biden mopping the floor with him but who knows how likely that is.
if Biden doesn’t debate Trump Trump can use that on the campaign trail
And if he DOES, Trump can use a twisted version of something Biden says at the debate, no matter how it goes.
When you’re dealing with someone who has no compunction about just making shit up and whose cult following will believe him literally no matter what nonsense he spews, “that would give him ammunition” is never a good reason to do or not do anything.
What we need is 2024 SOTU Biden mopping the floor with him
As I touched on above, even if that DOES happen, Trump will still twist it into a win for himself. Reality and truth simply don’t matter to him and his cult and pretending that it does gets us nowhere.
You’re right that is not a good compass on what to do. My personal opinion on why there should be a debate either way is because without conversation humanity is just lost in general. A conversation with Trump may not ever be something worth having content-wise but in the arena of politics I’d say it’s sort of a baseline. When we dehumanize him and his base (as in they’re not worth talking to) like he dehumanizes everyone that doesn’t dream of sucking on his fascist tiddies then we’re really no better in that regard.
Biden couple days before his SOTU said “let’s get the border bill passed together” towards Trump and that’s what this country needs badly. Literally turning the other cheek. No one except Trump is to blame for the collective mental disorder his sycophants are suffering. He is a cancer which unfortunately cannot (yet) be cut out of the system it leeches from so this needs to be accepted as reality and dealt with accordingly. There is no winning with cancer but when treated correctly it can be “beaten”. His brain won’t be in good shape come November. Something’s got to give eventually. His body. His indictments. His fines. Man probably has less net money in the bank than your average Joe rn but he won’t give up his grip on the (thanks to him) neofascist republican party so easily.
without conversation humanity is just lost in general.
Bad faith conversation is worse than no conversation, though, and Trump has no faith but bad faith.
A conversation with Trump may not ever be something worth having
I can guarantee you that it will never be worth having. Nobody being told anything by anyone is literally better than anyone being told anything by Trump, an idiot savant of weaponized disinformation.
When we dehumanize him and his base (as in they’re not worth talking to)
Some humans are not worth listening or talking to no matter what. Donald Trump and those of his supporters who uncritically accept anything he says as truth are all amongst those people.
There’s literally nothing positive to gain from communicating in good faith with deranged cult leaders and cult members who only communicate in bad faith.
then we’re really no better in that regard.
False equivalence. Not listening to a fascist cult that thrives on disinformation and is 100% closed off to any information that differs from their xenophobic groupthink isn’t discourteous and anti-democratic. It’s pro-democratic common sense self defense for your brain.
Biden couple days before his SOTU said “let’s get the border bill passed together” towards Trump
Which was a huge mistake. You don’t achieve anything positive by negotiating with fascists or terrorists. Trump and his supporters are both.
that’s what this country needs badly
Couldn’t possibly disagree more! The more we pretend that Trump and his ilk are legitimate opposition arguing in good faith, the more we debase every relevant institution, including democracy itself.
Literally turning the other cheek
Is a god-awful idea when dealing with fascists, pun intended. Try researching how that worked out for Neville Chamberlain and the liberals of 1920s Italy.
No one except Trump is to blame for the collective mental disorder his sycophants are suffering
That’s not true. The “grown-ups” keep letting the patients leave the ward, put on a suit and pretend to be hospital administrators. The point of unethically enabling them was passed many years ago.
He is a cancer
No. He’s a tumor but he’s not the underlying cancer. The enshittification of the GOP has been underway for decades with nobody doing anything major about, making the ascension of someone like him inevitable.
Ignoring the cancer while letting the tumor occupy a space meant for a healthy organ like you’re suggesting doesn’t heal the body politic. It kills it.
cannot (yet) be cut out of the system
False. If not for supposedly well-meaning liberals like yourself, he would have been powerless already. You and the DNC leadership seemingly care more about trying to uphold the form of the status quo than protecting the society it’s supposed to help.
this needs to be accepted as reality and dealt with accordingly
Sure, but pretending that completely unhinged habitual fascist liars are legitimate opposition is not dealing with or even accepting reality. It’s almost halfway as delusional as actually being part of the cult.
There is no winning with cancer but when treated correctly it can be "beaten
You deal with cancer, which by eliminating it from the system, not by acting as if it isn’t killing all healthy tissue it’s allowed to get to.
His brain won’t be in good shape come November.
It hasn’t been in good shape since the 80s at the latest. Hasn’t stopped people from falling for his bullshit yet, won’t in November.
You’re part of the reason why he didn’t become irrelevant at least 8 years ago.
It’s quite the classic how it is so often assumed that one holding a discussion on the internet (not just about American politics) in English must be American. But I’m sure even knowing that I’m not it won’t take you long to come up with a readymade label for me like you do and put on display somewhat overbearingly. Trust me I’ve been to the ol’ Reddit rodeo before it bit the moral dust and I’ve been so to the tune of over a decade. Not trying to flex I’m just saying whatever it is you’re trying to accomplish (and I’m not assuming bad faith at all here) it’s not worth what you’re willingly forfeiting in terms of potential connection with other people. I’ve been that guy you’re currently choosing to be. I’ve lived inside that quote-by-quote-rebuttal brain.
You’ve arranged your space of neat little drawers and boxes of attributes and analytics so you can have the “correct” opinion on virtually anything at a moment’s notice. Let me be the guy to tell you that all you’re doing is playing yourself, cheating yourself out of god knows what it is that you truly seek. You think the reason no one is meeting you on par in your place is because next to none possess equivalent clarity when looking upon the world and its affairs. The reality is that most people - regardless of eloquence or level of reason - just aren’t going to have that conversation because it’s not worth what’s given up in the process. As humans we strive for connection with our peers. But no one ever said that it’s a contest of whoever has the least peers in verbal exchange gets a master debater placque on top.
If you want to see entire groups of people as beneath you or label them domestic terrorists or what have you, of course no one’s gonna be able to stop you. But maybe also apply at least some amount of self-reflection here and there along the way. Through countless points made you don’t have but one solution in store. All you have are subjective conclusions to say that X is bad and Y + Z are to blame. And if Y or Z try to have a conversation about it then they are surely just as bad as X, which they caused of course. I unsarcastically hope that people of your intelligence find the right channels to focus their energies on.
Yeah, I started to read your novel of a reply to a 4 day old post, but then realized it’s not worth my time and effort. Find someone else to lecture at after the fact.
Sorry that my usage habits don’t conform to your recency standards of holding a bilateral conversation. Wondering at what point after the latest (greater than zero effort) comment in the chain criticism becomes a one-way street for you.
Donald is going to call him Sleepy Joe, and the cultists are going to be “lid” this and that regardless. Donald has been an incoherent lying dumbass since forever and they haven’t clued in to that yet.
If asked, he should just say,“Insurrectionists can’t hold office anyway. What’s the point?”
Trump is clinically insane
Dementia/syphilis brain rot
It’ll just collapse into one side devolving into name calling and disconnected phrases, while the other party is trying to speak. The moderator wont shut down the man child because ratings. At this point both sides have already firmly made their choice - these are people we already know.
Yup. Look at the last debate between the two: Trump doesn’t debate, he interrupts, shouts over, and gish gallops. You can’t debate someone who has no intention of respecting the process.
Donald showed up specifically so he could expose Biden to coronavirus. A less cowardly network would have threatened that he must uphold the rules on distancing or they’ll give the spot entirely to Biden.
I hope to high heaven the debate happens, just so I can watch Trump glitch out, mix up Biden with Obama, and shit his depends on stage.
Biden should challenge Trump to an old fashioned duel. It Biden wins and Trump is killed, he can claim presidential immunity…
No, no that is a terrible idea. It will just make Biden look old. He needs to challenge him to laser pistols at dawn. That way he looked young and hip.
Then they’ll complain he’s got to much energy (weapons).
I don’t think he should, but even if it happens, he will destroy him. Biden might be struggling with his age, but he has more than enough mental acuity left to push many of the attack vectors trump has opened on himself.
