- cross-posted to:
- technology
- cross-posted to:
- technology
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Government politics/regimes aside, this is terrible, as information and knowledge needs to be shared and accessible. Today, we enjoy access to all of humanity’s knowledge in our pocket. If a segregated internet becomes reality, information and knowledge will become divided and only available to those who has access to it; there’s no guarantee who will be the ones losing access, and neither of which will be a desirable outcome.
I’d have no problem with this if it meant their trolls stay the fuck off our Internet and leave us alone, but we know that’s not going to happen.
I’d have no problem with this if it meant their trolls stay the fuck off our Internet and leave us alone
One imagines that it might have some negative effects on people in Russia, not all of whom are trolls.
It may also have secondary effects on people outside Russia if the leadership wants to do something that people outside Russia don’t much like, but where public opinion in Russia is a constraint on them. If Russia builds a system that is aimed at constraining the public’s view of the world, then presumably the views of the public will shift towards whatever the people who are presently running the government in Russia prefer.
The Russian trolls are leaving! That’s good.
The AI trolls are coming! That’s bad.
What a shit show. A land with so much potential gone to waste.
Yes, but they’ll probably end up finding a way to join china’s and set up a protected internet where war is peace, freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength".
Though knowing russia it will probably be closer to “An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded” followed by “Get 'em boyz! Dakka dakka dakka! WAAAGH! THE ORKS! WAAAGH!”
They’ve been going on about that for years now, and last I heard about it, they said it would cost too much to implement or something like that? Can’t remember now.
What we need is some way to make a distributed/p2p alternate meshnet backbone across borders ^.^ - much harder to control the internet when other physical links are available.
Have a look at i2p and yggdrasil. Sounds a bit like that’s what you’re looking for.
Yep! Im actually somewhat familiar with those :)
I mean more we need a way to run either cables or a very long series of wifi relays into and out of these countries. Perhaps using something yggdrasil-adjacent for route autoconfig ^.^ nya.
Alternate hardware outside of state control or influence :)
There’s a kind of ad-hoc, portable wifi system in Cuba like this, I believe. I might be thinking of something else though.
You also have IPFS. Is that what you mean? It is slowly becoming better and better.
IPFS is pretty neat (though I think bittorrent is better due to content locality and speed, but that’s just my experience). I’m more talking about starting up hardware for alternate network paths - for instance, chained together wireless or wired routers - outside the existing internet backbone to get across the borders of these countries that want to cut off the internet nya
Presumably, you’d do this in combination with some kind of mesh network router (like yggdrasil) capable of organising discrete connections into a proper network without a central authority, so that many people can autonomously build up this kind of alternate routing backbone.
Basically, right now, anti-censorship efforts are in a constant back-and-forth war between censors and the anti-censorship groups. This is because it is far too costly for a country to completely blackout communication from the wider internet, at the minute, but many of the countries doing this are continuously working to make that more viable. However, should it become viable for a country to disconnect all cables linking their internet to the outside internet, they have the technical means to do it by physically cutting the cables.
They know where the cables are and control them - that is part of how the censorship is implemented after all nya. Current censorship resistance techniques essentially are an armsrace between trying to make it so their filters don’t detect your “forbidden” connections, and the censors trying to improve their filters without unacceptable levels of economic and social damage (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateral_freedom)
The less their economy and population depends on external services, the more aggressive and broad-spectrum they can be in cutting off external connections, because the harm from the collateral damage is reduced. What these countries want to do is reach a point where the collateral damage from cutting off the wider internet is small enough that they can cut the cables and block all connections. You can’t actually evade that within the current model of censorship/filtering resistance, because at that point it’s basically like those connections don’t even exist and hence can’t be traversed by any mechanism nya.
What I’m proposing is we build alternate pathways out that don’t depend on these cables. For example, either our own cables, or a chain of wireless nodes capable of building paths through the network autonomously (this is what a meshnet is). Because these alternate routes out would not be state-controlled, and presumably operated in a distributed manner which is hard for the state to locate, censorship becomes physically impossible without essentially containing your entire country in a sphere of RF interference (which would destroy basically all modern life), and building a massive, constantly monitored perimeter of sufficient depth to check that no-one has laid secret cables or whatever.
One other example of a potential route out is Starlink-style satellite internet, except a mesh network of satellites rather than it being controlled by any singular entity. But that’s essentially a larger-scale version of the “massive number of small-scale wireless nodes” idea. Hell, to improve censorship resistance you could do something with Li-Fi networking too, or mixed cable-wireless networks, or anything. The most important part is that you can build routes in- and out- of a country that the country’s government can’t easily locate or shut down ^.^
Ah, on that note, a while ago, I also bookmarked: https://cwtch.im/ I think that is the same of what you mean. But thanks for bring collateral freedom and yggdrasil to my attention. Good food for thought.
I am a bit curious how such a decentralized network would function in terms of performance (especially in the case of many wireless nodes because you need quite some to cover large distances). You can ofcourse use them to get internet over the border of a country that blocked it but I find it hard to imagine how that would function on a larger schale
This won’t fly in Russia. Everyone already uses a VPN. They tried to ban telegram and it didn’t take. Russians won’t accept this. I think a lot of people in the west think Russia is an autocratic dictatorship but they’ll revolt if they’re not happy.
I wish I had your optimism.
IMO the only thing that would get that country to revolt, to the point of creating real change, is mass starvation.
Oh no, don’t take my Russian porn!!!
