- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- israel_palestine_pol
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- israel_palestine_pol
From June 1 to June 11, Israeli forces killed over 800 Palestinians and wounded over 2,400 as they carried out bombardments and raids across Gaza, Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) reported. This is an average of over 72 Palestinians killed each day at the hands of Israeli forces.
This includes Israel’s assault of Nuseirat refugee camp on Saturday that killed 274 Palestinians, including 64 children, and injured 698 others, with Israeli forces carrying out one of the most deadly single attacks of their genocidal siege so far in order to retrieve four Israelis held hostage in Gaza. The attack was carried out on a bustling civilian center in the middle of the day, raising questions about whether Israeli forces violated international law.
The 11-day death toll also includes at least 70 Palestinians killed and over 300 wounded due to heavy Israeli shelling in central Gaza on June 4, MSF said; and at least 40 Palestinians killed and 74 wounded on June 6, when Israel bombed a UN school-turned-shelter in Nuseirat. The killings of hundreds of Palestinians in other Israeli attacks, ranging across southern, central and northern Gaza, in the first days of June have otherwise been largely ignored by news outlets, and are hardly documented by official sources.
Behind each death is a horrifying story of a Palestinian who lived through months of displacement, constant bombardment, hunger and likely the loss of family members, bearing witness to the 37,000 people killed by Israel in Gaza over eight months just to themselves be killed by Israeli forces. Survivors recall horrors, like children who recount being pulled out of the rubble of their homes, and the pervading smell of death.
You must log in or register to comment.
Cunts
I wonder who downvoted you. Must either not be an Aussie, or a zionist cunt.
In the case of an Aussie Zionist, it’s 50/50. Or Schrödinger’s Cunt, if you will.
Dr. Schrodinger: As you can see, zhere is no vay of knowing if ze cat is Australian until you look inside ze box.
Cat, from inside the box: Cunt
Dr. Schrodinger: Shut up
I want a limited tv series based on your comment. One of those “one season only on purpose so we don’t have to attempt to top this” comedy series 😁
I can’t imagine this ever settling down. How could they ever become neutral let alone good neighbours ever after all this that Israel has been doing to Palestine during the past half year??!
It was bad before but this is unforgivable!
The end goal is near-total eradication of the natives. Similar to native americans in the U.S. Israel is a settler state, much like the U.S was, and actively drove the natives out of their homes. They’re almost done though, we’re seeing some of the final acts of the ethnic cleansing/genocide.
Once there are barely any left, they’ll feign sympathy to garner support, and that’ll be that. Another win for imperialist settler states. Nothing unique or special about it.
I’m sure there are plenty of Israelis that want to do this even if they won’t admit it to themselves but this isn’t the final anything. The IDF has killed around 37,000 Palestinians out of ~2.3 million. That’s horrible but nowhere near the “barely any left” stage.
A genocide on the scale of millions takes industrial effort to accomplish. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, but given Israel’s reliance on foreign aid, current industrial capacity, and political position, it seems unlikely. My guess is Israel will take some more territory and the conflict (kinda tough to call the IDF bombing almost exclusively civilians a war) will peter out. Foreign aid will be allowed back in and Israel will put its mask back on.
Personally, I don’t see how this doesn’t end with half the middle east actively going to war with Israel if they don’t stop soon. The only thing really keeping them safe is the US, and Israel has burned a lot of political capital here. Their leaders are awful, power-hungry shits, but they’re not stupid. If they don’t try to rebuild some of that capital, there’s every chance that Israel loses its lifeline.
What comes years after things die down, I don’t know. Gazan sentiment towards Israel was already overwhelmingly negative before this, but the IDF has never done anything on this scale before. I don’t think Israel can allow Gaza any type of self-governance for decades after this. This is beyond even post-WW2 Japan levels of destruction, and unlike Japan every nation around them is still on their side.
They’ve already bombed the vast majority of Gaza and resettled people, and the next step is almost certainly another expansion of the settler state of Israel.
Most of the millions of people that live in Gaza have been resettled into a very small area. Whether Israel decides to nuke them or force them into neighboring countries as refugees is irrelevant to their end goal of settling the territory. The Palestinians are just “rats” that need to be removed.
I’m sure they’d prefer to nuke them and just get rid of their problem once and for all; a final solution of sorts. However they do have limited political capital in this conflict, and nuking the remaining civilians does have the potential to negative impact U.S-Isrsel relations. So there’s a real chance they opt for just pushing the “human animals” out of the territories.
It will be the ultimate irony when Israel finally carries out its own Holocaust of millions.
The actual death toll is likely 200,000+ over the last 8 months.
The 37,000 number is only bodies that have been identified, cases of starvation and disease are also excluded.
And this is from march!!!
Not sure where that 200k number is from. The article you linked doesn’t say that and I haven’t seen a number that high reported anywhere myself. All the info I have seen bounds the estimates between 30k and 50k killed, either through active combat or through disease/malnourishment/injury.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker
Ralph Nader saying that he thinks the death toll is over 200k is not a reasonable source to cite. The 30-50k estimates from most sources are already appallingly high. There’s an active contingent of Ben Shapiro types trying to convince everyone what Israel is doing is fine, don’t give them ammo to cast doubt on the official death count.
The death toll was frozen for weeks and 1.1 million people have been experiencing acute famine as well as the entire 2.3 million having no access to healthcare in the middle of an active genocide. The official estimates are incredibly low.
I accept the official death count but to ignore what they aren’t counting, which I’ve listed above also does a disservice to the realities on the ground.
Since November we’ve been hearing every day how “famine is imminent.”
Still haven’t seen it.
Still haven’t seen it.
and you certainly won’t since you’re obviously not there, in Gaza
Maybe that’s because people more concerned than yourself have been risking their lives and going to great effort to inject aid to keep it away for one more day, one more day.
Nah it’s because Israel has been letting the aid in through their border and steadily ramping up capacity.
In your imagined scenario, why does Israel let any food in at all?
The US and international pressure. So optics basically. Kind of like how they made ‘efforts’ at peace and a two-state solution over the past decades just to show they were trying. Those deals involved things like all the Isreali settlers remaining in Palestine, continuing to live under Isreali laws despite living in Palestine and for the IDF to be the defense and security forces for both countries. Or things like all the arable land going to Isreal and Palestine getting cut up into multiple enclaves.
Isreal has been obstructing aid from crossing the border for the longest time. The US even started airdropping stuff in because the Isreal was disrupting aid convoys from crossing into Palestine. They even had to start building a pier because Isreal wasn’t letting in any aid. After a lot of international pressure Isreal relented and stopped deliberately screwing up the aid convoys. Except the moment that happened settlers suddenly started knowing when and where every aid convoy was crossing into Palestine and started attacking them.
Modern day trail of tears… except the killing is easier.
Ya know, it sucks that you’re right.
It’s easy. Hamas can be destroyed and the surviving 99% of Gaza can move on with their lives.
The 35,000 Gazans killed already comprise 1.6% of the population. The 85,000 injured comprises another 4% of the population. Thousands of children have already experienced severe malnutrition that will lead to stunting and lifelong effects. So no, 99% of Gaza will not be able to “move on.”
Rounding difference aside, yes, the stunting and lifelong effects of malnutrition especially in a population as adolescent as Gaza, which existed prior to the present state of war, too, right?
Also, yes, sometimes when a state actor, or even a quasi state actor, as it is, starts a war, it exacerbates existing problems with food security. The singular reason that Gaza didn’t have famine rival to that of Darfur prior to the current state of War is the generosity of the West enabled Hamas to plunder Gaza for generations such that Gaza’s primary export became international terror.
Hamas caused and continuez to cause the present state of war by starting it and then refusing to surrender or follow any international law whatsoever. Criminal enterprises have no legitimate right to statehood, or to make demands for diplomacy. It’s almost as if the present state of things is exactly what Hamas hoped for on October 6.
Gaza should have people in charge that will not take billions of dollars from Iran and other “Group of Friends” countries and use every penny to build the most elaborate tunnel system the world has ever known while it’s people grow up malnourished as you’ve described, and instead spend some of it on food infrastructure. This is what people mean when they talk about UNRWA and certain NGOs being an obstruction to peace in Gaza; the people of Gaza wouldn’t tolerate, let alone aid and abet Hamas, if they had to bear the actual consequences of Hamas, such as the food insecurity invited by Hamas by having turning not just its air, water, and land ports of entry into instruments of a criminal enterprise, but every school, hospital, and apartment building along 450 miles of tunnels, too, decade after decade.
How many more millions of Gazan’s should live and die malnourished anyway under an actual far right fascist regime?
Oh my mistake, 98.4%, not 99%.
Give me a break with the hysterics.
Hamas expert or Hamas synoathizer? Ridiculous take. It’s a criminal organization and can and will be eliminated. Israel is going to do it or it’s going to continue to blockade and force Gaza to do it itself. Surely the people living there are getting tired of how it’s going under Hamas’s leadership.
Yes, ridiculous,
Hamas is an ideology. It’s a movement that’s committed to the liberation of Palestine. That ideology within Hamas is cloaked in an Islamist garb, but that ideology is not limited to Hamas. So even if Hamas militarily is severely hit by Israeli actions now, that ideology will reemerge because that’s grounded in the political principles of the Palestinian struggle. So this military approach is really just a way to avoid dealing with the root cause of the problem.
Oh fuck off
Lemmy.world detected, opinion rejected
You should check which community you are currently participating in
Israel committting an Oct7 every single week.
Israel kills more children than Oct 7 every single day.
deleted by creator
Be fucking accurate
They approximately are, you just can’t read. They claimed there’s an Oct 7th per WEEK, not per day. If you divide your final number by 7, you get approximately 40k, which is very close to the 35k+ VIOLENTLY murdered by Israel since Oct 7th (not counting all the thousands that have died since as a consequence of hunger and preventable diseases).
35k+ VIOLENTLY murdered
What other kind of murders besides violent are there?
Besieging a city, turning it into an open-air prison, and preventing trade, business, and even humanitarian aid to cross the border. That leads to misery, unemployment, starvation and disease. Those are murders if you ask me.
Turns out, you’re the actual jackass.
36 children were killed in total on Oct 7. This includes israeli friendly fire.
More than 15.000 children have been killed in Gaza since then.
15000/253 = 59 children killed by israel per day
Almost double of Oct 7. Each day. And I’m probably undercounting the Palestinian children and also counting all israeli friendly fire.
40.000/253*7 =1107 Gazans killed each week by israel.
Slightly under the 1136 on oct7.but substract the at least 70 confirmed friendly fire casualties from israel and it is more. And I’m not even sure why we’re including the 373 IDF soldiers in the 1136.
deleted by creator
Side note:
Do a little investigative reading regarding Israel and their part in the killing of Armenian Christians. Chit is wild.
A little investigative reading?
They are openly allied to Azerbaijan, supply it with most advanced weapons, and Israel’s puppet organizations like the ADL have historically went out of their way in Armenian Genocide denial.
When the argument that recognizing any other genocide insults the Holocaust victims soured completely, they started working by diverting and diluting attention from that subject.
Israel is consistently allied with genocidal and totalitarian powers (not states, rather factions and ideas), because their “business model” as a state is one of selling indulgence papers. Criminals get their reputation whitewashed by supporting Israel, and are interested in supporting Israel even without any direct payback, because it’s like a lightning rod for anything else.
One doesn’t have to investigate it, they are not hiding it.
That is a giant number. Wow.
Wait until you find out the actual death toll is likely 200,000+ over the last 8 months.
The 37,000 number is only bodies that have been identified, cases of starvation and disease are also excluded.
This. Not talking about starvation and disease, which are the most common causes of death during conflicts like this (especially in this case where Gazans are subjected to inhumane conditions), is simply doing a favor to the genociders.
I’m sure this time, unlike the prior times in the last 5000 years, slaughter will bring lasting peace
/S
Well, at some point, it will work, when there’s no one left on both sides to start again.
but they saved three people!
deleted by creator
Thank god for religion
Any estimate of how many of those were Hamas?
Removed by mod
Hundreds per week
Is Hamas continuing to hold hostages really worth all of this death?
Hamas is refusing to agree to a ceasefire and release the hostages. So the death an destruction continues. How many more people will die while people far away from the conflict romanticize Hamas as noble “freedom fighters”?
Hamas has agreed to a permanent ceasefire and hostage release for months. Israel has refused anything other than a temporary pause, because they want to bomb Gaza regardless
How many more people will die from this violent Apartheid State commiting genocide?
Where did you hear this from? A website that shows you photos of crying Palestinians with a “donate” popup over it? Or from a monetized TikTok channel?
How many people have to die before people stop sending money to Hamas billionaires in Qatar that profit from the suffering of Palestinians (along with TikTok and many other sites)?
Where did you hear this from?
Reuters, BBC, AP Newswire, NYT, CNN, NBC, NPR, ABC, MSN, Yahoo, Sports Illustrated, Cat Fancy, the extremely Jewish deli at the corner, and every reputable news source on planet earth is reporting this.
Where are you hearing your news? Did they also try to sell you horse paste, colloidal silver elixir and survival powder?
Your comments are a textbook illustration of how every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation. Never in history has a conservative entered a discussion in good faith. Never.
(Here comes the fake “bUt i’M NoT a CoNsErVaTiVe! cHeCkMaTe dUmMy!” in 3…2…)
Now you’re just making things up and going full ad hominem.
You’re wrong and you know it.
You have offered no defense, which is consistent with the amount of effort and honesty you’ve put into this entire exchange.
What do you hope to accomplish here on Lemmy, by the way? Serious question. Based on your comment history, your whole account seems dedicated to spreading Israel/Palestine misinformation. I freely admit to being dedicated to calling out the bullshit of conservatives (as I am doing now), but you seem to be pretending to just be a regular user who happens to post almost exclusively in defense of Israel. Suspicious is too light a word to describe the nature of your dedication to defending Israel here on Lemmy. And I say this as a Jew myself.
ata lo khakam maspik kdey laavod bmosad. Может быть, вы работаете на кого-то другого, да? Ou peut-être que j’ai mal compris et que vous aimez juste trop boire Molson.
It’s obvious for anyone paying attention to the news. If you check the Ceasefire History, you see it every week.
Oct 9 2023 - Hamas official says group is open to discussions over truce with Israel - Reuters
Oct 16 2023 9:41 AM - Israel denies ceasefire in place to allow entrance of aid to Gaza - Times of Israel
Oct 27 2023 - Hamas official demands ceasefire for hostages to be released - Fox News
Oct 31 2023 - Fighting in Gaza intensifies as Netanyahu rejects calls for cease-fire - CBS
Nov 5 2023 - Israel rejects ceasefire calls as forces set to deepen offensive - Reuters
Nov 14 2023 - Hamas’ armed wing says it is ready to free 70 Israeli hostages in return for a 5-day cease-fire - Business Insider
Nov 23 2023 Temp Ceasefire Begins 24th
Dec 1 2023 Temp Ceasefire Ends
Dec 8 2023 - U.S. vetoes ceasefire demand as UN secretary general warns Gaza ‘at breaking point’ - CBC
Dec 12 2023 1:31 PM - U.N. General Assembly votes in favor of cease-fire resolution 153-10; U.S. and Israel vote against - NBC
Dec 20 2023 - Hamas insists on end to Israel’s offensive in Gaza before hostage talks can begin - The Guardian
Dec 25 2023 - Hamas, Islamic Jihad reject Gaza gov. overhaul for permanent ceasefire, Egyptian sources say - Reuters
Jan 3 2024 - Hamas says there must be a permanent ceasefire deal in order for remaining hostages to be released - CNN
Jan 10 2024 - US defends its veto of call for Gaza cease-fire while Palestinians and others demand fighting stop - AP News
Jan 22 2024 - Hostage talks continue as Israel rejects Hamas demand for full IDF withdrawal and a permanent cease-fire - NBC
Jan 31 2024 - Netanyahu rejects Hamas conditions for ceasefire, refuses to release ‘thousands of terrorists’ - India TV
Feb 7 2024 - Hamas ceasefire proposal details - Reuters
Feb 14 2024 - Gaza cease-fire and hostage release talks appear to stall as Netanyahu and Hamas trade blame - AP News
Feb 20 2024 - US blocks ceasefire call with third UN veto in Israel-Hamas war - Reuters
Mar 6 2024 - Officials say Hamas has continued to press Israel for a commitment to a permanent cease-fire after a multistage release of all hostages, but Israel has refused. - NY Times
Mar 22, 2024 - Why Biden Proposed a UN (temporary) Ceasefire Resolution That Was Vetoed by Russia and China - Time
Apr 3, 2024- Hamas sticking to ceasefire conditions including Israeli Gaza pullout - Reuters
Apr 9, 2024 - Hamas says Israeli proposal fails to meet demands, but is under review - Reuters
Apr 15, 2024 - Hamas Offers Phased Release of Israeli Hostages After Six-week Gaza Cease-fire - Haaretz
Apr 26, 2024 - Hamas ‘serious’ about captives’ release but not without Gaza ceasefire - Al Jazeera
May 4, 2024 - Report: Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending - Haaretz
May 7, 2024 - What’s in the three-phase ceasefire deal Hamas backs, but Israel does not? - Reuters
May 15, 2024 - Hamas chief says Israeli amendments on ceasefire proposal led to deadlock - Reuters
May 19, 2024 Why has an Israel-Hamas ceasefire been so elusive? A timeline of key moments in the search for peace - The Conversation
May 31, 2024 - Hamas says it ‘positively’ views Gaza ceasefire proposal set out by Biden - Reuters
June 4, 2024 - Hamas wants Israel to commit to permanent ceasefire, full withdrawal from Gaza - Reuters
June 11, 2024 - UN Security Council adopts a cease-fire resolution aimed at ending Israel-Hamas war in Gaza - AP News
A lot of Hamas viewing a ceasefire deal “postively” but not actually agreeing to anything realistic.
Right now Israel has agreed to the US proposed ceasefire deal. Hamas once again are saying they are looking at it “positively” without agreeing to it. The UN Security Council has a binding resolution which Hamas is ignoring now.
Ever consider that the people that brutally murdered over a thousand people in a day might be capable of lying? They talk a lot about wanting a ceasefire but it’s all just talk. There’s a ceasefire agreement in front of them right now… and there’s just more talk from them.
Damn he did all that work to help you… I have a friend just like you. They send me videos of these clowns on YouTube that tie the most random events together to come to the most insane conclusions. Like trivial to disprove stuff. And they turn their channels into little echo chambers by pruning everything out of the comments that isn’t “Thanks for speaking the truth!”
Whoever your YouTuber is, they are lying to you.
I keep up on the news. I’ve read most of those things before… when they happened.
You may feel like if you can show people the information you’re getting from a youtuber or tiktoker will convince someone. But you didn’t consider that someone that doesn’t get their news from youtube and tiktok may have seen these things already along with some other information that your favourite youtube/tiktok personality didn’t tell you about.
Social media just isn’t a good news source. You’re getting a filtered version of events. Read the newspaper every day, you’ll be informed about things beyond a narrative from someone trying to appease an algorithm.
Israel isn’t a good news source. You clearly don’t read anything else. News articles, human rights reports, and books written by Historians who have exhaustively researched this conflict all disagree with you.
Year before Oct 7 - Jewish Voice for Peace
2023 is ‘deadliest year’ for Palestinian children say human rights groups (Oct 6th)
HRW Events of 2022 and HRW Events of 2023
Reports about how Israel is an Apartheid State:
B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
New Historian Aricles on One vs. Two State Solution:
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
Ever consider that the people that brutally murdered over a thousand people a day might be capable of lying?
How are you so willfully ignorant that you can’t recognize how this applies to Israel, who has killed tens of thousands of people, the vast majority of women and children, and also injured three times as many people.
Israel has literally not agreed to the ceasefire proposal. Hamas has. Can you read beyond the title? The contention is that Hamas wants a assurance that Israel will follow the ceasefire. Israel wants to do the hostages swap, but only if they can continue bombing Palestinians afterwards.
Hamas did accept the peace deal. And it evaporated. Again. Israel is the one consistently sinking deals. Even to the point of telling Biden they support one and then publicly humiliating him when he announces they’re on board.
Sure… let me know when Hamas actually agrees to the deal instead of just saying bullshit like “we look upon this positively.”
Dude.
Because the suffering of the Palestinians is the currency that powers Hamas.
Yup. The Hamas leaders in Qatar are literally billionaires from all of this. TikTok influencers are also making some serious money from their monetized videos about this. This truthout site linked about pops up asking for donations in front of an image of crying Palestinians.
The suffering of Palestinians is very profitable for a lot of people.
Removed by mod
Hamas is in the right to make sorties and take hostages when besieged.
No they don’t. Taking civilians hostage is an actual war crime according to international law. Deliberately killing people based on their ethnicity is genocide. Which is what Hamas did on October 7.
Because it all happens in the framework of a siege by Israel.
Israel has a right to build a fence on their border. Obviously not a good plan, since the fence wasn’t effective, but they have a right to do that.
Blockades are also legal and defined in the oldest of international law, Maritime Law.
If it’s subjectively beneficial for the state of Israel to wipe out Gaza, and they have plenty of agents in Hamas
If you believe that, then why are you supporting Hamas?
And if it’s a ceasefire, then after it Israel can continue killing as they want, and Hamas won’t have any hostages anymore
Yes they would no longer be committing a war crime. Will Hamas send the people responsible for this war crime to face justice at the ICJ? Or does the ICJ only exist to punish supposed crimes by Israel but Hamas can commit any crime it wants without fear of punishment?
While claiming that Israel is dehumanizing Palestinians you’re dehumanizing Israelis. A lot of people were brutally slaughtered on October 7, and you’re incapable of understanding the repercussions because you don’t think of Israelis as people deserving of life. Seems you’re doing a lot of projection of your tendency to dehumanize others onto other people.
Try to be a better person.
Removed by mod
International law generally doesn’t work in favour of criminals, buddy.
This is not a crime. Nothing done against Israeli citizens is, actually.
Nobody is going to take claims of Palestinians being dehumanized if you’re dehumanizing Israelis while doing it. You’re a monster saying that other people are monsters.
