• @[email protected]
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    75 months ago

    So there seems to be 4 main groupings that each use similar words.

    What causes these groupings? Are they some sort of cross border cultural identities/shared culture?

    • @[email protected]
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      145 months ago

      Culture and identity and language and all that is a continuum in the Arab world as it is anywhere else. There are people who would claim that our native language where I’m from shouldn’t be considered “Arabic” but that’s a whole can of worms.

      I am not a linguist, just a layperson.

      I don’t like dividing us into little categories in most contexts because that’s often used in the context of saying “look we’re much better than <other group>” but very broadly four cultural spheres is correct:

      • Levant has stronger Syriac and Turkish influence (which also applies to modern Turkish). Unfortunately that’s used sometimes as evidence that we a different (that’s not bad necessarily) or inherently better (this one is bad) people than the peoples to our south. Lebanon particularly also has a strong reliance on French and to a lesser extent English loanwords. Stereotypically seen as a bit gentle (when being generous) or effeminate (when making fun of it) as far as the spectrum of the language goes.

      • The Gulf is where a lot of modern Arab stereotypes come from. It’s more heterogeneous than most people give it credit for but there’s obviously a distinct culture after crossing into the desert. The line is a bit more blurry on the East side than the West but this might just be my own bias coming from Lebanon. Some surprising English loanwords scattered throughout. More aggressive in tone on average.

      • Egypt is kind of it’s own thing and it’s simultaneously a cultural juggernaut, especially in the past century when it was exporting a ton of music and movies and literature (we were doing that too to a lesser extent). Egypt has a massive population, most of which is very densely concentrated, and a huge media machine. I feel like Egyptian is the most widely understood dialect because all Arabs are exposed to it. Libya is grouped with Egypt sometimes and sometimes it’s not, depending on what you’re comparing.

      • West of Libya is basically alien to me. There’s been more culture coming from there that we are exposed to now, especially music in the past decade. We all like seeing Morocco and Algeria pull off upsets at the World Cup but we see them as kind of their own bubble all the way over there. Their dialects are difficult for us to grasp and even the vocabulary they use is very different. Personally, I’ve defaulted to French or English with the few Moroccans I’ve met while abroad. Yay colonialism. Although we do bond over comparing language differences (“You say what for pants? That’s funny.” Etc )

      • Then there’s Standard Arabic (we call it Fus7a), which nobody speaks natively but we all learn in school. Most books and articles are written in Modern Standard Arabic. Divided opinion among the more nationalistic types on whether or not it’s important or should be taught. It’s the formalized form of the language and while I’m terrible at writing or speaking it, I do find it useful when I need to fall back to a word I can’t think of. I think of it as a kind of linguistic gear change. You can also drop the odd unexpected MSA word or form here and there to catch people off guard and punctuate your speech but maybe that’s just me.

      • @Jyrdano
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        25 months ago

        Very informative, thank you!

      • @[email protected]OP
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        5 months ago

        The line is a bit more blurry on the East side than the West but this might just be my own bias coming from Lebanon.

        I always thought Urban Hejaz and the Levant [and Egypt] share in a dialect continuum or at least a sprachbund, I don’t know a lot of dialects that say مرق to mean pass except those two. Urban Hejazi dialects also drop the use of interdentals like in Lebanese. In the same way Bahrani dialect Bahrain/Eastern Saudi Arabia shares with Mesopotamia in having Akkadian and Aramaic influences.

        Here’s a fun comparison between Hejazi and Najdi dialects https://youtube.com/shorts/Fi9_bNiazOA

        More aggressive in tone on average.

        Only the Bedouin and Najdi dialects which happen to be over represented. Jeddawi in particular and other Urban Hejazi dialects are seen as effeminate https://youtu.be/AHWbA0b9bK4

    • @[email protected]OP
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      -25 months ago
      1. Arabs at the rise of Islam already were speaking different dialects and so they took those differences with them.
      2. Different regions have had different influences, e.g. Coptic and Greek in Egypt, Punic, Latin and Amazigh in North Africa, Nubian in Sudan, and so on.
      3. 1400 years of divergent history, including different foreign rule in different regions.