- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- technology
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- technology
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Wow. That is a truly horrendous interview. This saga just keeps getting better. That interview is somehow the absolute worst thing he’s done so far, and he’s pulled a lot of shit.
The only thing more gross than Elon Musk is an Elon Musk imitator. He’s just. so. angry.
For me he’s also stupid, I mean, you’re managing one of the biggest websites in the world and you don’t know accessibility is an international standard?? You need “guidelines” before you know what you should implement in your own official app? (he said this during the AMA) Come on …
A lot of these tech goons are losers in their personal lives and get huge ego strokes being able to control these platforms. Any questioning of their actions is perceived as a direct challenge to them as a person.
If that just became the worst he’s ever done, I can’t wait another week before he stoops another 10 feet lower.
The way he setup Pao so he could look like a savior is still the worst thing he has done. Or maybe dealing with CP as a mod of jailbait.
It’s always important to take a step back and consider that the mega-rich exist in a totally separate reality than the rest of us do. They were raised in a way that they were never forced out of infancy into adulthood like the rest of us were. I hope that eventually we realize that it’s not responsible to allow major institutions to be under the control of adults whose worldview has never progressed since the time they were toddlers.
Hey, sorry y’all had to defederate from our server.
I guess I thought I understood what that meant, but I somehow didn’t quite grasp that we can both still subscribe to third party communities like here at [email protected], and continue to interact indirectly through those channels. So the whole defederation thing matters even less than I thought it did.
Sorry to be off topic but some people at lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works might benefit from seeing this explained.
just an FYI, despite you seeing their comment, they can’t see yours.
Ok I see. And the reason for that is because beehaw has defederated my server, but my server has not defederated beehaw, correct?
Kinda confusing, I guess I thought of federation as a bilateral agreement for some reason, but actually each instance unilaterally decides who to federate with, and its not always reciprocal.
Yes. Think of it like blocking someone. beehaw defederated from sh.itjust.works so they can’t see anything from sh.itjust.works. not comments, not threads, not communities. 100% blocked. whereas the reverse isn’t true. you’re not able to get communities or content from beehaw (because they blocked and aren’t sending it to you), but their comments and threads elsewhere in the fediverse are still shared with you. This thread is hosted on lemmy.ml, so everyone federated with lemmy.ml can see it and interact with it; this is why you can see the beehaw user’s comment.
However, since beehaw defederated with sh.itjust.works, your reply remains unseen by them. sh.itjust.works could mutually defederate/block beehaw and you wouldn’t see the comment. but that’s up to your instance whether you wanna do that or not.
Ok thanks for explaining. I don’t see any reason we would defederate beehaw, they only blocked us because trolls were signing up on our server and spamming toxic stuff to their communities. Totally understandable, and hopefully we can reconnect with them once this platform matures a bit.
I know some people on lemmy.world were discussing defederating with beehaw because they were thinking it was annoying/confusing to have beehaw stuff show up even when beehaw defederated with them (and thus results in situations like this).
personally, I’m of the philosophy that it’s good to federate with as many instances as possible. and that’s how kbin has been doing things so far. other instances may wish to intentionally select which instances they federate to craft particular experiences (like what beehaw did). just depends on what you’re after.
Defederation should honestly be saved for the worst of the worst. What beehaw has done just doesn’t really make much sense. They’re intentionally blocking themselves off from the rest of the fedi, and I don’t think it’s because of trolls/spam. It seems like any comments that don’t fit the culture they want are seen as a reason to defederate.
I mean that’s fine for them, they can stay in their bubble, but it means their users could potentially miss on a lot of content as well; it honestly hurts them more than the rest of us. And the longer they stay that way, the more they’ll suffer, unfortunately.
I feel like even though this is all pretty chaotic in the short term, it feels like it could be a pretty good learning experience for the strengths and weaknesses of federating in general
I love you for explaining this so clearly, I was actually so confused about this I may or may not have misinformed someone else, oops.
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but they can’t see your message. Check it from the beehaw instance yourself.
this helped clarify something for me. which was whether it just nuked the replies to the lemmy.world/sh.itjust.works comment, or only that one comment. seems like it just removes the entire chain.
Ya, it also works that way if you block someone too. Unlike Twitter/Discord which show “you’ve blocked this message”, on here they simply don’t exist, nor do any replies to them.
I’m not really in the mindset of blocking people, but that’s good to know.
The Verge interview is Here
The tl;dr is it’s the AMA part 2: electric douchealoo
These people who are mad, they’re mad because they used to get something for free, and now it’s going to be not free.
I just can’t believe that a CEO of a company who doesn’t pay their moderators would actually say something so tone deaf.
And blatantly false.
Huffman has argued the changes are a business decision to force AI companies training on Reddit’s data to pony up
LMFAO that ship has fucking sailed. They already used Reddit data through 2021 and got everything they needed for free. Huffman is locking the barn after the horses are already out, and setting it on fire. What a fucking dumbass.
LMFAO that ship has fucking sailed. They already used Reddit data through 2021 and got everything they needed for free. Huffman is locking the barn after the horses are already out, and setting it on fire. What a fucking dumbass.
Plus they can just scrape the data without using the API. It’s a red herring, just a lie to cover up his desire to kill third party apps.
Also no sane company would pay that ridiculous price for training a LLM on memes
Why paying exorbitant api prices when you can scrape for free? Like all those image models clearly trained on scraped watermarked stock images
He managed to paint Reddit as the victim in this, double down on their decision, and then paint the moderators and App developers as the ones hurting users.
Insanity.
It’s funny how he’s playing this out to be about third party apps like Apollo. Like yeah, that’s what the community cares about, but the reason they’re making the changes is because he’s fucking anal about OpenAI and other companies finding such success with products they have built using data scraped via the Reddit API.
He wants some of that money, not the comparatively tiny amount that Christian got from Apollo.
He also doesn’t seem to get that people root for an underdog. Had he been more serious about how they are upset that companies use their API to build massive tools that they can sublicense to other companies, like Microsoft, and make lots of money, people might agree with that.
What he’s framing it as though, is a big company like Reddit vs small indie app developers, like Christian Selig. Guess who the underdog is in that scenario, Hm?
Dude could literally invent a developer program to help support “sanctioned” third party devs that pay some sort of a yearly fee to access the API and raise cost like he is now to fend off LLMs. But nah, I’d expect that out of somebody that is actually wanting to solve the problem. Lol
That sounds unnecessarily complex. Just force an authentication of the client (ergo, make it so you can’t access the API without logging in) and add api rate limits per user, maybe with higher limits on users that have the paid Reddit membership tier.
But I don’t think that was the point anyway. It’s less work to just start charging for the API. That way they can charge companies like OpenAI, and drive others to use their main app, letting them sell targeted adverts to them too.
For the sake of poking on a solution further. Auth would limit web scrapers, which they don’t want given how valuable user comments and posts were. Rate limiting can cause perf issues depending on how calls are being made and you’d have to make considerations based on metrics of usage, clients, calls per client etc etc, which is even more complex than full blown access to a “managed/sanctioned” client. A sanctioning system gives them full control of the pipeline, with the trade off being that it’s a bit more work on their end to vet them.
But yeah, clearly a solvable problem, but it’s just malice at this point on their part.
That’s not the point for Reddit. They need to show a path to profitability for investors on the Reddit planned IPO. They plan on harvesting every last ounce of user data, and those third party apps deny them that every last ounce of data. That is why they won’t back down.
I commented another place in the thread here about how Huffman is bsing about this “profitability” angle and I can’t link to it. :-( Path to profitability for reddit is a pre-seed 1 funding conversation that should have already been iterated on and solved by now, especially if they are going to IPO. Even if they were to harvest user data, that can be done with transparency, but they just don’t want to do it.
They kinda already have something along those lines, or at least it’s in the works. I’m pretty sure that’s what Devvit is supposed to be, but rather than actually finish that project, they’d rather crusade against the Apollo app for some reason
It’s funny how he’s playing this out to be about third party apps like Apollo. Like yeah, that’s what the community cares about, but the reason they’re making the changes is because he’s fucking anal about OpenAI and other companies finding such success with products they have built using data scraped via the Reddit API.
The data could just be scraped without the API anyway.
Absolutely, but the API offers a really smooth and convenient way of doing it without a lot of extra processing overhead. Scraping HTML is a little bit more involved.
But using an API requires integration with every individual site they want to consume. Crawlers do not. For the same reason, LLMs aren’t using the API.
Reddit could also enforce existing limits or change their TOS to explicitly ban this activity of it was indeed leading to millions of dollars in additional operating expenses. They have done neither.
Huffman is just lying about OpenAI and others being the problem.
My first comment in the entire fediverse will be:
FUCK U/SPEZ
I’d hate to be that guy
Truly
Well, he is probably hated a lot more than a few months ago, but will also likely get a huge stack of cash when reddit does the IPO…
Balls in his mouth
Honestly, we should just leave it behind and focus on making communities here better. They have every right to cut off their nose to spite their face on their own website. Let’s learn from that for the future in contributing to making someone else’s website great.
The best revenge is living well.
I agree, let’s just forget them and make a cool place for us here
All experienced mods are welcome. We value your contributions here.
The unwillingness to back down is mind boggling.
I think he has shown his true form, he was always a cunt and not a very intelligent one. But now that the games afoot he has shown his true colors. The only thing he cares about is $$$$
Don’t forget that he also ran the sub r/jailbird, which totally makes everything…uhhhhh…yeah…makes it…
Edit: phone autoassume changed the name of the subreddit, I’m actually fine with that.
Be careful; someone might jump down your throat to say that “there was a time in Reddit where someone could add anyone as a moderator” but fail to provide any proof of this (that u/spez was added as mod to troll him). For all we know, spez himself actually mods jailbait, just not actively.
Also, if you were added against your will, especially to somewhere like that, why would you not remove yourself immediately? He’s the cofounder of Reddit, it’s not like we’re talking about some rando who checks his account once a year and doesn’t pay attention to potential changes they didn’t make, PLUS he’s literally an admin with server side access which makes any claims of “well you couldn’t remove yourself once added as a mod” invalid, there is no way he didn’t notice it and no way he could not remove himself. He wanted to be there and wholeheartedly endorsed such content being hosted from Reddit until the public rightfully got outraged and forced them to ban it.
Can’t back down when you’re a narcissistic liar
yea this guy screams narcissist
Need to come off macho and confident for the shareholders/potential shareholders.
I genuinely believe this is the real reason.
Not even willing to negotiate or come to some kind of understanding anymore. Just straight up treating the community that put him where he is as if we’re the bad guys.
he needs competition
The 9to5mac article has just the right amount of spiteful contempt. Nice.
I appreciate his contribution to growing the fediverse everyday with all these gifts.
Folks have made millions.
It sucks to be you, Reddit.
It’s hilarious how people have literally paid app developers for a better way to experience reddit and he’s mad about that. Like sorry you’re a talentless hack. The only reason reddit is as popular as it is was down to the stars aligning back in the digg days. That’s about it, first mover advantage with your only other competitor shooting themselves in the foot.
I used most 3rd-party apps for Android and the official one is simply the worst.
Lemmy clients are already better than Reddit’s official apps.
You’re right about the first mover advantage: there was a small time window in which Reddit was the town square of the Internet, but it turned to shit when the brass decided to milk users like data money cows.
How not to CEO 101
Most CEOs would pretend to care or be concerned even if they didn’t change paths lmao
My god… he is such… a fucking… idiot. Holy shit… I’m just surprised he’s lasted this long as “CEO”. I work in tech and I’ve seen interns and entry level engineers exercise better decision making. I guess being strongman is more important to him than saving his company and/or protecting his image as a sensible leader.
grabs popcorn
pOpCoRn tAsTeS gOoD
It’s a reference to the last time u/spez was an asshole. Come on! No need to downvote.
To be fair, the downvotes might also be part of the joke. That comment was the most downvoted in Reddit history before EA came along.
And it’s not like there’s karma on Lemmy so I don’t care lol
He is so out of touch.
So glad I deliberately got perma banned a couple of days ago then nuked my account. I also deleted all the tracking cookies and deleted Boost (sorry boost dev you guys are great keep fighting the good fight) and blocked reddit domain using ublacklist.
Fuck u/spez
I don’t really engage much anymore because of busy life but I’ll try to be more active here.
Has Boost specifically stated they were shutting down? I have only seen official posts for Since RIF, and Apollo. I was watching for it, but haven’t seen it. I assume it will happen
