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Isn’t it liberating when a complex question is completely avoided by a universal notion of ‘USA bad’?
It’s like the inverse of American exceptionalism, it’s so weird. Improving people’s material conditions is more important than perpetuating ideology.
I genuinely think we can thrive as a species under almost any economic system as long as companies are strictly regulated. Just fucking take care of people.
It’s like the inverse of American exceptionalism,
Yes that’s definitely it. It’s people who have heard the stupid overly-patriotic American exceptionalism “America can do no wrong”, they know it’s obviously not true and so they switch to the reverse position of “America does all wrong” like it’s somehow more true.
IMHO, the ideology comes second after Venezuela being a part of debate between the West and the likes of Putin, so even if locals themselves resist against Maduro they’d be written off as foreign forces meddling in the politics of the sovereign state (I’ve already seen foreshadowing of it in ml-threads and russian news). If, on the other hand, Ukraine or other state got taken over by anti-western forces, there would be hoops to proclaim that’s what people want or that’s for the cause of ~~anti-~~imperialism. That binary logic may covers itself in legit arguments and historical contexts, like a distorted perception of aboriginal cultures, but the foundational block is usually that, and it’s supported by a whole different stream of propaganda.
I double your last sentence. And it’s people who need and depend on doing that.
Tankies and compelling cannibalism through malefic policy decisions, name a more iconic duo
These morons realize Russia is influencing the outcome of this with Wagner? Like I’m not saying the US should intervene, but what’s happening in Venezuela isn’t liberation. It’s Russia maintaining their colonial holdings. The people at ground level there agitating to get rid of Maduro aren’t anti-comm, they’re anti-colonial, which is what any good communist should be. What a bunch of dumb dumb dingleberries
Worst part is, the only reason the fucking neoliberals are so prominent in the opposition was because Maduro removed all of his left opposition from running (jail, election bans, exile, etc). It’s one of the stupidest fucking choices imaginable if you were to think Maduro were ideologically motivated. However, as purely a power play, it’s the right move - forcing the opposition to rally around a less-popular viewpoint. It just wasn’t enough to swing the election in Maduro’s favor.
Oh. Perhaps they do realize it. That would explain why they’re simping so hard for authoritarian dictatorship.
You’re saying Wagner is in Venezuela? I know it’s in Russia’s interest for Maduro to stay in power but I haven’t heard of any Russian involvement
Lenin overthrew an election, and they love him, so it’s hardly a surprise.
In a television address on state TV on Thursday, Maduro announced the construction of two high-security prisons for detainees related to the protests. He said these would be “reeducation camps”, where prisoners would be required to participate in forced labour.
For anyone looking for the exact excerpt
The tankies love Uyghur genocide. They’ll love these camps also.
Don’t worry, I am assured that they deserve it, on account of probably being reactionaries, or looking like reactionaries, or looking like they were near reactionaries.
Alternatively, Al-Jazeera is now a Westoid Imperialist Outlet™
You dive in deep wherever tankies are rooted so others are not as swayed. Ty for the micro-content over all these months.
Why don’t they
eat cakehave a revolution?This site is living in your brain rent-free and the instance’s owner is your landlord.
I think that tankie is trying to say that a revolution needs to grow organically, and no intervention will be cheap with human lives.
The rest of the world needs to adopt the US constitution 2nd Amendment rights. If everyone had guns, all dictators and authoritarians would sweat.
And the US, in it’s boundless generosity, has shown the world how not to do the right to bear arms. The moment they start being weird about it and turning it into a personality trait just punch them in the dick.
Weapon democracy doesn’t compute well without an effective information and accountability apparatus aka ‘the media’, education system and judiciary.
“If you don’t know where to target, what use is a weapon?”
Weapon democracy is also pretty bad at peaceful power change. Shooting down every generation of dictators vs e.g. trialling organisations and people opposed to democracy™ sends different messages for, say, mediation.
They’ve got a point though. There’s a big difference between (1) people wanting freedom, protesting and taking up arms in a revolt, and (2) people wanting freedom, appealing to the US to step in and welcoming US troops.
Wanting the US to not be World Police isn’t the same thing as licking fascist boots, far from it.
This isn’t in reference to military intervention, or proposed military intervention, but in response to a US statement (now, after a week for Maduro’s government to substantiate its claims of victory and still having nothing) that the opposition’s evidence that they won the election instead of Maduro is credible.
That’s the level of Yankee interference here.
You’ll notice they include the EU, which is not a military organization, as one of the meddlers as well.
This isn’t in reference to military intervention
The last comment says:
“Do you think them helpless peasants that require the intervention of big brother USA whenever there is trouble?”
I interpreted the “intevention” to mean military intervention. I’m not sure what other kind of intervention would be worth commenting on in the case of “trouble”.
The ‘intervention’ here is taking any sort of stance that isn’t licking Maduro’s boots.
I don’t agree with your interpretation. It still seems to me that the comment I was responding to (which isn’t in this screenshot) was talking about military intervention. We don’t need to argue about it though, we could just go and ask the person who wrote the comment what they meant. But I doubt either of us will.
Regardless, I agree with the tankie, much as it pains me to admit. Who the fuck are the US and the EU to poke their noses into the business of other sovereign nations?
Who the fuck are the US and the EU to poke their noses into the business of other sovereign nations?
I didn’t realize sovereignty meant no one can ever criticize you for anything, especially not blatantly faking an election after agreeing to have free and fair elections in exchange for access to US markets. I’ll have to inform a number of anti-US countries posthaste.
can
This doesn’t make sense. By definition, nobody has the power to prevent a sovereign nation from criticising another and the US is a sovereign nation.
You didn’t address my question.
Who are the US and Europe to have an opinion on free and fair elections? We share the same planet. If my neighbor strangles his wife to keep custody of the kids I’m going to have something to say about it.
International election observers found the election to be fair and valid.
National Lawyers Guild: “The delegation observed a transparent, fair voting process with scrupulous attention to legitimacy, access to the polls, and pluralism.”
Council of Electoral Experts of Latin America (CEELA): Venezuela has the best electoral system in Latin America, due to which Venezuelans can “vote in peace and tranquility knowing that the votes will be counted, that the will of Venezuelans will be reflected in the results declared by the National Electoral Council.”
South Africa: “The observers condemn and dispel allegations of fraud by the Reuters media group reporting on the elections taking place in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela without actually being present. Claims or allegations of fraud have been found to be baseless and mischievous with Venezuela’s electoral system considered one of the best in the world.”
They only people claiming fraud are the Americans and the losers. Unrelated fact, they both want to privatise the oil company PDVSA.
They only people claiming fraud are the Americans and the losers.
And the EU, and almost all of Latin America. But hey, who needs facts when you have boots to lick?
I would distinguish election observer groups reporting their first hand observations and politicians making statements. For South America:
Claim fraud:
- Argentina
- Chile
- Costa Rica
- Ecuador
- El Salvador
- Panama
- Peru
- Uruguay
Seek verification:
- Brazil
- Bolivia
- Colombia
- Guatemala
- Guyana
- Mexico
- Paraguay
Support:
- Bolivia
- Cuba
- Nicaragua
You might be able to notice political leanings of the groups. Capitalists not liking an election result doesn’t make it fraudulent. The same claims were made of previous elections and proven false after audit.
All of this is to ignore the 100 year history of U.S-backed coups in Venezuela and trade sanctions. It is hard to take American voices seriously when they claim to advocate for the people of Venezuela while enforcing sanctions that destroy their quality of life.
“All except three countries in Latin America are US puppets” is about the braindead take I expected of a fascist. Democracy only when it suits you, huh?
Thanks, by the way, for explicitly refuting your own previous point of
They only people claiming fraud are the Americans and the losers.
It is hard to take American voices seriously when they claim to advocate for the people of Venezuela while enforcing sanctions that destroy their quality of life.
lmao. “Mean ol’ America won’t subsidize my favorite fascist regime by granting them access to American markets 🥺”
Funny how it seems like every one of these BRAVE ANTI-US NATIONS is utterly dependent on American trade to guarantee a basic standard of living for their people. You would think the bold socialist nation of Venezuela would be capable of paying retirees more than $2.50 a month and keeping more than 10% of the population above the poverty line with their glorious democratic socialist utopia.
Almost like Maduro’s regime is just a fascist petrostate dependent on outside subsidy or plunder to remain standing, since it has no capacity to run even the basic functions of a country itself, like all fascist states.
Let me know of any groups I missed, but as far as I can tell only the Carter Center and the opposition were on the ground and unhappy with the outcome.
The Carter Center seek disaggregated results by polling station to corroborate the results. The opposition took their own exit polls and claim 70% of the vote. All statements by nations are informed by one or both of these groups. That’s why I said the Americans and losers are the ones claiming fraud. The opposition are clearly biased, while the Carter Center I would go on a limb and call USA aligned.
Let me know of any groups I missed
We could start with all the election observers which Venezuela prevented from entering the country.
But that’s not suspicious at all, no sir.
Ten years from now you’ll still be licking Maduro’s boots, regardless of whether he’s in office, in exile, or in the ground. Fascists just can’t help themselves.
Have a read of the National Lawyers Guild full report, they go through the US’s actions to discredit the election.
Just a few days before the election, on Friday, July 26, 2024, a who’s who of Latin American right-wing personalities sought to enter the country on a private jet. US mainstream media portrayed this as a benign action without recognition of their previous human rights violations and their efforts to undermine Venezuelan democracy. Former Colombian Vice President Marta Lucia Ramirez, who was on the plane, has a long history of supporting campaigns to destabilize the duly elected Venezuelan government. While these individuals claim they sought to observe the election, it is unclear what training, framework, reporting mechanism, or authority they have to do so.
Just noticed your addition to a previous comment:
Funny how it seems like every one of these BRAVE ANTI-US NATIONS is utterly dependent on American trade to guarantee a basic standard of living for their people.
They are a petrostate, all of their money comes from oil, nearly everything else they have to buy from other countries. Their economy was fucked when oil prices went down in 2014. The biggest buyer in the region is the USA, so when they stopped buying they were double fucked. Certainly an argument can be made that playing ball with USA is the way to go when it’s the easiest path to grow exports. Just a shame that the person to vote for that option is a CIA spy
We observed a deeply participatory and pluralistic process where the Venezuelan people are directly engaged in the social and political life of their nation.
This the same ‘participatory and pluralistic’ process in which Maduro’s government has repeatedly banned candidates from running, imprisoned opposition, placed armed government guards at the polls, and have refused to release the vote tallies they supposedly have?
Like, all of this could have been avoided if Maduro’s government weren’t a bunch of fascists trying to hide an election loss simply by releasing the vote tallies that have been requested by numerous countries in addition to the opposition. But instead they say “Trust us bro we totally won”, and all the good bootlickers fall over themselves to worship Maduro’s democracy.
Despite the soundness of the electoral process, the US-backed opposition and US mainstream media refuse to accept the results, aiming once again to threaten Venezuela’s democracy and sovereignty.
Oh yes, US mainstream media like (checks notes) the BBC and Al-Jazeera.
Meanwhile, in response to election-related criticism, Venezuela has expelled diplomats from Argentina, Chile, Costa Rica, Panama, the Dominican Republic and Uruguay.
Definitely top notch stuff here. What free and democratic government doesn’t expel diplomats for hurting the regime’s feelings? /s
[Maduro’s] attorney general has threatened to issue arrest orders for both Machado and Gonzalez. Already, armed forces seized a key opposition leader, Freddy Superlano of the Voluntad Popular party, on Tuesday morning.
Also very normal democracy stuff, arresting opposition leaders immediately after an election.
Fuck’s sake. Are you really that desperate to support fascism?
They are a petrostate, all of their money comes from oil, nearly everything else they have to buy from other countries.
They’re a petrostate because Chavismo was built on high oil prices to subsidize massive clientism and corruption. Maybe that wasn’t such a great idea for a supposedly independent and socialist ideology?
Their economy was fucked when oil prices went down in 2014.
Cool, so, they’ve changed their tack since then?
No?
Huh. It’s almost like they have no plan to better the country and just want to hang onto power at all costs.
