Voting your ethics is what the primary is for. Voting strategically is what the final vote is for.
Voting your ethics is what the primary is for. Voting strategically is what the final vote is for.
For me personally, I vote ethics at both times.
But I respect and support your viewpoint for sure.
Is it ethical to cast a third party vote that lets the least ethical candidate with the election? It seems to me that such a decision undermines the point of ethics. Sometimes a compromise is the most ethical thing to do.
Is it ethical to cast a third party vote that lets the least ethical candidate with the election? It seems to me that such a decision undermines the point of ethics. Sometimes a compromise is the most ethical thing to do.
Voting is an expression of personal values, and supporting a third-party candidate is a way to advocate for those values, even if the candidate doesn’t have a great chance of winning.
Your argument that voting third-party may lead to the least ethical candidate winning, assumes that people should always choose the lesser of two evils, which perpetuates a system that doesn’t align with their beliefs.
I personally think that in the long run, continually compromising on ethics by voting for one of the two major parties will delay development of alternatives that represent what I believe in.
By voting third-party, I’m contributing to a broader political conversation that challenges the status quo and pushes for meaningful change. And I am voting for what I believe in. Which, we as Americans, have the right to do. Even if it’s not the candidate you wish I were voting for.
So no, I won’t be compromising.
UNLESS a socialist party gets on my ballot. Then I’d switch from Green to Socialist.
Voting is an expression of personal values
Is it really? Or is it simply a legal mechanism by which we choose who rules over us?
Your argument that voting third-party may lead to the least ethical candidate winning, assumes that people should always choose the lesser of two evils,
No one buys this. Their argument assumes outcomes matter and that’s literally all it assumes.
All your argument assumes is that the outcome is not something anyone can force you to care about as it is not your problem. Which is a garbage lie.
No one buys this
I, and many others, buy this. Which is why the democratic party, and Lemmy, is so mad about third parties. Obviously enough people “buy” it that you all are worried about “spoilers.”
I respect your right to your opinion, but I disagree with it.
Libertarians are just awful Republicans. It doesn’t hurt them any to have you throw your vote away.
I think everyone who was going to vote for trump but is feeling doubt should pick a third party candidate to vote for instead.
And I think everyone should vote for who they feel best aligns with their personal values. Regardless of party affiliation.
People should do what they think is best, based on their own situation (region, district, needs, etc) and beliefs(what they think should happen, what they can ethically stand, etc). In this election, I think Trump is a dangerous (personally and politically) and incompetent enough figure that conservative people should deliberately throw the election to force their party in a different direction.
My personal belief is that government is a tool, and my vote will go to the person who seems most likely to enact policy that aligns with my values.
and my vote will go to the person who seems most likely to enact policy that aligns with my values.
I totally agree.
Harris is not the one that does that for me so I won’t be voting for her, but everyone should def pick the person that aligns with their values.
I don’t think there’s any reason to believe you’re even American
I don’t think there’s any reason to believe you’re even American
Well I have 10 subs that I started and that I mod. And not all of them are political. Feel free to check them out in my profile.
And I don’t think there’s any reason to believe you’re even American. Do you have proof that you are?
Weird. No one asked you for proof. It’s obviously suspect that you suddenly appeared from nowhere and apparently spend half your day on this weird canvassing.
Weird. No one asked you for proof.
What proof do you need?
It’s obviously suspect that you suddenly appeared from nowhere
Isn’t that every single person that starts Lemmy? Isn’t every new person, “suddenly appeared from nowhere?”
Exactly how much time did you think I should have waited before I started posting articles I thought were interesting?!
Because when I signed up, there was no disclaimer telling me that I had to wait a certain time to start posting.
How long did YOU wait to start posting after you started a new account?
Basically, because I post news articles, (that I didn’t even write–they came form news orgs) that you don’t like, you are implying that I’m not even American.
So does every Amercian have to believe in the exact same things you do? Because guess what? About half the country isn’t gonna vote for your candidate. Does that mean they aren’t American?
It’s obviously suspicious that you’re so against third parties all of a sudden, even tho they have been around long before this election.
So now that I think of it, I don’t think there’s any reason to believe you’re even American.
You’ve made a series of very poor choices to end up as a libertarian VP nominee.
He should be considering rehab, not explaining things to people.
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OP is a Mormon Satanist. Transracial Kopimist Monk. Socialist Workers Party Green Comrade. Alcohol-free, drug-free, caffeine-free, woke-free, influencer-free, uncensored (free!).
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I just get confused how you practice mormon satanism.
Do they have pentagrams on their temple garments?
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The temple garments are the underwear!
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Green Party is for nerds.
Libertarians listen to Winger and smoke ditchweed pinners. They’re the cool guys.
I upvoted purely for the Winger comment. Hilarious!
I’m def the nerd Green guy; I don’t even know what ditchweed pinners are, but I’m assuming weed?
What’s the plan, friend?
That’s the mistake several posters have made about me. There is no “plan.”
I read interesting political news, and I post it to this Lemmy political news community. I’ve also posted Socialist articles too.
I am Green (tho lean more socialist), but that’s not the only political news I read, nor is it the only political news stuff I post.
This sub gets plenty of pro-democrat articles. Having a little diversity is good.
Having said that, I expect many replies saying that I’m really a Trumper, that I’m posting things to spoil the election, etc.
But before people lose their shit and start saying that, Libertarian party voters usually take away Trump votes; NOT democrat votes, if they wanna play the “spoiler!” game.
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I kinda feel that phrase may be like a sister phrase to, “May you live in interesting times.”
First I smiled. Then I squinted a little bit. Then I was like, “Hey, wait a sec…”
Well played!
Have my upvote. I appreciate a good turn of phrase!
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This dude is on a one man quest to promote third parties on Lemmy, and the crazy thing to me is how generally non combative and polite they are. It seems like rage bait and every one of their posts gets massive down votes but then you see their comments are all like "well I respect your opinion but I disagree’… I really can’t tell if this is just a master level troll or some deep cover Russian op.
Absolutely rage bait. Imo the language might read as non combative, but in application it feels like just a blind to slip a ban. Read through some of their exchanges with Mx. SMCF; it’s pointing a hand in somebody’s face and using the ‘I’m not touching you’ of defenses.
I get hateful remarks every day. And I try to remain civil. It’s not really any deeper than that.
Hm. You seem to contain multitudes. Perhaps literally.
I don’t understand what you mean.
I post articles about libertarian issues and green party issues. So people from both sides of the debate are pretty mad about it.
But note, I didn’t write the news articles. If anyone has a problem with the content, they can bring it up with the authors/editors of the news articles. I just post what I see.
I don’t see any reason to think it isn’t genuine. I’ve met plenty of people who feel this way.
But either way they must have incredible patience to deal with all the abuse they receive!
You can tell when you engage and ask questions that require actual thought. Bring up the fact that many third party candidates have been shown to literally be in the race to confuse voters or pull votes away from other candidates, and they no longer want to engage, attempting to steer the conversation away from that topic.
The fact that they won’t even acknowledge it happens, which is an objective fact, is proof enough for me to believe that’s what they are attempting.
Bring up the fact that many third party candidates have been shown to literally be in the race to confuse voters or pull votes away from other candidates
So if that’s true, then Libertarian Party (which is the party in the article I posted for this thread) would draw voters AWAY from Trump. Which would actually help Harris.
So are you upset that I posted an article about a party that would actually help Harris and work against Trump?
I’ve also posted about other parties that, according to your logic, would take votes away from Trump.
I’m confused about why you would be mad that I posted an article that is anti-Trump.
So are you pro-Trump then?
I’m sorry, are you trying to suggest that shady situations in support of the candidate I prefer would be a good thing, while the same actions by a candidate I dislike would be bad?
Are your morals that flexible? Does hypocrisy run wild through your standards? Because that’s the only way your reply could make sense to me.
I’m sorry, are you trying to suggest that shady situations in support of the candidate I prefer would be a good thing, while the same actions by a candidate I dislike would be bad?
Well many many Lemmy people think that. As I have found out firsthand. Let me know if you would like links to the conversations where people are saying exactly that!
If you are not one of those people, then yay!
Does hypocrisy run wild through your standards? Because that’s the only way your reply could make sense to me.
No, in fact, when I brought up the hypocrisy to the people who think it’s ok when it happens to the other party, just not theirs, I called out their hypocrisy. Good to know you are not one of them. But many exist. I know because I argued with them.
In this post to be exact: https://lemmy.world/post/18907042
You should see my DM’s! These public ones are bad enough, but oy! The private ones are borderline creepy. Tho the guy who keeps insisting every day that I am getting paid in “russian bitcoins” and that I live in a mansion with Putin is funny. Crazy, but funny.
So it’s not so much patience, its that I just don’t take any of it personal.
What’s even more fascinating to me tho, is the amount of anger I get for posting a news article about a third party. It’s not like I write the articles. And it’s not like this sub is ONLY for pro democrat articles.
I post about libertarian stuff and the trump gang gets mad at me and calls me names. I post green party stuff, and the Harris gang gets mad at me, and calls me names.
I will have to say the Democrat people actually get more mad at me than the republicans, tho. Which I was def not counting on.
This dude is on a one man quest to promote third parties on Lemmy,
So do you think we need even more articles on the awesomeness of the Democratic Party?
and the crazy thing to me is how generally non combative and polite they are.
So I should be more rude?
I really can’t tell if this is just a master level troll or some deep cover Russian op.
OR it could just be that I belive in third parties. I don’t write the articles, I just post them. I respect your opinion, but if you feel any of my articles have broken community rules, please bring to attention fo the mod team.
Okay so hear me out on this since you seem to care about third parties… I think if you legit have the objective of getting 3rd parties included long term you need to support ones that have down ballot options, the greens very rarely do but LIbertarians almost always have at least someone for governor or senate or at state levels, so while i don’t actually think Libertarians are the better option (Althought i’d rank them above Republicans), I think if you want to support the general idea of 3rd parties, the most pragmatic choice is to support libertarians. This WAS my strategy for elections I didnt care about till 2016 (i’m in a solid blue state which also plays in, I’d vote different if i wasnt).
Maybe its because I’m older, or maybe its actually just the legitimate threat of fascism, but after Trump won his first term I switched to pretty much fully supporting democrats. I’ll probably still vote third party for future elections that i think don’t matter but I consider the people behind Trump too big of a risk at this point. I think defeating Trump would actually also help Third parties in a sort of way because if he wins everyone will fall in line behind him but if he loses there will likely be a pretty big rift among the right and some portion of them are going to move to the Libertarian party.
While I’m probably more ideologically aligned with the platform of the green party, I dont think they have any realistic chance of making a positive difference. They seem to not really have great leadership or enough support to run down ballot candidates. It will be interesting to see if RFK or Cornell West do worse then Stein but I kind of doubt it
Honestly though, with biden dropping out and walz getting picket for VP, I’m genuinely optimistic about the democratic ticket now, sure they arent perfect and they will need to be under constant pressure from the left to do the right things, but personally they’ve earned my vote at this point.
Anyways, I hope you don’t get banned, I’m really curious to see what you post AFTER the election is over.
Okay so hear me out on this since you seem to care about third parties… I think if you legit have the objective of getting 3rd parties included long term you need to support ones that have down ballot options
Well I’m not going to vote for someone JUST because they are third party. They have to align with my values. The libertarians don’t align with my values, so I’m not voting for them. And the same reason I am not voting for Harris. And the same reason I am not voting for Trump.
but after Trump won his first term I switched to pretty much fully supporting democrats.
And I support and respect your choice to do that and vote for whoever you want. As I would hope you would support and respect me voting for who I would like to vote for.
Anyways, I hope you don’t get banned, I’m really curious to see what you post AFTER the election is over.
Why would I get banned? I’ve posted a few political news articles to this Lemmy political news community. And the mods have not removed them. Why? Because they fit in with the “political news” theme of this community. Why do you think I would get banned for that?
Honest question: Do you think I only post to c/politics and that I only post political articles?!
I’ve also posted education articles to Lemmy education communities, science articles to Lemmy science communities, paraprofessional articles to Lemmy paraprofessional communities.
And friend, I am older than you. I have posted about third parties and other political news to Reddit for several years before I even found Lemmy. What makes you think I am doing this for one election and then done? I also vote for Green Party members in non-presidential elections, and cover that news as well.
I have been voting since Michael Dukakis (Democratic Party) and his running mate Lloyd Bentsen ran for president in 1988.
I know that doesn’t fit your “OMG Look guys! I caught a Russian agent!!” Or the other bad guys “a China agent!!”
Why don’t you count how many third party articles are in this community, compared to pro-democrat articles in this community.
Just because I am not voting for your candidate, doesn’t mean I am part of some grand conspiracy. It’s extremely uncivil to imply that I am a russian plant. Or that I am a troll.
Also, there are lots of people interested in third parties. Hence why you all are so scared of third parties. Are they all russian plants too? What about the people who voted thrid party before the Russian Scare took over?
And lastly, this is important, I DIDN’T WRITE THE FUCKING NEWS ARTICLES!
Do you understand that? They are not some opinion pieces that I came up with. They are articles written by news organizations. If you don’t think news orgs should cover third parties, then write to them and let them know your opinion.
If you have a problem with the content of an article, please write to the editor of that news org.
If you think any of the articles I have posted don’t fit the “political news” theme of this community, then contact the mod team.
I don’t really have a problem with the posts/articles you share in general but you must realize you post a pretty large volume in general compared to the average user (politcal or not), and most of them get down voted by a lot. I think its honest of to post it all from a single account, I don’t think you are a plant but there is an arguement to be made that you are pushing forward an agenda that is, just not what people here want. I’m not saying you ARE pushing an agenda, Im just saying I can see how it might appear that way to some. Similarly to how I don’t believe RFK or Jill Stein are literally russian operatives but I do see how Putin might benefit from their actions.
I say i hope you dont get banned because its clear from all the down votes that a lot of people disagree with what you’re posting, not that I think you should be banned, but just online communities and moderators being how they are you never know. You seem genuine to me, but I’m probably in the minority on /c/politics
I don’t really have a problem with the posts/articles you share in general but you must realize you post a pretty large volume in general compared to the average user (politcal or not), and most of them get down voted by a lot.
First, how many third party articles are there compared to the number of pro-democrat/harris articles? What do you think the percentage is? In fact, just look at the percentages for the last week? There are far, far more pro-democrat/harris articles, even if you think I have posted too many.
Secondly, what would I care if they are downvoted? It’s no secret that Lemmy is very anti-third party. And in that case, if I were some Russian asset, wouldn’t I be “suicided” out a window pretty quickly, especially considering how much you all hate third parties in this sub?! lol
Do you think that this sub ONLY allows posts that will be upvoted? That wouldn’t be very democratic, would it?
I don’t think you are a plant but there is an arguement to be made that you are pushing forward an agenda that is, just not what people here want.
But I also post Libertarian articles and RFK jr/Independent articles–which takes away from Trump votes. So what do you think my “agenda” would be since I have posted articles of third parties that in theory would take way votes from BOTH parties?
Because Republican/Trumpers hate me as much as Democrat/Harris hate me. So what exactly would my agenda be? Oh! Could it be that I think that only having two major parties make all of our decisions for us is bad?
So what agenda do you think I have? Go on, say it. It’s ok, you can say it out loud. No reason to beat around the bushes…
I’m not saying you ARE pushing an agenda, Im just saying I can see how it might appear that way to some.
But you literally said "This dude is on a one man quest to promote third parties on Lemmy, and the crazy thing to me is how generally non combative and polite they are. It seems like rage bait and every one of their posts gets massive down votes but then you see their comments are all like "well I respect your opinion but I disagree’… I really can’t tell if this is just a master level troll or some deep cover Russian op." in your original post in this thread.
But now you are noting that you are not saying that I am pushing an agenda. Let’s go over the important part of your original post here: I really can’t tell if this is just a master level troll or some deep-cover Russian op.
Do you see how that could be seen as maybe you are accusing me of some agenda?
Also, it should be noted, I am not the only one who posts third-party articles, so it’s certainly not a “one-man quest.” Also, it’s not a quest. I am interested in third-party political news, this IS A POLITICAL NEWS community.
There are plenty of pro-democrat articles, isn’t some variety/diversity of voices and opinions a good thing?
I say i hope you dont get banned because it is clear from all the downvotes that a lot of people disagree with what you’re posting
Meh, I get more downvotes than upvotes, but not every single vote is down. Most of my articles to get upvoted, just that the majority of people here despise third parties, so they definitely outnumber the people more open to them.
But that won’t stop me from posting or giving my opinion, or from defending myself. This is an anonymous forum, so the popularity doesn’t really transfer over to my real life. I mean the DM’s from people saying they are going to follow me or that I get paid in “Russian bitcoins” is creepy. But still not gonna stop me.
I don’t write the articles. The articles are not opinion pieces. Just political news articles that I repost to a Lemmy political news community. Some people seem to make it their life’s choice to be mad about opposing viewpoints. I may be verbose in my replies, but I’m not so passionate about it that I am going to track people down and follow them. Unlike some of my haters. lmao
You seem genuine to me
Thanks. I am. People calling me a russian asset just because I post articles about the Green Party has zero effect on my mood or my day. :)
Just to be clear, I actually post more Socialist articles in c/socialist than I do third-party articles in c/politics. The issues discussed in the socialist comm (and c/science) are the ones I care about the most.
He barely posts any libertarian news whatsoever, and occasionally does post RFK Jr news. However, almost all the articles he selects are about conflicts they have with the dems, and he generally does not post about anything pertaining to the gop.
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