Hello Lemmings.

This is something I’ve been thinking about for a while; basically, I want to move my zwave node away from my main HomeAssistant system.

I’ll try to be brief; my current config is a single mini/micro system (Dell, I believe), Core i5, 8G RAM and an SSD, it’s a ton of power for HA and massive overkill, I know. The problem is that the system is located in a remote room of the house, so the signal isn’t exactly the best and I have some nodes that are linked through 2-3 other devices; I’d like to move the USB Z-stick to a more central location, and I don’t think a USB extension is going to cut it. I have ethernet wire which is far more viable to get a connection across to the HA computer. I don’t want to move the HA computer away from where it is, since there’s backup power where it is; so my idea would be to use something like a Raspberry Pi (now that availability seems to be improving), connected by Ethernet using PoE (for power availability from the UPS). Provided I can get a Raspberry Pi, and all the related and required parts together, which should be fairly trivial; how would I connect the zwave dongle on the Raspberry Pi to the computer running homeassistant?

I haven’t considered this before due to the pi being so difficult to get since I put together the homeassistant system. Ideally, I would want several of these systems placed at key points around the house so that I wouldn’t need any of the zwave nodes to relay communications, but that’s future plans more than anything - I would need to source several zwave dongles and get them all on raspberry pi’s and get them working together… So going about it towards that end would be a bonus; but at least I want to do some research on it and figure out if I can even relocate the dongle at all first. Any infromation to that end is appreciated.

I’m currently using ZWaveJS UI.

    • @[email protected]OPEnglish
      1•1 year ago

      this is good. I gave it a once over, but I’ll go more in-depth when I get the pi. Any tips on migrating my current zwave net over to it? or do I just need to move the dongle over? I want my HA to be disconnected from the zwave for as little time as possible; since the family is using it to control ~half of the lighting in the house at this point.

      Right now, I should just need a raspberry pi, SD card, case, and a PoE hat, maybe a USB extension for the dongle, and I should be all set to go; so I would prep most of the software on the pi before-hand, and run the config for the dongle as soon as I take it out of the HA system. I’m hoping start to finish, it would only be ~1 hr or less of downtime.

  • @bigredgiraffeEnglish
    3•1 year ago

    I have had mine set up this way for 3 or 4 years now using a raspberry pi and zwave2mqtt/zigbee2mqtt and it works very well. Both of those have their own UI though which could be better but definitely get the job done. I have the pi centrally located in my house and my home assistant machine is in a rack with the rest of my gear.

    • @[email protected]OPEnglish
      2•1 year ago

      I’m using zwavejs ui, which, AFAIK, is the “new name” for zwave2mqtt.

      I’ve been using it since I started. what I don’t know is how to get it communicating. It will all be on the same subnet, ethernet connected. Any tips/tricks/guides?

      • @bigredgiraffeEnglish
        1•1 year ago

        Hey sorry I forgot to reply yesterday. Are you talking about the add-on in hassos? How are you installing it?

        I misspoke and what I use now is zwavejs2mqtt since that came out, I used regular zwave2mqtt before zwavejs and zwavejs2mqtt existed. You are right that zwave-js/zwave-js-ui are the newer tool but zwave-js-ui isn’t exactly the same thing as zwavejs2mqtt even though they function relatively the same from a home assistant perspective and both are provided by the zwave-js project which is confusing and I had to tipple check they weren’t the same now hah. The biggest usability difference is that to add devices to it (or the zigbee equivalent) you have to use its UI and not the integrated home assistant UI as you do when you run zwave-js and zha (at least the way I have it configured, this could be possible now). Both bridges provide discovery in home assistant via MQTT though so the experience is pretty seamless once its set up, I haven’t had any issues with it.

        I don’t have a guide, I just run that docker container that I linked on a Raspberry Pi with the zwave controller plugged into it that is connected to the same MQTT server that my home assistant machine is connected to. I can grab the docker-compose file that I use on that machine if that would be helpful but its really pretty straight forward, I don’t remember needing to read any guides that I could pass along.

        Reading your post again I also wanted to mention that neither zwave nor zigbee support multiple primary controllers so you couldn’t really just set up a bunch of controllers/coordinators (coordinator is the term zigbee uses). Both protocols are designed to be mesh networks and will try to mesh as much as possible, it is really key to how they work for traffic and radio frequency congestion in addition to reliability. I know it seems annoying to do but I have had great success with using a few zwave and zigbee mains powered devices (I use zwave light switches and this zigbee plug as an example) to act as routers in both meshes and it works pretty well and I think you will have much better luck if you build your mesh that way. You may also find that most controllers/coordinators aren’t designed to have all devices connected to them in a network and won’t perform as well when configured that way but that depends on how large your mesh networks are going to be (I have 29 zwave and 65 zigbee devices currently).

        Hope that helps! Let me know if you have other questions or need more info.

        ETA: I forgot to include, I use that zigbee plug even on things that don’t need really need a switch but I want power metering on since they do that as well. I have one on a small mini-fridge for power metering and a zwave equivalent on my washing machine for cycle alerts a examples.

        • @[email protected]OPEnglish
          1•1 year ago

          The only ZigBee I have is via hue, and I’m okay with that. I’m focused on zwave, the only reason the ZigBee (hue) stuff is even here is because it was my first smart light system and the bulbs still work, over time I’ve bought more and more bulbs to satisfy needs, and now I have enough that it would be a bad idea, financially, to rid myself of them; so they stay until I decide otherwise. Mainly for separating my system from the rest of the house and because the Mrs is already used to using them.

          For zwave, I have a number of inovelli bulbs and lightswitches that serve as routers/relays for zwave, they’re not fully deployed, so the mesh isn’t as strong as it could be. I have a few areas to install that will be done soon, like the living room and rec room (I already did the majority of the bedrooms hallways and whatnot). The main issue I’m running into is that I need to turn off power to install the switches safely, and that’s always a challenge in a living household, but they’re connecting to mains power, so they act as routers all the time, even the bulbs, the switches have a “smart light” mode which keeps power on even if the lights are set to off; it’s a big reason why I chose these switches specifically. I still have some significant gaps in the mesh from the areas not currently converted. I have the bulbs and switches, so it’s just a matter of turning off the power, sorting out the wiring and getting the new switches installed, then installing the bulbs, on-boarding them to the mesh as I go, and building the relevant automation to tell HA which switches should control which lights.

          My plan was to have smart lights with switches in every area except the bathrooms and kitchen (possibly garage too) for safety reasons. I don’t want someone inadvertently (or intentionally) turning off the lights in those rooms while they’re in use, like if someone is handling a knife in the kitchen, or hot food, or if someone is in the shower, where they may trip and fall while trying to turn the lights back on while slippery and wet…

          Bedrooms, hallways, common areas, etc, are all marked for at least a switch, and usually a switch, bulbs, and a multisensor (Aeotek multisensor 7 has been my go to, but it’s not a relay), for environmental monitoring (temp, humidity, light and motion (partly for presence, I know that’s not the best indicator for presence, but still).

          Back to the matter at hand (no pun intended), the lightswitches and bulbs should be plentiful enough to act as relays/routers for the mesh when I’m done, since they’re in almost every room, on almost every wall. If I need a dedicated relay/router for an otherwise weak area, I’ll see if I can get one that’s specifically a relay/router. I know such devices exist (like the - now discontinued - Aeotec ZW189 “range extender”). I don’t think that’s going to be required.

          As for zwavejs2mqtt, as I understand it, zwavejs UI can do mqtt, but for me, I currently have it turned off, since my zwave controller is directly plugged into my home assistant. I’ll probably need to experiment a little since things are evolving so quickly and the tools are changing quite a bit.

          I appreciate that the system is not designed with multiple controllers in mind, I was thinking of it for redundancy more than anything, but that’s a fairly rare thing in consumer goods. I have backups and that will have to be good enough.

          I toyed with the idea of smart plugs, but I don’t want warts all over the walls. It’s a personal preference. I would like to have per outlet power metering, but it seems there’s few, if any, in-wall receptacles which accomplish this without significant compromise (many are only rated to 12A, won’t support inductive or reactive loads, and generally only monitor one of the two outlets in the duplex - I only want monitoring, not switching, and I don’t care if it’s for each receptacle, or both combined, but I couldn’t find something viable, and decided to go with new, standard receptacles instead. I’m planning to still do power monitoring, but at the service panel and instead monitor individual circuit loads, but I want something that’s either hardline Ethernet, or zwave and there’s not a lot of options that can monitor all circuits which meet that criteria, Aeotek has one that monitors just the service power (input at the panel from the electric service) and that’s zwave, but won’t do individual circuits, there are DIY versions, largely based on the ESP32, but they only seem to connect by WiFi, and wifi is extremely poor in the area where the service panel is (I’m also trying to keep smart home stuff off WiFi whenever I can), and I didn’t see many other options apart from that (there are some that are wifi only, and if I was going to go that way, I’d just build the ESP32 version myself).

          I’ll keep looking, but at this rate, my best solution may be a smart service panel. I want to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A as-is, so it might be the direction I go… I need a new panel anyways, might as well get one that’s better for my goals.

          I want to thank you for this very interesting conversation. This has been helpful in all respects. I appreciate your thoughts on it, and I hope you have a great day.