The more I use lemmy, the more it begins to just feel like all the same problems reddit had. It has the same problems with major communities having far left moderation standards that only apply to the right, the same hive mind users that just spam the same tired out leftist talking points over and over while refusing anything close to an actual discussion.
The only upsides are that downvotes aren’t used to punish you site wide, and the handful of non-leftist instances that exist, though they always end up defederated by all the major instances, effectively making them poor spaces for general discussion.
So what are your thoughts? Is this just the “more like under new management” from megamind? Is there hope for it to become a decent platform for everyone, not just the left?
Edit: yeah, it’s just as bad. Fuck the retarded admins and fuck the left
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It may just be that there are a lot more “leftist people” than you think there are. The world is not the U.S., and what is “left” in the U.S. is centre or even rightwing in a lot of other countries. To me, a complaint like this sounds more like “I want a far-right forum online”, in which case 4chan is probably your best bet.
Did you ever consider that maybe the majority isn’t actually that “far left”, but it is you who is so far right that everybody else looks like a raging marxist to you? There are of course tankies on here, but the vast majority seem like average ordinary people to me.
Considering both them and you openly admit to being leftists, I’m not sure why I would assume otherwise
Seriously though, 4chan is definitely your best bet. If this annoys you when I say it because you don’t want to associate with 4chan, maybe you should realize that’s how you’re coming off already.
If you don’t like talking with average people, people who most likely do not share your viewpoints, you can always stop trying if you want. I’m sure it would be appreciated.
Misrepresent me all you want pal, doesn’t make you smart
Talking with you wouldn’t make anybody smart.
Shame for you, since you seem desperate for it
People lose brain cells when they read your words.
Considering your failed attempts at debate I’ve seen the problem is you don’t actually have any defenses of your positions and when that fails you fall back on projection. If you don’t want to feel isolated then you need to actually learn and understand how to have real debates and discussions and learn how to argue in good faith. Majority of people on fediverse expect arguments to have evidence and proof and not just anecdotal emotional response statements.
Lol nice lies pal. Maybe go pester all the leftist spammers in my responses that don’t even come close to any of the standards you’re laying out. If you’re only interested in jerking yourself off, there’s dozens of other communities where all your pinko pals are already started. I have no issues with debating in good faith, I just see no reason to give any benefit of the doubt to obvious bad actors who refuse to extend good faith themselves, such as yourself.
And this is why you are downvoted and ridiculed. You have zero self awareness or critical understanding. Your insults or attempts to ridicule mean literally nothing because people need to believe you have something worthwhile to say. And so far, all you are doing is projecting and spewing made up talking points. Make no mistake, I couldn’t give two shits what you end up doing or if you stay on the fediverse at all. I would love conservatives that actually had self awareness and could debate real conservative talking points, not trumpican vitriol. So far you are just another angry trumpican spewing out unverified talking points. And at no point does that kind of hate deserve a safe space, ever. Later
I wonder what this person thinks a “leftist” is?
I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt as much as possible. But I dont believe they really think all that much on their own based on their responses.
I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt as much as possible
In what fucking universe pal. Because most people don’t consider brazenly dishonest character attacks to fall under “benefit of the doubt”
You’re not exactly the paragon of impartial argument in this thread my man. Anyone willing to read your post for anything besides laughing at your expense after your tirades here is doing you a solid.
You’ve got no evidence, no perspective, really nothing but yelling at the internet because youve got a minority position and don’t like it.
If you’ve got those things, trot them out, bro.
Edit: you have some sanely and thoughtfully written comments further down (that I would still disagree with), but the bad ones sure floated to the top.
You’re not exactly the paragon of impartial argument in this thread my man
If you could be bothered to actually read anything i wrote, I never said that every random user has to be impartial. If everyone was always impartial, there’d be nothing to discuss.
You’ve got no evidence, no perspective, really nothing but yelling at the internet because youve got a minority position and don’t like it.
Glad to know you’re just another worthless troll who has nothing but brazen misrepresentations of what I said. Sure are a lot of you here. Tell me, why do you bother coming to a community titled “conservative” if you’re neither conservative yourself, nor interested in actual discussion?
but the bad ones sure floated to the top.
Almost like you guys upvoted every jerkoff who came in here to just spam retarded garbage instead of making genuine discussion. Why should I bother investing effort in putting together genuine responses to people unwilling to do the same?
And what are you defining a leftist to be?
I personally don’t use the term; from where I sit, I see two kinds of people: Those who want to see America lead the world into the 21st century, and those who will burn the world down if they’re not allowed to drag it back to the 18th century.
Which are you?
The former, though I suspect that you and I have very different perspectives on what we should be leading the world with
Removed by mod
Lol keep up the bullshit pal, maybe you’ll earn yourself some fake internet points with it.
I just pity you. You would have better luck on Twitter or reddit with other trumpicans. No one with intelligence gives a shit about internet points, so im giving you an upvote to maybe make you feel better.
Lol keep up the bullshit pal, maybe you’ll earn yourself some fake internet points with it.
You should listen to the people you are trying to argue against. They know more than you do.
My opinion is that there are a lot of far left people here, that part is true. I consider myself a socialist, but not so far left that I can’t criticize Russia, China or North Korea that some here seem to be.
The only right-wing instance that has been defederated was exploding-heads.com. I was part of that discussion, I voted to defederate and I would do it again. It was nothing to do with their politics for me, it was all about the hate speech. The posts there specifically calling for the death of trans people, holocaust denial and other big red lines for me was why I wanted the defederation to happen.
A conservative who acknowledges that minorities have human rights and that historical events really happened is absolutely A-ok in my book. We might not agree on our politics, but it’s still a conversation worth having.
The only right-wing instance that has been defederated was exploding-heads.com. I was part of that discussion, I voted to defederate and I would do it again
True. This instance is one of the better ones in terms of defederation, but unfortunately we don’t seem to be very popular in that stance. And given the nature of social media where ability to access content is a major factor, the more large instances that defederate, the worse the system as a whole gets in terms of ability to access that content.
Personally, I support a zero defederation policy, and also have accounts on those types of instances, but they’re heavily blocked by major instances, hence why I’m still here as well. I’m excited for when better apps come out for managing multiple accounts. It’s pretty annoying to have a bunch of web apps to use each different login whenever I end up going somewhere that doesn’t have federation.
A conservative who acknowledges that minorities have human rights and that historical events really happened is absolutely A-ok in my book. We might not agree on our politics, but it’s still a conversation worth having
I find that vanishingly few actual people (major media agitators aren’t in my books) actually hold the genuine belief that minorities don’t have rights, or aren’t deserving of them. It’s just that a lot of what progressives call rights isn’t a perspective shared by much of the conservative side of things, where you’ll generally find a more limited “life, liberty, property” set of beliefs, or at least derivative thereof.
Personally, I support a zero defederation policy
That is an untenable position imho. I hate to use the tired old trope of the nazi bar, but a true free speech approach has been tried over and over again, and each and every time has resulted in the worst drek imaginable, and everybody who wasn’t ok with that sort of drek leaving. Having a community worth having a discussion in requires moderation, and that extends to federated platforms too.
I find that vanishingly few actual people (major media agitators aren’t in my books) actually hold the genuine belief that minorities don’t have rights, or aren’t deserving of them
That isn’t true from my own very subjective experiences. Quite a few don’t even consider select minorities (different ones depending on region) are even fully human.
Of course that is not universal. My own father is a conservative, and we have many a long and interesting discussion. Those people do exist, but so do those who think of minorities as sub-human.
Forgive the double commenting, lemmy doesn’t save drafts, and I don’t like losing partial comments while I close tabs.
That isn’t true from my own very subjective experiences. Quite a few don’t even consider select minorities (different ones depending on region) are even fully human
Could you give more concrete examples? I’m not particularly interested in defending (or not) the hypothetical someone, somewhere who holds some belief.
Sure! I’m Romanian, and Roma are very much discriminated against here. I have had a religious, conservative acquaintance tell me, completely straight-faced and honestly, that the targeting of Jews in the Romanian holocaust was terrible, we should have just stuck to killing as many Roma as possible. They are, according to him, completely impossible to “civilize”.
This is not an uncommon belief here.
EDIT: Let me be completely clear: I’m not saying you hold beliefs like that. I’m just saying “conservative” is a broad brush that includes both the reasonable and the terrible.
Eastern European politics be wildin’ lol. I’m American and was approaching it from a more American perspective, where such talk is uncommonly found, despite being commonly accused.
EDIT: Let me be completely clear: I’m not saying you hold beliefs like that. I’m just saying “conservative” is a broad brush that includes both the reasonable and the terrible
Agreed. In general, I’m not a fan of the relative style of political labeling because it varies so broadly over time and place since the ideas of “conservative” and “progressive” are highly dependent on the existing culture and systems of a place.
I’m perfectly fine with individual communities enforcing their own moderation policies, and individual users taking advantage of the plenty strong blocking tools at their disposal. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if people are already working on the equivalent of chain block from Twitter for lemmy already.
But at the level of federation, it represents basic fucking functionality of the site, and it should only be leveraged as a tool against things lot bot farms or the like. Why should the users who cry for moderation the moment a single thing they don’t like shows up need to run the ship? We should go back to the days of just telling them to not browse content they don’t want to browse, and to grow the fuck up.
If a jew is considering joining, and the first thing they see is a holocaust denial post on All + New, they won’t join.
Similarly, if a trans user is considering joining and they see a post calling for their death, they won’t join.
Eventually, this whittles down the users over the very long term to only those users that are ok with that. This isn’t about “a single thing they don’t like”. It’s acceptance of hate speech. I hope you can understand the difference. I myself am half Jewish, and if I felt like I was surrounded by anti-semites, I’d just pick up and leave.
Again, I do hope you can understand the difference between an unpopular opinion and hate speech.
Again, I do hope you can understand the difference between an unpopular opinion and hate speech
Yes. That said, I don’t believe the mindset of just avoiding entire platforms because of a few bad posts is a good one, and don’t do it myself.
The heavy defederated instance was better in terms of federation or did I read this wrong? What’s this post have to do with conservatism anyways? Greavence politics is annoying I’m sure if you didn’t lead with it in discussions you would get better engagement.
To me a good amount of your posts I come across seem like rage bait and that’s fine but not productive. I like talking with you, when we talk I feel like it’s generally a constructive conversation once ground rules get set and we are taking about the same issue. So I’m pretty convinced you are a real person and not a troll.
I pretty much tried to say the same thing as this on exploding heads a month ago to my friend wiggles and was immediately banned for wrong think so I donno. Pretty sure he abuses children anyways not like he even denies it or tries to hide it… Go try presenting as anything not far right on EH and see how quickly the ban hammer comes down.
Anyways you can check federation on both sides here… https://federation-checker.vercel.app/
The heavy defederated instance was better in terms of federation or did I read this wrong
My bad if I wrote it vaguely, I meant that this instance is good in terms of generally being federated by other instances and having minimal defederations from our end.
What’s this post have to do with conservatism anyways
I was hoping for some general discussion on the topic since a lot of people are here from reddit. Reddit had a pretty strong bias against anything right wing, both in terms of community opinions, and in terms of admin actions, and I wanted to see other people’s opinions on if lemmy was heading in the same direction to effectively be the exact same shit as reddit, just different management. We definitely aren’t there yet, but given the general way things are going here, I wouldn’t be surprised if we got there within a year or two.
The reason I think it merits discussion is that I find the tendency towards online echo chambers to be a troubling direction for the internet, and I hoped that federated spaces could alleviate the issue to some extent. Like yeah, I can always just hop between places like this and exploding heads, but hopping between opposing echo chambers isn’t exactly good discussion.
Greavence politics is annoying I’m sure if you didn’t lead with it in discussions you would get better engagement.
Unless we’re operating under an extremely broad definition of greavance politics such that anything anyone expresses dissent towards counts, I wouldn’t generally consider my comments to be greavance politics, at least any more than what my counterparts on the left post 24/7 on this instance. And personally, I don’t see any need to censor myself to appease people unwilling to do the same.
I like talking with you, when we talk I feel like it’s generally a constructive conversation once ground rules get set and we are taking about the same issue. So I’m pretty convinced you are a real person and not a troll.
I’m on sites like this primarily for my own personal enjoyment, so when someone is actually interested in having genuine discussion, I’m all for it. But I’m not here to be a teacher or whatever, so when all the worthless rats crawl out of the woodwork to spam “muh fascism” or whatever other buzzwords they’ve been fed by CNN, take your pick from almost every other comment in this post, I have no interest in trying to reason them out of a position that wasn’t reached through reason. Because frankly, the last thing I want is for social media to feel like a job.
- thanks I read it wrong I guess.
- I think part of this is the right gravitated to echo chambers. Like truth and parlor or the .win sites. Honestly most the things from the “right”(I guess?) Seem like trolls and I’m pretty sure most the accounts are you excluded. Or weird reactionarys probably the most annoying political group… I wish the right would just disown them like the qtards they are pretty annoying and dumb.
- it’s more like you make any statement related or not and get a “what about hunters laptop” on an unrelated topic about Killary from 8 years ago. I’m sure you know the feeling from your side/types of conversations. Everything is oppressing or censoring me when I say insane off topic rage bait things etc. I could find examples but mostly it just results in someone spamming reports in the community I moderate if I push back at all. It’s annoying and unproductive not a way to build bridges or win hearts and minds.
- no comment on that one see number 3 😊.
Anyways hope you are having a good day. I was just confused on the EH being more federated statement and trying to sort of stand up for you. Echo chamber = bad.
I think part of this is the right gravitated to echo chambers
I mean yeah, but not particularly as a first choice. Reddit has long been hostile to the right, and frequently would ban users and communities that didn’t fall in line with the approved narrative, and reddit was really the major platform where most people went for content in that part of social media, so alternatives were naturally people who had a reason to not be on reddit, which up until this month and the api disaster, was almost exclusively just being right wing.
Seem like trolls and I’m pretty sure most the accounts are you excluded.
Sorry, this sentence doesn’t parse for me. Like, I get all the words, but they don’t come together to one coherent meaning when I read it. Can you rephrase?
I wish the right would just disown them like the qtards they are pretty annoying and dumb.
And how often would you personally be voting for right wing candidates if this happened? Would you be out campaigning for DeSantis if he focused his efforts on trying to purge wrong think from the party? If not, it just seems stupid to intentionally burn bridges with voters at the behest of people who oppose the right regardless.
it’s more like you make any statement related or not and get a “what about hunters laptop” on an unrelated topic about Killary from 8 years ago
As far as I can recall, all my participation here has been pretty solidly on topic and relevant to the post at hand. Like yeah, there’s plenty of people on both sides who do this shit and it’s annoying as hell, but it’s hardly in either of our control so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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I don’t really know I miss reddit when it wasn’t filled with policies and weird flame wars. I mostly went on reddit to read crazy people like the gangstalking reddit or weird obscure drug communities, or the qtards in tga before they got banned for posting Csam(to save the children…) and NCD after the war started… Isn’t spez a libertarian who lives in a missile silo?(living the dream…) Really don’t have much to say on reddit politics outside of it’s annoying and unavoidable. I never even had a verified reddit account I only used the account for lurking private communities.
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example of a troll and probably not a real person would be theblackconservitive user on this server. People like that are annoying as hell. I’m pretty sure he’s not American black or a conservative and never voted for Trump. Just here to sow division as part of some fun global psyop. Pretty sure you are a real person with original thoughts etc…
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I used to primary with the Republicans up until trump steered the party off a cliff. Before that I was a pretty solid libertarian or Republican voter in general elections. Usually picked the “best person” like Gary Johnson in 2016… But being constantly called a far leftists when I have any bad think made me decide not to associate with the authoritarian party… Honestly the whole field of them currently are bootlickers and grifters it would be interesting(funny) if I didn’t have to live here and it didn’t directly impact my life. I don’t really hold any party in high regard currently… if anything the last few years helped me find solidarity with anti authoritarian people both left and right, people generally have the same end goals and argue over the starting line. The Koch brothers really did a number to the gold and black…
Remember “take the guns first due process later” = strong on protecting gun rights 😂. The double think is weird and I’m sure I also do it like every human.
- yeah your like an actual human worth engagement with. Like I’m sure in real life we would actually get along pretty well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Reddit always had political stuff, but it really only became the forefront of everything around 2016. That said, it was always a bit slanted.
I really don’t know if it’s spez who really pushed it to be shit, or any of the other people who have some power at reddit, but they’ve been pushing discourse solidly leftward for a while now. They still have to pretend to be at least vaguely neutral to prevent reddit (as a company) from nosediving, but they’ve gradually been using the rules as a weapon against the right through uneven enforcement. Remember, r/nonewnormal was banned because users also sometimes participated on other subreddits (ie the natural way people use reddit), and this was considered brigading. On the other hand, subreddits literally dedicated to nothing but brigading like r/subredditdrama get by with simply saying “don’t brigade” while their users do it constantly.
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I might just be an extremely complex network of bots. Beep boop
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Thats fair. The reason I asked is because the overwhelming majority of the people I find talking about how this or that group needs to clean house would never have voted for them anyway, and it’s just an excuse to avoid discussing policy.
Personally, I treat voting as a strategic thing. I don’t particularly care who I’m voting for most of the time, or what they believe, but mostly just how they’re going to cast their votes in congress or how far they’ll abuse executive powers. Not particularly a fan of either big party, but at least the Republicans have been getting a few things right recently, primarily with court appointments and reliably killing basically everything in congress
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Cope
Top tier productive discussion from leftist bot 184829
Beep boop turning you gay.
Wow dude you’re really into hentai huh?
Is lemmy just going to become reddit 2.0?
No. Lemmy is federated so it’s not going to run into the same problem of unabashed capitalists trying to eke out every of cent of profit they can from the platform. It has built in protections against all the things that ruined reddit.
Oh, you were talking about all the good points of reddit? Lol.
Lmao at least you’re honest enough to admit that reddit had a massive bias issue, even if you consider it a good thing
I’m not sure what you’re expecting. You joined a platform that is left leaning and expect what, everyone to self censor for your benefit? If you’re looking for a conservative safe space, you might want to try exploding-heads.
I wish I could expect the inverse of people like you - dishonest trolls who contribute nothing except brazen misrepresentations
Lmao at least you’re honest enough to
people like you - dishonest trolls
I’m getting whiplash here.
Edit: I was sent scat porn after this exchange. Nice company you keep, there.
Lol not my fault the instance has a spam problem. Everyone here gets sent those scat messages. But how expected of you to just try and dishonestly pin everything you don’t like on me.
Yeah, you’re right, it’s surely just a coincidence.
Yeah. You seriously think I set up an instance wide spam ring that’s been running for days just to preemptively have an excuse to send you, specifically, a message?
Yeah, that happens when you immediately pivot to being a dishonest sack of shit
Point to this dishonesty. I literally asked what you expected. I didn’t make a statement of fact. Is asking you poignant questions dishonest?
You’re in a leftist platform complaining about left leaning bias. Do you expect that everyone should pretend to be a centrist for your convenience?
Point to this dishonesty. I literally asked what you expected. I didn’t make a statement of fact. Is asking you poignant questions dishonest?
I never claimed not indicated the left should censor themselves for me. That was entirely a lie you made up. I never said I was looking for a safe space. Yet another lie you made up. I’m not the one responsible for NSFW spam on the instance. Another lie you made up.
Depends if more dipshit conservatives join. You can’t just virtue signal over at reddit where everyone loves you? Dumb pricks.
I think it’s because the initial lemmy launch was very leftist-oriented, so most people who used it early on were probably quite leftist. Basically as Voat was to the far right, so is lemmy to the far-left.
Add to that Reddit and lemmy both cater to younger people, and younger people tend to skew left, you’re left with a very left-leaning audience.
So these leftist early adopters snapped up the popular names for communities, so we’re left with a leftist culture on the site, even as right-leaning people later on come to the platform.
At least that’s my take. And honestly, as a libertarian, I’m okay with it. I’m pretty good at filtering out biases, so I ignore the worst of it and try to give another perspective in areas that seem more open. I hate echo chambers of all varieties, so I also generally avoid the libertarian ones as well (i.e. /r/libertarian on Reddit as a cesspool). I dislike conservative politics, but I also dislike progressive politics and prefer an actual focus on small government that respects individual rights. Sometimes conservatives get that right, sometimes liberals do, and I’m up for discussing it in both cases.
Yeah, I don’t actually care that much if the community skews left, my main concern is how moderation ends up on major communities and instances. Specifically as to whether they act like reddit did, feigning neutrality to maintain appearances while the weaponizing the rules against the right.
I don’t think they really did that though. Maybe on some subs, but any unequal moderation is much easier to chalk up to subconscious biases than anything intentional (i.e. it’s easier to overlook rule breakage for a cause you agree with and enforce rules for causes you don’t). There are even laws on the books that police don’t need to apply justice equally, only that they need to apply them lawfully (i.e. it’s not a problem to hand out tickets to black people more frequently than white people, provided the tickets are legally valid).
The fact that it’s federated and anyone can start their own instance that can interact with any other instance unless the admins defederate from them will solve most of the problems.
dem. socialism is centre-left at best… stop looking at everything through the Trump-esque “”“Radical left”“”. I know you’re a conservative, but people all around the political spectrum want to spend more on better public healthcare, slam down on gun violence, improve democracy.
Curious why you came to a three month old post just to leave a comment that’s entirely irrelevant
I’m working on a Lemmy instance just for conservatives so that moderation and unjustified censorship will not be a problem anymore. The server is hosted in Kentucky in a datacenter run by conservative friends.
I started working on it since lemmy.world banned me and either took over or deleted the communities that I created. None of them promoted any extreme views, just normal political stuff. I didn’t break any of their actual rules. Their reasoning: spreading fake news.
Lemmy is definitely left leaning like most other “communities” on the internet but its nowhere near as bad as reddit and hopefully will not turn into that. You would probably enjoy gab if you are looking for somewhere that is friendly to conservatives, religion and free speech.
The reason I raised the concern is because even though we aren’t there yet, a significant portion of the user base seems to be trying to bring the platform in the same exact direction as reddit. Personally, I want it to become a platform where everyone can, and most importantly, does, participate. If I was just looking for the right wing equivalent of what people do here I wouldn’t be posting here at all.
