I’m reminded of one of my old memes when I see people in power pull shit like this.
People can’t revolt if you force them to have to fight for their right to even exist first.
Or maybe fascists are just transphobic bigots who want to torture and kill trans people because, well, they’re fascists, it’s what they do?
You need to understand the far right doesn’t give a damn about economic issues. Not one crap. (Because most far-right supporters are middle-class or higher, for the record!) They want power for one reason, and one reason only: to lord it over the minorities they consider their inferiors, if not outright killing them.
This isn’t a “distraction”, it’s the fucking goal.
Why not both? Far right movements, at least as far back as the transition of the Tories into the conservative party in the early 1800s, have been lead by the interests of the ultra rich. Far right “philosophy” has always been to their service, whether its regressive “economics” of Malthus or the complete fiction of scientific racism. Almost definitionally, there isn’t a far right movement without a ruling class that it supports and is supported by; that’s what they are trying to “conserve”.
Part of this is having a permanent underclass. Or more than one. Just as the “middle class” is under the ruling class, the under class must be beneath them. This is part of the conservative mindset, which again is created and nurtured by the ruling class for this purpose. The difference between garden variety conservatives and fascists, in this regard, is simply that fascists want the elimination of the permanent underclass.
the whole point of conservatism is to preserve the social order as is.
Fair enough. I just get pissed when people like OP suggest bigotry only exists because Economically Anxious^TM people are being manipulated by The Elites^TM. Anyone who’s interacted with well-off people for longer than a few minutes knows being economically secure doesn’t magically make you not a bigot anymore.
And I hate the implication bigotry is somehow “less important” an issue than economic inequality. Especially since the two are so intimately intertwined, especially in the US, it’s impossible to make progress tackling one without tackling the other.
I’m not LGBT or anything so I do have a bias, this is mostly something I observed from my time with the upper-middle class. Up until maybe 2014, while these people were far from saints, they seemed to be far more passive about social issues beyond the economics. Then the misinformation age hit and their opinions went from ‘I don’t want to pay the medical expenses of the poor’ to ‘I don’t want to pay for someone’s gender reassignment surgery’. The bigotry seemed to be at the forefront once the billionaire controlled media told them it should be. While yes I’m sure there’s a lot of pure bigotry, I’d expect there to be less if billionaires weren’t around to sway.
This is just a chicken and egg situation on the cause so sorry if I was underplaying the bigotry aspect.
Yes, because in 2015 gay marriage was legalized.
I guarantee these people were absolutely as shitty about LGBTQ+ issues before 2015, they just talked about them less frequenly around you since they didn’t have to think about gay people too often. But I guarantee they were just as horrible towards gay people back then-- if not moreso, since they thought they could get away with the toxicity since no one cared-- as they are today.
Source: was woman with a ton of LGBTQ+ friends before 2014. Bigotry hasn’t gotten any worse since then, just louder. (And the good news is the reason the bigots have gotten louder is because more normies are becoming tolerant or accepting of LGBTQ+ people, causing the remaining bigots to realize they’re losing control of society and flip the hell out!)
As if that is the biggest problem with Russia right now
LGBT laws and talks are pulled out by the right/far-right when there are shitstorms incoming. It’s literally a giant “Press in case of emergency” button, alongside immigration, etc
To distract people from more important issues, you mean?
Yes.
The Hungarian anti-LGBT law was made in response of financial troubles, labor safety issues, dismantling of the public education and healthcare system, record corruption, the Kaleta case (in which a Hungarian diplomat only received a pitiful fine for CSEM possession, while being in Peru), and the real threats children face from the low age of consent of 14.
Yea think so. A society that always talks about the issues of the right, is a society where the right always wins.
There is no “more important issue” than protecting fundamental human rights, including fundamental human rights of LGBTQ+ people.
c/whoosh?
More like pulling this crap that would have people protesting in the streets in peacetime at wartime when people have bigger things to worry about.
Yeah
This is completely false, going after trans people was literally one of the first thing the Nazis did.
LGBTQ+ people aren’t a “distraction” from “more important issues”, they are real human beings with real lives who fascists love to fuck with for no other reason than they’re bullies.
Dude, LGBT isn’t just “trans people”. nobody is arguing that LGBT ppl aren’t human beings with feelings, but they are easy scapegoats (alongside immigrants etc) to distract people from real problems… unless you consider LGBT people or immigrants or whatever to be problems at all, which are not hence the “distraction”; I wouldn’t be surprised if Putin personally didn’t give a fuck about lgbt people
Nazi germany is a very poor example for your point since Jews, LGBT etc were easy scapegoats for the terrible situations they were in after WW1. You don’t even have to go that far either, look at US, Italy etc that have gone (far-)right and the discussion is always about immigration, LGBT people and other stuff that makes no sense and is either a very small problem or not a problem at all
tldr: governments use easy answer to redirect people’s anger towards made-up problems, so that they don’t really think how fucked they are
Scapegoating isn’t the “oh shit” emergency tactic of the right tho, it’s the first move they play.
Agreed completely. How is it possible people still don’t realize that with fascists, the cruelty is the point? Torturing minorities isn’t a “distraction”, it’s the goal. They will happily destroy their own economic standing for the chance to oppress The Other.
Ignorance is strength.
The nukes are their primary strength
As if they work. I’ll take the bet none of em are functional. Not with Russia’s extreme corruption.
This mentality is basically “fuck diplomacy, go monke”
Classic throwback meme reference
I definitely don’t want to take that bet
No one said it’s the biggest issue, no one said there aren’t other, bigger issues.
I’m saying it’s among the biggest issues! A fascist regime going after one of the most vulnerable classes of citizens, how is that anything other than a colossal issue?
I think you might have misunderstood my comment, I wasn’t saying that this law isn’t an issue, I agree that it’s a huge issue.
It is not an issue at all, except to bigots. And to bigots it is the biggest issue, until they are attracted to another non-existant issue by the social media propaganda accounts which they follow.
Great now maybe some Americans will migrate there
Yes, please!
We’re not sending our best
You have now been granted the first ever lemmy award for your quality and based comment. 🎖
If only.
Cis people: doing whatever they want including things that could be considered inmoral
Government: that’s completely normal
Trans people: exist
Government: wait that’s illegalRussian army: Bombs and kidnaps children
Government: Special military exercise, totally justified.
Trans people: Exist
Government: How horrible! Won’t anyone think of the children?
I’m pretty sure they don’t care about children
As if Putin didn’t already give us enough reasons to hate him.
He really is determined to follow in all of Hitler’s footsteps, huh. Well, hopefully he’ll follow Hitler right to the same ending.
That would be meta considering the Russians were the ones who got to hitler, shortly after he killed himself.
Is this a way to curry favour with the GOP and getting them to agitate for fewer/no supplies to Ukraine?
good point
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Pure speculation: could this have been motivated, to any extent, by some desire to maintain a predictable portion of the population conscriptable, given that only men are conscripted?
The war isn’t going quite in the way Putin would have hoped, after all.
No.
This is about social conformity and giving the public an enemy to hate.
I find it interesting and sad that yet again, our traitor politicians follow the same plan as Putin.
This time it was the other way around, Putin and his coneys never cared about it until culture war monsters from the west started their current round. There are some speculation that they started it with the help of russian troll farms, but it’s hard to tell
I think you might be forgetting about the clown picture of him that sent him on a tirade. https://time.com/4728422/russia-putin-clown-lbtq-court/
Oh, all of them were always extremely homophobic, it’s an oldest Russian tradition that come from prison culture. For the “deep russian”, the part of russian culture that Putin represents, being gay is the worst thing that can happen. But they never focused on trans identities that much before
It’s a drop in the bucket in that sense, but, what’s a target of this law, yet another win over ‘deranged west’ and it’s agenda.
Most of the time people with gender dysphoria don’t even know what’s that, can hardly find a community, realize they are not cis, start a course of costy tabs, believe they can aquire a legal status from that state – all that with still being there, working, meeting people. It was a surprise to many this loophole existed. And it’s still required a doc confirming you have a mental illness.
Cis men won’t even try that for our right-wing politics and propaganda, they would rather break a leg than that, or just wait it out.
And no, there are a lot of people still availiable for service. Minority of transwomen wouldn’t do any weather. But I’m fucking crumble inside imagining any of them being mobilized into a typical men environment. It’s a death sentence.
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Imagine siding with a war criminal hell bent on destroying not only his neighbor’s house but his own house too.
Don’t be a fucking idiot, nothing is being pushed on kids other than acceptance and tolerance of others. Which ironically, for the most part they already understand. They’re brainwashed to hate, just like you were.
Go back to whatever hole you crawled out of.
Well that’s bullshit.
Also anyone anti-woke is by definition must fall into a category of pro slavery, pro women not being able to vote, anti civil rights, pro totalitarianism… and the list would go on. Anti-woke would mean asleep and letting the world piss all over you and you never even noticing.
But sure though, hold onto your “programed” terms like woke and ride them into your ignorant rabbit hole.
Guys, please. Do not turn lemmy into Reddit.
In what way is someone making Lemmy like Reddit?
Also anyone anti-woke is by definition must fall into a category of pro slavery, pro women not being able to vote, anti civil rights, pro totalitarianism… and the list would go on
That’s the weirdest and stupidest assumption I have ever read. I am actually pro women and i am defending their rights. People that believe that men can be women and thus allows them in female competitions and then this “women” set new records impossibles to achieve by a real women. You and most people like you don’t even know how much is that offensive towards women. I will not answer on the other points since your assumption is just so ridiculous but then I am the one “programmed” to think that but surely you are not programmed to make that assumption as soon as you see the slightest thing against LGBT, LMAO.
Anti-woke would mean asleep and letting the world piss all over you and you never even noticing.
Funny thing is that from my point of view you like most people that think like you are “asleep and letting the world piss all over you and you never even noticing”
I am a woman and your opinion sucks. Just what percentage of people who transitioned do you think compete in sport at professional level? That’s a completely invalid reason to make it illegal for people to transition. You can disagree with having transitioned women compete in women sport, but it’s a completely different matter from the anti human rights and freedom of choice view point to stop people who want to from transitioning. It’s ridiculous this even need to be spelled out to you.
Moreover, this sounds like it stems from your insecurity more than anything, and I don’t believe that is at all a valid reason for gate keeping people. And should I mention how you lump the whole LGBTQ in the issue you have with just transpeople? You’re just hating (or conditioned to hate) and it’s petty.
Let’s go a step further, there are non binary people out there. Are you going to hate on them just because they are born that way? It’s fucking stupid.
It’s ridiculous this even need to be spelled out to you
Another incorrect assumption.
this sounds like it stems from your insecurity
So to make a summary, for you people I am insecure, pro slavery, against women be able to vote, anti civil rights and pro totalitarianism. Anything else?
Are you going to hate on them just because they are born that way.
Incredible, guess what? Another incorrect assumption. When did i express hate? The only one here receiving hate It’s me and i am being hated by the people who profess to spread love.
Another incorrect assumption.
And yet no reasoning given. A rather pointless response. It suggests you don’t have reasons to support your hate.
So to make a summary, for you people I am insecure, pro slavery, against women be able to vote, anti civil rights and pro totalitarianism. Anything else?
How about you stop victimising yourself and reason something meaningful for a chance? Apparently, it’s okay for you to say the side you disagree with is getting brainwashed (remember, you used the word first), and mutilating themselves (also, your word, which is wrong btw), but it’s not okay for other sides to say the same to you? Quite a hypocrite we have here.
When did i express hate?
Literally the points you are expressing. You are supporting making choices illegal to people. Choices that are extremely meaningful to some. You are encouraging their persecution.
The only one here receiving hate It’s me and i am being hated by the people who profess to spread love.
Again, stop victimising yourself LMAO.
And yet no reasoning given
i was about to but you are so full of yourself and your opinions that you won’t listen/understand. Anyway since you asked (not even in a gentle and reasonable way) here it is: I think Putin signed that law to put a stop to the spread of the LGBT culture in Russia because in US, Canada, UK and other countries are indoctrinating children by teaching 5 years old Gender and gender ideology (this is my opinion, you may like it or not but should be respected). A couple of weeks ago I was speaking with a canadian man, transitioned to woman (with hormones) and he was wondering if he should go to surgery for sex change but he was unsure. He told me he is confused (HIS WORDS), and then he proceeded to told me he was tricked (tricked is how he feels, i’m going to explain it later) by doctors into the transition process who didn’t mention not even ONE of the side effects of taking hormones (like the bones and joints pain that is chronic and will never go away). He felt tricked because every doctor and psicologyst with whom he spoke was very happy to make him transition but when he started to question the process, and started to ask to revert the process he is suddenly left alone. This was his experience is a summary, or at least is the summary of the summary he told me.
And before you people lecture me on how i am misgendering him: he stopped taking hormones to be a man again. (I am walking on egg shells… XD)
How about you stop victimising yourself
You are so good on judging people that you don’t even realize I was mocking.
which is wrong btw
It’s an actual fact.
Choices that are extremely meaningful to some
If this choice is so important couldn’t them go transition in another country?
stop victimising yourself
here, again, I wasn’t victimizing but was questioning your, and other people that replied to me, behavior, you are not capable of having a conversation without insulting (this was another point a wanted to prove, proved right again, sadly). And for quoting you “It’s ridiculous this even need to be spelled out to you”.
EDIT:
I almost forgot to mention this (it’s too juicy to let it slide):
And yet no reasoning given. A rather pointless response. It suggests you don’t have reasons to support your hate.
One of your answers was literally: “I am a woman and your opinion sucks.” 🤡
I really don’t want to be mean but after getting insulted for things i haven’t said, after being lectured by you that I am not capable of giving a proper answer I am really sad to say that you are a clown. The only thing I want to add is that I hope that you learnt something today.
So you are saying you are woke when it comes to women’s rights.
Also it is widly agreed that trans won’t compete competitively in professional sports for women.
If you don’t want people to see you as being against/for said things, don’t say you are.
The point was don’t say pushing woke shit on people and not realize that means pushing anti-slavery values and equal rights for women, etc.
If you don’t want people to see you as being against/for said things, don’t say you are
So if a person is against something he shouldn’t express his opinion? What about freedom of speech? I basically said “good thing that children of 12 years old can’t go into the transition process, a process that can mutilate them for life for a choice they are not ready to make” I was LITERALLY called a “insecure, pro slavery, against women be able to vote, anti civil rights and pro totalitarianism”, I was surprised to not being called a “bigot” but there are a few comments that i haven’t read yet. How in the world is this behaviour ok? The people who said that to me, including the people who brainlessly upvoted them are toxic and moreover are promoting a toxic behaviour.
Why LGBT people want to their opinion respected and then proceed to not respect other people opinion? When i posted the comment I was fully aware of the outcome and just wanted to prove a point. (BTW i was hoping for a less toxic community at least here on Lemmy, i was proved wrong sadly).
Also it is widely agreed that trans won’t compete competitively in professional sports for women
Yeah, they should be banned unfortunately just a few days ago a transgender man won Miss Netherlands. How come it is widely agreed and then LGBT community doesn’t speak up against this? I am genuinely asking, i’m trying to have a pacefull conversation here, but I still need to dodge insults…
Let me play it back.
-
Woke is to be aware / including being against slavery and for human rights.
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You said you were against people “pushing woke”
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That means you would be against people pushing awareness for womens rights and anti slavery.
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I was saying don’t say you are against people pushing woke if you are not under those beliefs.
That is all. Media such as Fox news and politicians are intentionally trying to distort a term and make it hated. Then trying to put things they don’t like under that term to make people not like those things.
It’s like me saying I am against the use of the color red, and wondering why red shirts fall under that.
It would be nice if people would stop from distorting my words for proving their points, It doesn’t make you look good at all, but otherwise.
First of all I never said I am anti woke, at maximum I am against LGBT forcing their opinions on other people without respecting others opinion and morality.
Media such as Fox news and politicians are intentionally trying to distort a term and make it hated. Then trying to put things they don’t like under that term to make people not like those things.
We agree on this point buddy, everyone should stop watching propaganda channels like Fox, BBC, CNN and others. They want us to fight between us so we are not able to focus on real problems and on the real war that needs to be fought, a class war.
I wanted to test the waters to see if people were ready to have a peaceful and understanding conversation. You are not ready, I hope one day you will otherwise will be a loss for everyone and the billionaires in control of everything will win.
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“the west” you ever hear of Thai ladyboys you fucking dunce
It’s a good decision IMO. Some would argue voluntary surgery is okay but it’s just a giant can of worms.
Another giant can of worms is deciding which individuals get to choose what to do with their bodies.
You already can’t have a doctor amputate your healthy limb.
That’s not what’s happening. No child under 18 is receiving any surgical services to transition.
If you are talking about adults, fuck right off with that. Men have their tits removed all the time to conform more to their idea of gender, and women have both removal and additions to the same. That’s not to mention the plethora of other cosmetic surgeries available to consenting adults.
This shit is 100% because regressive troglodytes need a Boogeyman, and no one is scared of generic gays anymore, so they needed a smaller subsection of the population to rile the masses up without risk that they might be friends already. Y’all are losing the culture war, so you want to make sure everyone else is as miserable as you are so that you can point to suicide rates and blame us for your abuse.
No child under 18 is receiving any surgical services to transition
But they can get hormone therapy that will stop forever their development phase, not to mention all the side effects (they never mention the permanent side effects nor even the risk of getting side effects, for what i saw is about 60%, but take that with a pinch of salt). They are children, they ARE NOT ready for that choice, like they are not ready to smoke, get a tattoo or own a firearm. It’s just common sense.
EDIT: almost forgot to say that in some states children can get hormone therapy without parents consent. This is absurd.
Absolutely false. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075
Look, you may have been lied to. Whoever or wherever told you this is permanent is using your anger and well placed desire to not see people get hurt to push their own agenda.
Please read up on this from non-right wing news sources. Medical sources, and direct stories from patients both young and hold. See how this stuff actually impacts people, because the points your making are well crafted astroturfing.
Well if you take hormones during puberty this will stop body development. And if you change your mind later and stop taking hormones your body won’t grow because time has come.
If only a doctor would amputate your head, so you could stop filling the world with your ignorance.
What I’m saying is that you already can’t have a medical professional do whatever you want on your body. Can’t even sell your organs!
Don’t bother to explain they only get what they want to get, I just proved this point here in the comments
Yes, but transgender medical care is actually seen as a medically necessary procedure for certain people. If your arm had to be amputated for some medical reason, would you use the same argument as you do for transgender people?
You ever heard of liposuction? Botox? Nose reductions?
yeah, what a shame lol
There have been cases of individuals with BID (body integrity disphoria) that have had perfectly healthy limbs removed. Gender reassignment surgeries are also a replacement, not just an amputation. At the end of the surgery, the patient will still have perfectly working genitals, just ones that don’t damage their mental health.
Perfectly working genitals? You can’t be serious??
