- cross-posted to:
- europeanfederalists
- cross-posted to:
- europeanfederalists
Ukrainian president calls on countries to step in before troops sent to Russia by Pyongyang reach battlefield
Ukraine’s president urged allies to stop “watching” and take steps before North Korean troops deployed in Russia reach the battlefield, while the army chief said his troops were facing “one of the most powerful offensives” by Moscow since the full-scale war began.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy raised the prospect of a pre-emptive Ukrainian strike on camps where the North Korean troops are being trained and said Kyiv knows their location. But he said Ukraine can’t do it without permission from allies to use western-made long-range weapons to hit targets deep inside Russia.
“But instead … America is watching, Britain is watching, Germany is watching. Everyone is just waiting for the North Korean military to start attacking Ukrainians as well,” Zelenskyy said in a post late on Friday on the Telegram messaging app.
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It is highly unlikely North Korea will cross the Ukrainian border. Putin can let them do defense while Russians do the offense. As we have learned in the middle east, defending and enabling war criminals does not equate being complicit in their war. Don’t ask me how that works.
So having western troops in Ukraine should also be fine if they stop at the russian border right?
We don’t want that
Who’s “we”? Sounds like a proportionate response to me.
I wouldnt be presumptious enough to say we, but I would really prefer the war not escalate further. Im all in for ukraine, and definitely fuck east-ukraine, but I don’t want American troops deployed in ukraine outside of advisory and training positions. I dont have great jusitifcations as to why, politics are hard, but I don’t feel its the US’ job to directly police the rest of the world, so Id prefer us to not directly combat other countries unless they’ve directly attacked us.
History certainly has a role to play here, which sucks because its always been my worst subject, but an eye for an eye seems to be at odds with peace which is obviously ideal. That is why I said my justifications arent great. It doesnt help that I do support foreign benevolent intervention, but not directly through force. And, as always, defining ‘benevolent’ in terms of an authoritarian regime engaging in foreign intervention of any kind is… difficult.
Edit: i forgot to mention: what we should be doing is allowing ukraine use of any non-warcrime western version of any weapon that east-ukraine is confirmed to use against them. We should also be quietly investing massive amounts of cyber resources into disabling russias nuclear launch systems and crippling putins stranglehold on their government by fucking with his finances specifically.
As the phrase goes, Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war).
Russia doesn’t care that you want peace. They don’t care how nice you are. They care if they’re going to lose. Putin wants power, and if he is going to lose that power he’ll stop this war. There are many ways to do this, but I’m not opposed to NATO troops helping out. If Russia brings in foreign troops, that’s more than enough justification for NATO to get more directly involved too.
We won’t have peace by asking nicely. We’ll have peace by ensuring an end to the invasion. If Russia wins then they’ll continue. Ukraine winning is the only outcome that can bring peace.
The issue is that a direct war with russia would lead to the next world war guaranteed. It may not be nuclear, but it likely will. Even if it wasnt, an invasion of russia would be possibly the most difficult, drawn out, and costly war the US has ever faced.
I don’t think so. I believe Russia would say that, but I don’t think that is accurate. China likely wouldn’t back them up because they’d have nothing to gain. They’d rather try to gain influence over whoever takes over after Putin.
I agree with you on preferring the US sending support to Ukraine in the form of equipment and strategic guidance instead of troops at this stage. European countries have a different balance of considerations due to their proximity to Russia, and I trust them to make the right choice on the level of support to provide.
This will start ww3.
Sorry but Ukraine is not my problem, no matter how the military industrial complex tries to push the narrative.
The rise of ductators who want to seize other countries’ territories is your problem, and the sooner it’s stopped, the better it is.
When will it become your problem? I think you’re a US citizen so probably for you Lisbon (in Portugal, extreme West of Europe) could have Russian troops in it and you still wouldn’t care, right?
Well, thinking this way has proven to be so wrong because sooner or later you will be the next in line.
“Czechoslovakia is not my problem” vibes. How did that end up?
Everyone tries to find some historical parallels.
There aren’t any, completely different times and different situation.
It wouldn’t start ww3, Russia is a joke power, they’d fold faster than superman on laundry day.
They are not serious people.
I think they absolutely will.
And Biden as well believes that and repeatedly said that he believes that.
All the red lines were talked over in private prior to 2022.
BTW, ww3?
We are literally infinitely more powerful than the worthless pieces of shit, and they will just keep needling us and trying to provoke responses elsewhere until we finally turn and stomp their balls in.
This is how they work ‘escalate to deescalate’, because they believe everyone else is weak, only they are truly strong, so everyone will always back down.
The nazis were exactly the same. We are still shamed for waiting as long as we did to do what was right.
We need to teach them a lesson in a language they understand. Pain and terror.
When was the last time the west won a war?
When’s the last time Russia did?
We won both world wars.
China, otoh lost to Vietnam.
But I’m sure Russia is so confident, they should attack, let’s see how this goes, should be quick.
You are repeating propaganda lines from bygone days.
US can’t even build a hypersonic missile, after Iran, north korea China and Russia have already possessing them for years.
Our nukes are obsolete and so far US just started arsenal update. It’s gonna take a lot of time, years.Also - US capitalists sold out it’s manufacturing to China, so what are u gonna do when China sanctions you? New genius capitalist idea - move manufacturing to India hahhahahhaha. Can’t make this shit up. Build up India too.
Just remember - Biden knows the real situation, and he’s sitting tight and not making too much noise.
Oh dude, oh dude.
You have no idea.
We need to go to war, we absolutely need to go to war.
You think we’re as broken and pathetic as Russia is? Really?
We need to make an example.
They said they’d use nukes if Russian territory was violated.
They’re Russians, all talk, no balls.
And I would never send troops.
But we should send bombers and erase any ground forces like we were having fun, they’re a joke country and 50 years behind us, they cannot stop us.
End the war now, don’t let it drag on, that is the larger risk.
If the sentiment is that they won’t you’d better just sucker punch them. I mean, the whole world wasn’t expecting Russia to invade, especially at the time they decided. If they’re in Russia they’re fair game imo. It’s war, don’t offer concessions, if you can kill them in their sleep you just do it and you’re glad it wasn’t you first. Nightly drones now, or air raid sirens all night later, such is life
The US warned repeatedly that Russia was going to invade.
I’m pretty sure they also thought he’d get spanked relatively quickly, and backpeddle within like a year after he lost enough war criminals and starving peasants who participated in his “special military operation”.
And it’s still going.
We really would be foolish at this point to make any more “It’s unlikely that…” assertions at this point… It’s all out crazy town now.
They already have, with the enormous amount of weapons and ammunition they’ve been supplying to Russia. And they’re about to cross it again because North Korean soldiers are going to fight for Russia.
When’s the last time nk boots landed somewhere to fight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_North_Korea
The Ugandan Bush War, a few hundred personnel were involved apparently.
That page was deleted and reorganized here under “Korea” - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Korea
Huh. That literally just happened, because I was reading it before I posted the comment.
Someone saw your comment and went in to delete it. You know how it is throughout history: the good guys always wins (according to history books).
The new page has a clear section for north korea, and lists wars newer than the ugandan bush war for it.
To me it seems more like someone noticed the original page was severely behind and decided to therefore merge it into the korea article, since apparently noone was maintaining it otherwise.Makes total sense.
Says the page has been deleted.
? I was told right here on Lemmy that the NK soldiers are functionally useless, tactically inept, slowing down the Russian troops, have never seen anything with a transistor before, and are supplying shells with 80% misfire rates?
It could be true, I guess. It could be Western propaganda too. It doesn’t take much to reason a country as underdeveloped and isolated as NK lacks an effective military.
However, maybe they don’t need to be particularly good to further Russia’s interests. NK army may be good enough as cannon fodder or purely for defence purposes, as border guards or patrols.
Russia and Ukraine are two countries that have thrown everything they had at each other: from good soldiers, to inmates, to good people who’d probably never held a weapon before.
At this point I imagine that having troops who are alive and actual trained soldiers, not emotionally and physically drained (if not outright mutilated) by years of fighting is a big advantage
If I was taken from my home and suddenly sent to fight for my country, no matter how full of patriotic love I might be, one North Korean child with a knife would be enough to take me out.
? I was told right here on Lemmy that the NK soldiers are functionally useless, tactically inept, slowing down the Russian troops, have never seen anything with a transistor before, and are supplying shells with 80% misfire rates?
What part of “Let us stop the North Korean troops before they see the battlefield” contradicts that?
Or are you just looking to simp for fascists, as usual?
If they were so inept as it’s said, Ukraine wouldn’t perceive them as this big of a ‘Help us ASAP stop them from reaching’ threat.
And since when is recognising the military power of an army simping for fascism?
If they were so inept as it’s said, Ukraine wouldn’t perceive them as this big of a ‘Help us ASAP stop them from reaching’ threat.
10,000 warm bodies is 10,000 warm bodies. Or have you forgotten how Storm-Z units went?
And since when is recognising the military power of an army simping for fascism?
When it’s oriented around dismissal of the flaws of a military because it’s one of the commenter’s favorite fascist regimes? MLs are pretty predictable.
You were told this?
Functionally useless just like the average Russian soldier, lacking equipment, food, training and likely suffering of medical complications. The thing is, in meat wave assaults it doesn’t matter. In fact their cheapness is a quality of its own.
It was supposed to be South Korean fake news to manufacture consent for invasion of NK
Juche too stronk. 💪
I don’t get it. Are Ukrainiens still fighting? Why? What is Russia going to do? Give them money like they gave it to Chechens after the war? Just stop this stupid dying and surrender already. Save some of my money.
And if the Russians went for your country too would you shout “surrender” then too? Do you have the slightest idea how much speech and media is controlled in Russia? Did the “joke” of Putin’s political opponents accidentally falling off windows not translate in your head that that’s not the type of govt to allow to rule over others?
I totally would surrender. Definitely wouldn’t fight. Russians are not Israeli or Americans. They actually include people into their country instead of genociding/exploiting them for one resource or another.
Lol yeah. Just look at the results. Everybody still speaks their languages even small ethnicities inside Russia free to teach their languages in school. Now contrast that to native Americans and their languages.
So the difference is not whether they’re trying to be imperialists, but in their relative ability to do so. I’m sure there’s some fascinating and useful graduate level historical analysis to be done in understanding why Russification was relatively unsuccessful, but that doesn’t change the fact that Russia has time and again attempted to impose Russian culture, Russian language, and Russian law on parts of the Russian empire that were very happily doing their own thing.
It did that and it did the opposite. Meaning it was promoting local cultures many times in it’s recent history. Including right now. No other major country in the world is doing that. That all to say that Russia is not as imperialistic as it’s perceived. Rather the opposite. Especially as compared to … Well anything else
Ok Volodymyr Zeleneskyy, have you tried not being a neo-nazi and supporting terrorist states like Israel?
Please stop begging money from us. Your neo-nazi country doesn‘t belong to the EU or the NATO.
It’s not the fault of other Ukrainians that Zelenskyi happens to be a zionist. They still deserve to get help against Russia.
Zeleneskyy voiced support to Israel right after 7 October and has been completely silent about the whole thing since.
Sounds a lot like how a lot of Jewish people (and not only Jewish people) reacted to it and subsequent events afterwards - they first saw Israel as a victim and supported it but over time changed their minds seeing what Israel was doing using that attack as an excuse and possibly as additional information about Oct 7 that was not straight out of the Israeli Authprities emerged.
It certainly doesn’t sound at all like a Zionist (for example Biden or most political leaders in Germany) have reacted: those have very vocally continued their “unwavering support” for Israel.
If Zeleneskyy morally supported the actions of Israel even once it became clear they had gone from self-defense to committing a Genocide, he would have kept voicing unwavering support for Israel, yet he has stopped talking about it altogether, and since Ukraine requires the support of the US and Germany, both countries were all main parties support the Israeli Neue Nazis and their Neue Holocaust, saying nothing at all is the smart balance he found between Morally being against the actions of Israel and doing what is best for Ukraine.
What a comment. A neo-nazi supporting Israel. Be serious man
This man is more serious than you think. Israel is a place, “somewhere else” to put all the Jews, so that they’re “not here”. That sounds pretty great to a nazi, actually.
Woah, i didn’t know that. I just lost all respect i had for that guy.
That is some serious cognitive dissonance on Zelenskyy’s part. So let me get this straight, he thinks it’s fine that Israeli murder and steal from innocent civilians and just annex land from another country because they think it should be Israel but disagrees when Russians do the same, is that right ? I would think a former humorist would have a firmer grasp of irony. Zelenskyy is a jackass.
Gotta separate the man from the post though. This is more Ukraine than Zelenskyy.
Woah, i didn’t know that. I just lost all respect i had for that guy.
@lemmy.ml
Doubt.
