Downvotes can be a useful tool to shape a community, but one of the main issues brought up in the post I made is when several people start downvoting communities they don’t even participate in. Which I want to emphasize is NOT the correct way for downvotes to be used.
First id like to start off with an apology to those who are upset about them being enabled. It may seem very clear to you that downvotes weren’t wanted, but as an admin I get complaints for basically every decision made on this site, so what the “right” choice is, is sometimes hard to determine.
I’ve been getting complaints about downvotes being disabled for awhile now, so it wasn’t clear to me. Even now, the opinion is still very split. Which is why I enabled them quietly to see if it would cause any issues. It did, so I made the initial post to see if people think the issues created by downvotes outweigh the benefits, and what peoples’ other opinions about them are.
This is my opinion based on what I’ve read and the results of the poll:
I think at a later time when lemmynsfw is larger, downvotes may be viable, especially if lemmy implements a custom home feed so that not everyone sees the same posts. This would help mitigate the issue of people not in communities downvoting posts. But as it stands I think the best option is disabling them again. Frequent posters, which are kind of needed for this site to survive, don’t seem to like them, and the poll is split almost 50/50. I have to try to balance enjoyability of posting and enjoyability of consuming content on the site, and it just seems like downvotes really hurts posters and only marginally helps consumers.
So with all that said, downvotes have been disabled again. Sorry for all the confusion and back and forth.
Not that I have a solution but engoraging people to use “blocks” and “filters” is the way to go I think.
I’d like to create a homepage but Lemmy moves too slowly for that, so I do find myself on “all” a lot. So blocking users/communities/instances and filtering keywords are how I craft a positive experience here.
When EH was around I’d waste endless time trolling/downvoting them, which I now realise was time wasted. It didn’t help me; made Lemmy more toxic; and gave bad actors the legitimacy and attention they want.
I think my comment in the poll was fairly comprehensive, so I’ll leave it at that. Except to add good job LemmyNSFW admins you constantly handle controversy well. From instance bans, instance drama or this current downvote issue, no notes.
You are doing (well not gods work) but still great work!
I Agree, it is basically impossible to make everyone happy.Personally I would like to have a possibility to display my discontent with something, in a more clear, immediate and concize way than a comment. Yet it is clear that Lemmy does not have the tools necessary to keep it being fun while people aren’t playing along.
Just to say something in opposition to criticism expressed in other comments… No matter what you choose there will be upset people in comments, and as an admin you can make decisions you see fit here as you are the one doing most of the work. There will always be people upset with the decision, but so far I believe you are doing great job!
I was personally on the fence anyway, but I really appreciate your work and explanation for decisions. You don’t have to do that but it means a lot!
I think removing down votes was the correct decision. We need to let all community grow and curate your own feed. Sometimes I like to see what else is out there even if it isn’t what I normally like.
Why don’t you disable upvotes too, then? Or at least hide the vote count–it is meaningless when it’s one sided.
I disagree. One-sided upvotes clearly have meaning - it means more people like a thing or think it has merit. Downvotes also have meaning. Disabling downvotes just says if you don’t like something we don’t care, just move on. I don’t mind that at all.
That’s not a world I want to live in. Moving on. Good bye.
You’re not a train. You don’t need to announce your departure.
Great news TBH. I think Lemmy is better off without users who think douchevoting is that important. Enjoy reddit!
many sites have this problem seem to have this problem, like Youtube. They go around disabling negative feedback and then have trouble with garbage. And it also seems to me that a dislike being an option makes the like much more meaningful.
Thanks for involving the community in the decision.
It’s nice to see active admins on our instance.
This is the right decision. I did not want to add an opinion and leave the majority decide, but the issue is downvotes are not used correctly.
After I participated in the other thread, I thought of a couple more scenarios where downvoting is useful:
- “this post is low effort”
Downvoting is a useful feedback tool to say hey OP, I have given your post an amount of my time that your low effort post did not earn. Try harder next time.
- “we don’t need yet another community for this topic”
If a person creates a new community for a topic that already has one (or more), to get around the community blocks that users have already put up, that’s functionally very similar to ban evasion. I’m tired of blocking repeat communities. If I see a person make a new community for a topic that is practically identical to one that exists, a downvote is warranted.
I’m not telling you my opinion should overrule the other arguments here, but it’s better to have all sides present so it’s not just an echo chamber.
thanks for your input
I voted to enable downvotes due to an increase in bad faith comments and posts in some communities, and removing downvotes allows trolls and sealions to artificially appear neutral when in fact they are rightfully buried. It also discourages commenters when those bad-faith debates eat up comment sections.
That said, I completely understand the rationale above and it convinced me that I voted the wrong way. Makes total sense that most people misuse downvotes, and I agree with disabling for now.
Thanks for being open and honest with the community. I’ll admit I’m disappointed by the decision. But you did the right thing by communicating and letting the community help shape the decision.
I’ve been blocking communities for around 300+ so far. The communities that I’m not interested. I’ve been doing this since day 1 and still keep checking new communities every day. For either subscribe or block.
I just want for people here having fun without getting downvotes so much because they’re not interested in such content per se.
There is logic in Madness.
I want to thank you lemmyposter212 for this fair minded decision. I know that we’ll probably revisit this subject in a number of months and then maybe the decision will be different and I shall probably bow out gracefully at that point rather than mount a protest.
I also want to thank the other posters and commenters who showed up to support each other, particularly @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] and @[email protected] Edit: also @[email protected]
But for right now I have another problem which is how to go about restoring the posts I blanked out. What I intend to do is to go through and try to match the titles to their original picture and then I shall make a weekly digest post of the ones that have been restored so that the people who haven’t seen them before can enjoy them.
Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.
I’m glad you’re sticking around. You post good stuff.
Thanks for those kind words, you’ve been commenting on my posts for a while now and it’s those small acts of appreciation for what I do that make the difference.
I think we’re missing stuff like that.
I didn’t realize how much I care about this wank bank. I was genuinely annoyed when it looked like we were going to lose some of the regular posters. Not just because that’d lower the amount of content.
I’m an artisanal purveyor of smut.
Are you saying entire communities can be downvoted? I didn’t even realize that. But it seems entirely unnecessary because people can block communities they don’t like.
Not entirely communities, but people will see a post from a community on their feed that they don’t like and downvote it. They 100% should block the community if they don’t like it, but what we’re seeing us they would just downvote the post.
Maybe we need a Meh button that means, “I’m not interested in this type of material.” Or as a confirmation on a downvote.
We need an added algorithm based home feed that has a “not interested” option, hopefully one day
Isn’t voting a way to participate? Is there a way to semi-lock the community instead so random drifters don’t come in a vote bomb?
Unfortunately no
Thank you for dedicating your time and trouble to this platform lemmyposter212. I’m sure the shit and abuse you get every day makes it all worthwhile.
Perhaps in the future, consideration for a feature that allows the Mod of the community to opt in or out of allowing downvoting might be considered, specific to just that community. This would take the debate out of the Admins hands, give new posters a chance to get started without being bashed, and provide an outlet for those who just need to downvote something.
Cheers
