This seemed odd to me, so I went to investigate. A clarification was posted 2 hours ago. Stating very clearly that:
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loli/shota are BANNED and not okay in any way.
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IRL kids are BANNED OBVIOUSLY because no shit.
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characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage are ALLOWED because as an instance the votes decided that banning all of it was destructive, and differentiating between them can be impossible.
So, it seems like an anti-witch hunting measure, which has ironically caused a massive witch hunt for the instance as a whole. These guys don’t seem to in any way support pedophilia (thank God).
What an odd way to initially phrase it. Saying “underage-looking nsfw” is such an underhanded wording that it makes me feel like they were trying to stir up a shitstorm against their own userbase. The followup is way better “we’re allowing weebs, no loli, some of you might still think it looks underage but we’re leaving it at the mods’ discretion”. But the damage is already done.
Petite / young-looking but not obviously underage
That still might actually be illegal in some jurisdictions. The wording of the British law on it bans “pseudo photographs” of people who are underage, and the definition used would probably cover that.
I think Canada has a law against it?
Yep, and so does several other countries.
I wonder if their community vote will hold up in a court of law? I can’t help but think that yay@lemmynsfw is out of their depth here…
He also called them “pleasures” in the initial post. That’s a really weird way to phrase it 🤔
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As long as kbin domain blocking tools work, I can choose to block their content - and I will, because 1) it’s pretty fucking vile 2) it might be illegal. But I don’t need it to be defederated, I’m happier if I have the tools to deal with this (and other similar stuff).
I wish we could remove the The “Random Post” / “Random Thread” boxes from the front page. Those seem to display NSFW material quite often - I don’t really have any need for “random content” especially since I can’t control the source.
But I don’t need it to be defederated, I’m happier if I have the tools to deal with this (and other similar stuff).
I’m sorry but this is asinine. We’re not talking about blocking too many posts about Taylor Swift, we’re talking about new users of kbin getting fed illegal child porn in their feed.
Kbin should defederate immediately.
This is not about CSAM though. It’s about specific fetish (which isn’t illegal globally as far as I know)
ernest needs to worry about the legality of the server and his users holistically.
I need to worry about the content I’m browsing. Ernest can’t worry or know about local laws in every country. Hence, I need to be able to block domains that I deem unsuitable.If ernest decides he needs to defederate to keep his users safe, then that’s fine by me, it’s his call. But I want to be able to moderate my own content (tools exist, but seem a bit buggy https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/issues/118)
I think the larger point is that you can still block domains you don’t want to see, but in this particular case defederation should happen. Both things can co-exist
Absolutely. If admins see the need to defederate, then go for it. I’m not going to object or leave because of it.
I just simply said, I personally don’t have need to defederate - if - the blocking tools work.Everyone else mileage may vary. Of course.
Hear, hear.
If it “might be illegal” than there actually might be a legal responsibility to defederate. Federation is not links to content, it’s mirrors of content, and anything you’re seeing while browsing kbin.social is being hosted here.
If it “might be illegal” than there actually might be a legal responsibility to defederate.
Absolutely, I never said otherwise (I hope?)
But that’s up to server admins - I don’t even know where the servers are hosted right now. I have no idea what applies to them. I’d like to believe they are acting in good faith and following their local legislation.What I meant with “might be illegal” is laws are different. Iceland and Iran have very different views on illegal content. And it might be that the content that is illegal in Iran, isn’t actually illegal in where ever the servers are hosted.
We all have to make sure we follow the laws of the country we live in.
So we need tools to handle those situations (like the situation in this thread)
- it might be illegal.
Sounds like an existential risk to the server to federate with them unless they tighten things up then. @ernest is beholden to both the laws of where his server is hosted and where he lives, which I believe are Germany and Poland. If he violates either, there goes the instance and/or him.
Certainly. The instance must abide by the law of the country it’s hosted in. And we users must abide by the laws of our respective countries.
I’ll let ernest and instance mods to worry about the legality of the instance, but I’d like to be able to to control the content that ends up in my browser - domain blocking is a hammer, going forward it would also be nice to get keyword blocking and other tools.
if the instance is beholden to german laws it might be better to move to a new one before this gets too large. otherwise it’ll suffer the same fate as traditional social media. no idea what the laws in poland are…
For some reason, people from reddit would rather ban EVERYONE from accessing content, rather than just hitting the very-easy-to-use block button, that will take care of all of their woes while not forcing their opinion on everyone else.
Loli is fucking gross, and the people who enjoy it are gross, but the block button is right there.
As long as kbin domain blocking tools work,
Instance blocking.
go to https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com and hit the block button if you don’t want posts from there in your feed
how the hell do i add a domain to this blocklist? i don’t want to see anything from any magazine on @ lemmynsfw dot com
Click on the domain (between brackets) and block it like you’ll block a magazine or a user.
You can also display a domain by copying it after your.instance/d/the_domain
edit: Warning : when you’ll click on the domain, it will display its content that may be NSFW
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Go to https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com and block it there
I think we should keep the decision on the users what they want to see or don’t want to, as long as its legal - similar to the piracy magazines or others.
Maybe block it by default, but allow users to opt-in / remove the block?
By the way:
You can see all threads from an instance by using the following URL on Kbin (not on Lemmy):
https://kbin.social/d/[instance-url]
^ the /d stands for domain.
e.g.: https://kbin.social/d/lemmy.ml
On the same page, you can block the whole instance.
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You can create a rule for that area in your ad blocker, I got rid of it completely.
HARD DISAGREE
Another community having the possibility of posting something you don’t approve of when nothing is actually illegal, nobody is actually getting hurt, and you could just have blocked that community (or even just offending users) for yourself in the first place is just a really dumb reason to force the whole instance to defederate from it.
It’s up to Ernest what happens, but I’m not on board for unnecessary censorship of cartoons, of all things. I honestly worry for you.
It is actually illegal in some jurisdictions, including mine.
It probably is illegal in some jurisdictions, that’s the issue.
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but I’m not on board for unnecessary censorship of cartoons
Said by every loli loving paedo.
I agree
As much as I enjoy the idea of an adult community, it has to be adult in both idea and implementation. Allowing depictions of underage people (especially in the age of AI) is plain stupid. I’m blocking lemmynsfw and suggest you all do the same.
go to https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com and hit the block button if you don’t want posts from there in your feed
The kbin enhancement script is also a great little tool to completely hide anything originating from NSFW domains that’s listed in the script.
@LollerCorleone thanks for that.
This is highly misleading and makes more sense when reading the original question thread.
https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/42695/READ-THIS-clarification-on-the-decision-and-poll-resultsThis affects fictional content where it is hard to determine the age of the character. No obvious underage stuff.
I think it’s necessary to monitor the situation and how they will handle moderation, but for now, I would prefer to do it from a distance from kbin. There is currently a significant issue with moderation, and disturbing content can remain up for too long. I’m working on improving this issue as well.
it’d be nice if you could write up a short thing on your philosophy for federating/defederating/content. many of us would like to simply have full federation and curate content ourselves, though it’s understandable that moderation needs to happen in some cases.
many of us would like to simply have full federation and curate content ourselves, though it’s understandable that moderation needs to happen in some cases.
Agreed. I think the emphasis needs to be on usage of NSFW tagging, and making sure users have the ability to block magazines that they think are borderline (or just bad at tagging their content) without having to click into that magazine.
That said, I would not be opposed to a middle ground where entire instances can be flagged as NSFW so that their content is automatically tagged. 1) Instances should be able to voluntarily tag themselves like this so that all posts originating from that instance are automatically tagged, and 2) admins of other instances should be given the option to flag other instances as NSFW to their local instance as an alternative to defederating. There is still some room for overreaction with #2, but it’s still putting control in the hands of that instance’s users whether they want to interact with that content or not.
This seems like a much more manageable approach. Obviously illegal content needs to be banned, but as long as NSFW content is legal and properly tagged, it can be an entirely opt-in experience (with some default/UI tweaks if it’s not the case already). I understand that people don’t want to see otaku lolichans or whatever, but even on Reddit enabling NSFW could get you a prolapsed anus, a brutal beheading, or any flavor of extreme fetish that has just as much potential to ruin your day. Even as someone who doesn’t seek any of this out, I’d still like to have aggregation of the largest NSFW feeds (which is majority pretty tame by comparison). If there’s a possibility for this stuff to sneak into /m/random or wherever, that can be addressed without defederation.
One of the reasons I joined Kbin is because it isn’t Beehaw, and doesn’t have the mission of curating a family-friendly safe space engineered not to offend anyone, ever. Moderation is necessary to mitigate habitual bad actors and comply with legal standards, but self-imposing a mandate beyond that just creates an endless stream of drama in service of a goal that’s impossible to attain. As the fediverse grows, this kind of controversy will become more and more common as with all social media, and it’s not tenable to try be responsive to the whims of every person or group who wants to impose an agenda or finds their sensibilities violated by this or that community. It fuels conflict, promotes censorship, and incentivizes grandstanding by people who are more concerned with policing the actions of others than contributing constructively to discussions.
Who wants to read a post feed that’s dominated by people arguing about this stuff and calling each other names over the new hot-button moderation issue of the day? How is that any better than Twitter?
The more pressing matter is that simply viewing such images is a crime in some jurisdictions, let alone distributing them. It exposes both the site itself, any federating instances and users of any federating instances to potential legal issues.
More philosophically, I don’t care if people that want to look at underage anime girls fuck off. They can go and be creepy weebs somewhere else.
I’m personally most worried about the toxicity of the western loli community. I had to deal with them as a moderator of anime communities, most famously an anime shitposting page on Facebook, and they’re the worst.
Yeah pedos tend to be shit people, whoda thunk it?
It’s not just that.
They think if you’re not a big fan of loli, then you don’t belong to the anime community, and you must be harassed out from there. If I had a dollar every time people were harassed on Twitter for saying they like some generic shounen instead of some borderline loli porn…
They do that, though, because they know reasonably well adjusted people will not tolerate their kinks in general fandom, so they have to make sure those people do not enter the fandom.
So they believe you need to be into their kink to be an anime fan not from an ideological position, but from one of knowing its the only way they get to be in the fandom.
Which is super fucked up.
See stuff like this is why I don’t really like anime, the community ruins it and a lot of the things that seem to be popular for anime also tend to have those weird pedophilic ideals. I am sure there are some anime I like, but I continue to not touch the medium with a 10 foot pole because of the user base.
The important differentiator is that anime is a medium. There is high-brow stuff and low-brow stuff. Both fans and non-fans make the mistake of treating it as this all-inclusive hodgepodge, particularly because there happens to be a large market for that low-brow stuff.
Removing sexuality from the picture for a moment, both the anime and light novel scenes (where a lot of anime originates) are much more derivative and prone to copycatting than their western counterparts. Competition is fierce and sex sells. I don’t like it when stuff I find creepy finds its way into something I like, and sometimes I have to move on if the author keeps coming back to it. That’s just how it goes.
Find what anime you like, stick to the communities for the anime that you do like. Avoid mainstream or generic “anime” communities, because the disproportionate amount of low-brow content is going to drag discussions down in that direction. Either you accept it, ignore it, or stay away from it. And if some jackass tries to tell you that you’re not a “real” anime fan if you don’t accept their fetishes, nope right the fuck out of that conversation. Anyone trying to shove their fetish down your throat is just looking for self-validation in a public place and engaging with that is utterly pointless.
We’re talking about illegal child porn here. Kbin should defederate immediately.
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I haven’t seen any user profile options to block nsfw tagged content, or to block a specific instance.
That would help, and doesn’t need defederation.
edit: found “Hide adult content” in settings.
Under “Settings”, “Hide adult content” is enabled by default.
In communities you have a little block icon next to the “Subscribe” button in the sidebar to block individual communities. The same rule goes for whole instances. In this case: https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com - I think it’s just a little hard to navigate directly to those URLs from within the kbin interface at the moment.The ability to blur NSFW really was a quality of life thing I didn’t even realize I’d been taking for granted. I wouldn’t call it an imminent NEED for myself, knowing how impossibly busy Ernest is, but. Dude.
I find myself between a rock and a suspiciously sticky hard place, because some of my interests should definitely be considered NSFW but aren’t porn. So do I give up my hobbies or subject myself to just SO many dicks.
To my own humor, I’m really remembering how much porn is on the internet right now.
To my own humor, I’m really remembering how much porn is on the internet right now.
Yup. That’s why my own take on this treads a fine line. IMO we need porn on our side to leave Reddit in the past, but that doesn’t mean we all need someone’s junk in our face either. :D
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Anyone against defederating is seriously messed up. You included.
I don’t know why you feel the need to insult me over trivial bullshit like this, but I can throw that particular one right back at you, just for that.
Obviously because you feel the need to call CP “trivial bullshit”.
Geez, you need to take some fresh air, he didn’t said that. Dont make this place Reddit 2.0 and take the time to think before you type.
It’s pretty black and white when it comes to this stuff. There’s no grey zone. Block the hell out of it, support blocking it, or you condone it.
Ah yes, the classic “you’re either with me or against me”
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Quite the case of projection there.
You are almost there buddy.
You know who’s the greatest homophobes that see weird gay or trans agendas everywhere? Closeted gay people.
I’m pretty sure that’s not actually true.
I just add the exact quote.
characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage are ALLOWED
Supports your point.
Which is still potentially illegal in some countries.
Porn in general is illegal in some countries. User discretion is advised.
I believe one solution to this, is to add another option beside federation or defederation.
Since, if my understanding is correct, federated instances don’t actually share content until someone subscribes to the community in the bad instance. The bad content is then shown to every other user in the first instance, needing every other user to block the bad content if they don’t like it or forcing defederation.
But on the other hand, that means that someone does actually want to view the content since someone did subscribed to it. So my proposed solution is to limit the content of the bad instance to be shown only to the subscribed users and nobody else. Maybe either by the user when subscribing, to select a limited subscription shown only to themselves, or by the moderator.Even of its only being shown to the subscriber, it’s still being hosted by the local instance. This puts the local site at legal risk.
To apply that more broadly, wouldn’t that mean more like, ALL nsfw would only appear in its own mag/only on the feeds of people subbed to it? That may be an interesting solution. People set out deliberately to look for it and even keep pron-specific alts, so it’s not like every other subject, that would suffer massively if kept sequestered. Then all one would have to tackle is persuading people to tag all of it.
and now the federation drama begins…
There is nothing dramatic about it. Defederating from problematic instances is nothing new for federated platforms.
Access to content should not be difficulted by puritan views. If people enjoy gore and create an instance about gore in movies showing very explicit (yet fictional) images of dismemberments and stuff in movies it should be banned too because is morally questionable?
If you can’t distinguish between fiction and reality it should be a you problem not the whole instance you are inhabiting problem
What do you think about this? (sorry the article is in Spanish, but there is no English article)
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni%C3%B1os_en_la_playa
It’s a painting exposed in an important museum
Access to content should be based on LEGALITY though. And it turns out this is ILLEGAL in a lot of places.
Michelangelo’s David is pornography in a lot of places. let’s forbid it everywhere
Why not just create a separate account for nsfw stuff? Why would you need it on the front page of your main account while scrolling anyways?
Let’s flip that argument: should we all abide by American standards? After all, nudity is ok in a lot of places in the world, why should we blur chests?
Tons of countries ban underage looking things, even digital art of it. Countries with bans include Canada, Australia, the UK, France, South Korea, Ireland, Norway, etc.
And, uh, Poland. You know. That place where ernest is from, and whose laws he’s beholden to.
We’re not talking about pornography laws that were enacted with no basis in harm reduction, we’re talking about child porn laws that were enacted to not encourage and normalize pedophiles and pedophilia.
Some laws are justifiable, some are arguable, and some are completely unjustifiable, throwing out an unjustifiable one in contrast to a firmly justifiable one is not debating, it’s childish nonsense.
We’re not talking about pornography laws that were enacted with no basis in harm reduction, we’re talking about child porn laws that were enacted to not encourage and normalize pedophiles and pedophilia.
Wtf? There’s evidence that letting pedophiles look at fictional drawings prevents them from acting on their impulses. EXACTLY harm reduction. What else would it be? You seriously think someone would be normal, then come across an anime loli, and think “oh shit, I should go abuse a kid!”. Wtf kind of nonsense is that? It’s the exact argument about violent video games
throwing out an unjustifiable one in contrast to a firmly justifiable one is not debating
Then justify it. Where’s the evidence that looking at loli pron leads to abusing children.
lgbt people are illegal in the middle east. should we ban lgbt people too?
Underage fictional content is banned in first world countries like South Korea, Ireland, Norway, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and France. Do you really want to lump the very real discrimination that LGBTQ people face with someone’s desire to get off to a 5 year old, sorry - 5000 year old school girl?
loli/shota don’t refer to underage fictional content.
I think this loli/shota hate can indeed lead to real oppression yes. I’m an adult, I look like a minor. Do you believe it should be illegal for me to send nsfw photos of myself to people? To have a relationship with another adult? simply because I look underage? This is the sort of thing we’re talking about here. Should I be banned from posting pics of myself simply because of the way I look?
lemmynsfw already explicitly stated they ban underage content. so to bring up underage content is dishonest.
I think this confusion comes from the phrasing of the original post, which was ambiguous about allowing underage content. Also, there’s a difference between being an adult and looking teenage, and looking like a literal child (which I doubt you do). But regardless of appearances, you’re a real person whose age we can verify. And yes, I’m a proponent of verifying people’s ages.
An ambiguous image of a person that looks 10, but whose creator insists she’s a 5000 year old dragon, doesn’t hold up in many courts. Many international courts say “nice try but that’s a 10 year old”. And I don’t disagree with them. Overall I just don’t get it? Why the need to have that stuff on the major NSFW instance? By all means, put it on a side instance that can get blocked and banned, and if you really need to see it, either join a Lemmy that’s super lax or roll your own.
This has nothing to do with banning and everything to do with filtering. Especially at this early moment when everyone lacks the ideal tools and functions to curate your iwn content across the Fediverse.
For now, you can always access both kbin and lemmy from a third instance thats federated with both, regardless of their direct federation to each other. When more tools exist for users to curate their own experience we can always federated up again.
Underage fictional content is banned in first world countries like South Korea, Ireland, Norway, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and France.
Ireland is a third world country, literally
The term “Third World” arose during the Cold War and it was used to define countries that remained non-aligned with either NATO or the Warsaw Pact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World
And Ireland remained neutral, like other countries Finland, Sweden, Switzerland or Austria, making those countries third world countries, literally
Saying or implying third world countries are underdeveloped/poor countries is just a really bad stereotipe and shows your inculture
Yeah ok, I really love that Reddit’s crappy pedantry about stuff that doesn’t matter is bleeding into the new world. First world, to most of us not using 50 year old definitions, means countries universally accepted to have decent human rights. The topic reeled into the Middle East’s laws surrounding LGBTQ people, which is a shit argument when talking about banning underage looking content which happens even in countries with great LGBTQ rights. Let’s not pretend that the world is this fantastic equal place where the human experience is just dandy across the board.
Also I’m from a third world country! Yugoslavia was the founder of the neutral Non-Aligned movement. That makes it, by most definitions, third world.
Comparing the defederation of an instance for allowing underage sexual content with the very real discrimination faced by LGBTQ+ people is one of the shittiest takes I have seen.
lemmynsfw explicitly stated they don’t allow underage content.
Yeah even fictional suggestive content is illegal in Canada. And I’m glad!
You can go make an account on porn instances or whatever for yourself. I have nsfw content blocked, and I blocked the community in question already. I’m not here for porn. There’s a million other places you can get your porn.
I’m not here for porn. There’s a million other places you can get your porn.
Me neither (people can see the magazines I follow, that’s public), that’s why I don’t have a problem with NSFW instances doing whatever they want. What I’m not going to do is impose my personal views onto others
With the rapid growth of Lemmy and the fediverse in general, a lot of nsfw stuff isn’t getting properly tagged. I don’t want to see it. I wish I didn’t have to. Saw a giant wang yesterday against my will. So I’d rather it just wasn’t allowed, since there are literally a million other ways to get your porn fix. But there aren’t a million other active forums for everything else here.
Saw a giant wang yesterday against my will.
Neal Stephenson did predict it:
You can look like a gorilla or a dragon or a giant talking penis in the Metaverse. Spend five minutes walking down the Street and you will see all of these.
-- Snow Crash
I have no idea about the context of that painting, but I don’t think the children are being sexualised in it. The under-age content that will be posted on lemmynsfw (fictional or not) will definitely be sexual in nature, and that is deeply problematic and might also be illegal in several countries. They can do whatever they want with their instance, but the users of kbin.social shouldn’t have to be looking at such content.
but the users of kbin.social shouldn’t have to be looking at such content.
Idk, as kbin.social user I was not looking to such content until you mentioned it. And since I don’t follow that instance I will not be looking to such content in the future
You do “follow” that instance because you are part of kbin.social which is federated with it. You could go in and block each of the magazines/threads from there or whatever the term is on Lemmy, and block the users you don’t want to see content from, but kbin.social is federated with lemmynsfw, so that content has the ability to show up in your “all” or “random” feeds unless we defederate -which is the question being asked. So you very well could really l easily have that content in your feed in the best future
You do “follow” that instance because you are part of kbin.social which is federated with it
No, I don’t. My starting page is https://kbin.social/sub so I only see magazines I’m subscribed to. And most often than not I have federation turned off, as I find duplicated content annoying and useless
Rather than blacklisting magazines I whitelist magazines and I only see the content I want.
Also, I removed the “random posts” section with uBlock origin (uBlock origin does more than just blocking ads, you can select and remove parts of a website entirely, by doing that the website work load is reduced and also loads faster), so this situation you describe:
So you very well could really l easily have that content in your feed in the best future
won’t happen
The only feature I really miss is having content ordered by “newest” by default (something I had on reddit using the third party app “Joey”)
lemmynsfw said they don’t allow underage content though. so that’s unrelated to their ruling. their ruling applies to adult content, not underage.
The linked post is saying they will allow non-irl underage-looking content.
That is illegal in Canada.
163.1 (1) In this section, child pornography means
(a) a photographic, film, video or other visual representation, whether or not it was made by electronic or mechanical means,
(i) that shows a person who is or is depicted as being under the age of eighteen years and is engaged in or is depicted as engaged in explicit sexual activity
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-163.1.html
that applies to people, not drawings.
I’d encourage you to read what I just posted because drawings would fall under “other visual representations”
In the age of AI, it’s basically the same thing anyway. People can generate that shit now and it will look real. It’s not okay and it is illegal. It literally uses the word “depicted” which can refer to non-real stuff.
So… is all My Hero Academia porn illegal in Canada?
They started at 14, and are 16 now as far as I understand.I never heard anyone call that stuff CP, although it technically would have to be, as long as the artist doesn’t somehow clarify “this is art from a future version, where they’re all 18, they just look the same because awesome genes” or whatever.
I’m not familiar with that so I cannot say. I’ve included a link to the law as it is written. If it fits the description, someone intended to be under the age of 18 displayed in a sexual fashion, then yes.
The lengths people will go to to defend paedos is striking.
The venn diagram of pedo supporters and alt right is almost a circle.
Paedos should be castrated and thrown into the deepest hole and never leave, as they hurt children. Nobody is defending those people, but drawings are not children, nobody is harmed. That’s an important difference
People who seek out sexual representation of people that look underage are paedos, and those that claim “iT’s JuSt DrAwInGs” are protecting paedos.
This is your argument:
We should ban violent videogames . Everybody know people who play violent videogames are violent. Peolpe claiming “It’S jUsT a GaMe” are protecting violent people
P.S. I hope you don’t like shaved vaginas, btw, people who like shaved genitals are just ill people people who want to see kid-like genitals without any hair i.e. paedos
lmfao, you’re reaching so hard to defend paedos.
Go find your shitty twisted instance and sit there with the rest of the 4chan incels if you want, but you don’t need that instance federated with anyone else.
Heh. If we’re giving examples from art, probably the most-famous romance work in the English language is Romeo and Juliet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_and_Juliet
Juliet Capulet, the 13-year-old daughter of Capulet, is the play’s female protagonist.
That being said, I don’t think that a work being part of cultural canon entails that someone needs to personally consider it acceptable to themselves.
They also don’t have sex in that play. It’s a romance, not erotica
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The movie was so disturbing. The actors were children…
If you want legally questionable material, gore, or other shit, you’re free to spin up your own instance. Your access to it is not being fettered.
You’re just not entitled to access it using someone else’s website.
You know what you can do if you want to see that content? Subscribe to that instance or an instance that is federated with it. Easy
Easy
Not easy when instances start defederating stuff, forcing users to create new accounts on other instances
this isn’t problematic. there’s literally nothing illegal about lemmynsfw. since there is nothing illegal on there, it’s not problematic. that simple.
So, in a month we can expect a mass repression in kbin?
Really, it’s just good housekeeping.
Calling it drama is like saying “both sides”, it’s dumb AF.
There is a good case here to defederate every instance by default and only federate based on a white list.
There are criminals in the fediverse obviously and we should split from them immediately. Don’t forget that their content is copied to the servers of Ernest automatically.
Again, Beehaw defederated 380 instances and it’s not just because they disagree with their political stance, but mostly because of this kind of horrible content. Which will come from another new instance, and another, etc, etc. Which means that we need to update Ernest regularly to protect his servers. Or make the default setting as defederated.
Reading the comments… that’s not going to fly - literally no response in the comments is PRO this change.
But the instance owner has been acting pretty defensive about it, and seem to be going ahead with it.
Oh well if it goes ahead, especially against the very vocal suggestions that it should not from his own users. Then yes - I agree.
Let’s flip that argument: should we all abide by American standards?
No. Kbin is Polish, I think
Yes, the developer of /kbin is Polish.
Lolicon is illegal in Poland.if this is indeed the case, then this is really the only valid reason to defederate. if it’s literally illegal to federate, then it’s understandable what must be done. otherwise? no.
So in your mind the only valid reason to not serve child porn to your users is if you happen to be subject to the laws of Poland at the time?
Comments like this alone make me want to leave kbin.
There’s like 3 different users with anime pfp going to bat for loli all over the different instances and it’s definitely annoying. Like nobody gives a shit that technically this or that. Most people don’t want to see it.
For real, I’ve been trying to learn Japanese on and off, love the country, like lot of its media (albeit not much anime) and I’m absolutely desperate to avoid being associated with those guys.
Most people who aren’t nonces recognise fairly instinctively that a sexual image of someone who appears to be a ten year old girl is a pretty noncey thing to both produce and look at, and that finding some level of sexual attraction to someone who looks like a ten year old is pretty noncey. But you know, weebs gonna weeb.
For sure m8. I imagine people like that probably don’t get outside much so they don’t realize how much distress their ‘preferences’ actually causes to your average person.
I think it’s just that they spend all their time around other people who get off to that shit so they think it’s normal and fine.
if you don’t want to see it then just block it and move on. no problem.
If something is truly harmful it should be illegal. and if it is illegal, it’s grounds to defederate. if something is not illegal and there’s no need to make it illegal, then it’s fine.
actual child porn is something that causes harm, and thus should be illegal, and thus grounds for defederation.
loli/shota are not child porn. these are words that apply to adults. if loli/shota content OF ADULTS is indeed banned in poland, and kbin is in poland and subject to those laws, then it’s understandable that defederation has to occur.
Something tells me though, that adult loli/shota content isn’t actually banned in poland. anti loli idiots have been trying to declare it’s cp for years now and they’re just wrong.
[Polish penal code] Article 202 § 4b penalizes the production, dissemination, presentation, storage or possession of pornographic content depicting the created or processed image of a minor under the age of 18 participating in a sexual activity.
It takes like 2 minutes to look up.
loli/shota do not refer to an age, and lemmynsfw has stated that they ban nsfw images of minors and those who appear underage.
I can’t say I know too much about it, but I was pretty sure shota was almost entirely dependent on one of the characters being in grade school or early middle school?
“Loli” can be ambiguous, but I think here it’s pretty clear it’s meant to refer to drawn characters with bodies typical of around the age of 10-13.
I don’t quite know where doujinshi of characters like Betty from Re:Zero would fall, since she’s established as quite old but also childlike in appearance and behavior.
So if I draw some random character having sex, and then label them as “15 years old”, it’s now illegal? What kind of insane nonsense is that?
idiots will look at obviously mature anime characters and then cry at the canonical age being 15. but in the same breath cry about characters who are canonically adults merely for looking young/youthful. it’s hypocritical and idiotic.
I don’t know any case law, but probably!
I think it’s usually not too much of a legal concern, but it’s also not uncommon for people to draw lewds of characters from shows that are canonically underage (see: Prisma Ilya, who is 10/11 in that spinoff series, although “18” in other Fate series). That would certainly be illegal.
But either way, it definitely creeps people out, and it’s usually best to avoid doing things that make people want to stay away from you like that.
We should defederate from https://kbin.social/m/[email protected] instread of celebrate it, piracy is illegal like, worldwide
So what illegal things should be supported in kbin and which don’t?
technically dbzer0 doesn’t break any laws, and neither does lemmynsfw lmfao. people crying “it’s illegal” are just wrong. and if you want to go the illegal route, then look at how dprk bans self-hosting, or how the middle east bans lgbt and atheist topics. should we defederate with any instance that has an lgbt or atheist group, due to those being illegal in the middle east?
Ernest is Polish, and the server is in Germany. Which, for what it’s worth, is another reason why any Nazi shit also needs to to be blocked at the server level, too.
is another reason why any Nazi shit also needs to to be blocked at the server level, too.
It’s ok to block Nazi shit. Nazi ideology hurts real life people after all
beehaw’s ideology hurts real life people as well. should we defederate from them?
Yes. that’s the main reason I did not opened an account on lemmy or their instances (I’ve been searching a reddit alternative way before the API debacle happened)
lol why even bother with a federated service if you wanna defederate from everyone and have particular strict moderation in a singular style? just go join a regular site at that point?
alternatively you can start your own instance if you feel the existing ones aren’t federating in the way you’d like.
just go join a regular site at that point?
I did not found a regular reddit alternative. (Well, yes, I found one, tildes, but the owner requires people beg for invitations via mail, and I’m not going to do that)
I have taken the executive decision to turn federation off for a similar reason.
I was recommended a vile post on the sidebar from m/random which I definitely never want to see the likes of again. I did report it but since it was from another server I don’t really know where that goes.
I’m not going to turn federation back on again until I find a way to prevent it. Perhaps we should start a blacklist?
You can blacklist sites you don’t want to see.
Go tohttps://kbin.social/d/<the instance domain name you want to block>
For example: https://kbin.social/d/sh.itjust.worksOn the right side-bar, in the Domain box, you’ll see this you’ll see this
Click on the block symbol and you will not see content from that domain again.(hopefully)
Thank you and I appreciate the write up but I had actually already blacklisted a few domains.
Unfortunately that did not prevent the post from appearing in m/random because it was from a domain that I had not already blacklisted.
I simply do not want to have to act reactively once I have already been exposed to the vile content. At that point my experience is already ruined whether I block it afterwards or not.
Another reasonable approach might be to block m/random which I might consider doing if I am tempted to enable federation again, but for now I’m just going to play it safe and stick to kbin.social.
Ah that’s good to know, thanks very much for the info.
Question from a new user, to block it do i actually have to click into it or is there another way? I’ve read all the comments and don’t need clarification on anything else (except maybe if Ernest decided to defederate already); I definitely want to block it.
Thanks in advance!
Go to https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com and block it there
Thanks! Wasn’t sure if there was another way. Appreciate you!
Close to? There are jurisdictions where that is straight-up illegal. In those jurisdictions, anyone who so much as loads a page containing such a post is guilty of a sex offense, because the uncensored image is in their browser cache and therefore in their possession.
So yes, if they’re allowing that content, then they need to be defederated with extreme prejudice.
From the looks of it, kbin’s gonna need some stronger moderation to get rid of the fucking paedophiles.
I just subbed to the hentai sub over there, damn. How unfortunate :/
