Yeah, I have never done that, and never will. It’s the dumbest, least inviting, most destructive way to DM. You want to have players having no fun? Do that kind of shit.
It goes for pretty much anything, not just the charisma stuff, but the charisma stuff is easier to see because it’s role play, it’s the talking part, and for some reason is more likely to be held to that bullshit standard.
It would be like expecting a player running a fighter to know martial arts and describe every move with real world accuracy. Or expecting someone playing a thief to be able to describe picking a lock in detail.
The whole reason we have stats and dice is because we aren’t fighters and thieves and bards. If we were, we’d not be playing a game most likely, or would be playing it out without character sheets. I don’t need a character sheet to nail a hip throw or arm bar, but you better fucking believe I need one to climb a wall without a ladder.
If anything, you encourage the player to cook up some good ideas ahead of time and apply them as needed. And you make sure to let them know that they can plagiarize Shakespeare if they want. Why can wizards have a card index full of spells, but the bard can’t have a notebook of quotes they picked up from their favorite writers?
There’s a lot of ways to help a player have a more dynamic, immersive, in character experience. But trying to make them be the class is just as dumb as expecting the half orc player to have big muscles and tusky teeth in their mouth. Yeah, if they want to, that’s great. But you can’t run a table like that and it be fun.
Tangent warning
Dumbest dude I’ve ever known, like the equivalent of maybe int 4 or 5. Played a wizard, and every fucking spell, he’d yell “alacababra” because that’s what he thought abracadabra was. But that crayon eating bastard was fun. We’d run into something you can’t fireball your way out of, and he’d look at his sheet, furrow his brow, then look at me, or my best friend and ask “what should I cast?”. And we’d fucking tell him. He’d shout, alacababra, and out comes polymorph or whatever. Because wizards are fucking cool.
I have my own home brew system and universe to play it in. Kind of a futuristic urban fantasy setting, though I hadn’t heard the term when I was cooking it up. There’s vampires, werewolves, aliens, all kinds of shit.
His first character is a werewolf because he loves howling. No bullshit, that was why he ranted wanted to play one, he likes howling. I tell him he can howl once a session, and not after 9 because I have neighbors. He sets alarm on his watch. Middle of whatever we’re doing, dude howls.
A few sessions in, he gets cursed with fleas. His character, not the player. Now, dumb guy, right? But he gets this big fucking grin on his face and asks what he has to roll to catch one and put it in a jar. I have him make a dex roll, low difficulty. He succeeds. He then turns to my best friend that’s running a nature magician and asks how big he can make the flea.
Me and my homie discuss, and I rule no bigger than a border collie, based on the way the spell works, though it was never even in my mind that anyone would grow a flea.
The dumb guy then asks me if a nature magician can make a familiar for someone else. And the answer was yes.
So, this dude is playing a werewolf with a giant flea familiar.
About a year later, new party, new characters. He’s struggling with something to pick. None of my made up aliens make him happy. None of the standard fantasy stuff does.
So dude gets distracted. He asks me if there’s were-insects. I’m thinking, my dude is wanting a wereflea. Obvious thought, right?
I tell him the truth, that I’ve been working on a few ideas. More spiders and mantises, predatory invertebrates. He gets that same damn smile on his face, and asks if he can play a fly.
Like, a dragonfly? No, he says. A fly. Nobody would be able to catch him.
So my dude gets a custom built race, the were-fly. Fast, great reflexes, has to fight with knives because flies aren’t exactly well armed naturally. Well legged, but not well armed. Spits vomit though. My dude buzzes every S and Z he says in character for the next year. Sometimes out of character too lol.
The point? Motherfucker didn’t know shit. Never graduated high school, couldn’t manage a GED, was literate and could write, but limited. Dude could barely operate a fryer in a fast food joint. But he didn’t need to know shit because his character knew shit, and could make a dice roll to see what the character knew, and be told about it, and he’d play any fucking scene out he could.
And if that isn’t how a table is supposed to be run, where you can have a player have fun despite those kind of limitations, you suck as a DM. Yeah, that’s snarky and a little self aggrandizing, but I’m passionate about this kind of thing. Not every player fits every group, but when someone shows up and puts in the effort to play cool shit, you don’t fuck them over by making them limit themselves to reality.
My dude, Keith? Moved out west, and we lost contact. But he’s still one of the best players I ever had. Awooooo motherfucker!
I don’t need your exact wording and delivery, I just need a general idea. You don’t have to act, just describe.
“I imply his hostility stems from insecurities relating to his inferior genitals, and go on to ask if that has anything to do with his wife’s well known infidelity or if he approves of her promiscuity, perhaps because it reminds him of his mother.”
Bruh you just described like minimum 12 charisma
Charisma will affect how well the idea is communicated, but isn’t necessary just to give fairly basic insults. A low charisma character can easily come up with the idea of saying someone has a little dick and that his wife and mother sleep around. He’s just a lot more likely to stumble over his words and sound unsure about it. He’ll deliver it in the classic style of a 12 year old playing call of duty rather than with the effortless wit of an insult comic.
I think they mean a real person, the player, would need a minimum of “12 charisma” to even think of saying something like that to the DM.
And the meme says “me with 8 real life charisma” y’know, so less than 12.
Goddamn
The answer as always is sexily, we’re all 5 and it works on everything.
This is why I really dislike it when DMs try to force a player to perform irl somehow. They are playing a character that they are not. Give them a break.
Me: I use Vicious Mockery!
DM: what do you say to hurt the guard?
Me: … you… suck… at guarding and you’re a bad guard… who isn’t good at guarding?
Generic mockery always works:
- “if they would paint a portrait of you they will need neither hammer nor nail, since the painting would hang itself”
- “The mud on thy face does make it better”
Please continue…
It is well that you wear a hat upon your head, or we might mistake it for your arse.
I see they put you on guard duty to keep the stench outdoors.
Your father is unknown, but your mother made free with a baboon before she had you.
You stand as testament that, with care, a uae can be found for even the most dim-witted.
It’s why no one wanted to play a charisma character with several dms here. And then they’d punish the group by making sure there were extra charisma based encounters. If the barbarian can say “I punch the weak wooden door with my fist” and that’s fine why do I have to have a paragraph ready more than “I sweet talk the guard into letting us into the room for a moment?” and usually take a penalty to the check because my irl words aren’t convincing enough?? Fucking hell, my sorc head 19 charisma. I have, at best, 10. I’m never going to convince you (them) that anything I say is charismatic enough.
