Seven Havens’ plot tease has already set The Legend of Korra defenders back a decade again.
Are they not pretty used to it by now?
LoK fans who actually participate in any of the modern fandom are so jaded. It’s like Star Wars, where the original gets put on a higher and higher pedestal (by the fandom) as the years drag by, and every tiny thing about the sequels fry under microscopes and nostalgia.
And /r/thelastairbender is so… I dunno the word, but I haven’t checked it in months. It’s like everyone has a short attention span and keeps asking the same things without a single search. No interest in deep lore or speculation, lots of misinformation parroted, and repetitive, almost reverent fawning over ATLA. It wasn’t like this during the LoK premiere.
Tumblr and other art feeds are still nice though. Meanwhile, I’m over here shamelessly writing out a Seven Havens fic on Ao3. At peace.
Everything changed when season 2 aired. And it was the worst season of avatar for sure, but 1 was good, and 3 and 4 were amazing. But by the time 3 started there was a hatedom. There were anti korra youtubers and everything. I’ve been in the fandom since korra started and a friend got me to binge atla to join him watching it. I remember being called a crack shipper on reddit in season 1 for my pro korrasami stance.
The worst part of the anti korra people is their lack of media literacy. Its fine if you prefer the tone of atla or prefer aang’s struggle of morality vs duty, but a lot of the critiques of Korra aren’t that. They’re calling her a Mary Sue despite her being in line with every avatar in specialness and power level. I remember critiques that she never really struggled which was patently untrue or that she was immature which was her growth arc.
Ultimately I trust bryke. Korra is one of my favorite characters. She felt like a reincarnation of aang struggling in his shadow. And it’s clear the creators of the show liked her too. I suspect the end we will see is what we keep being shown by this setting’s content: each avatar is an imperfect but ultimately good human who stepped up and is now in an impossible position but continues to do their best.
So yeah I’m excited and I want nothing to do with the fandom. I assume they’ll hate this avatar before long too.
Interesting.
My experience doesn’t go that far back. Other than a few random ATLA episodes as a kid, I first watched Avatar (IIRC) just about after Book 4 aired, and the order was LoK -> ATLA -> LoK again. The Reddit fandom seemed pretty positive back then, though.
And yeah, misconceptions about lore are always really annoying, especially when people are really certain/aggressive but don’t accept references.
I’m excited, but afraid Bryke will try to “appease” the fandom, which is impossible. I hope they don’t.
Yeah reddit was mixed at the time. It’s funny because by the time I quit reddit the fandom had divided in half. And I don’t want to imply that there weren’t anti korra fans during season 1, it’s just there wasn’t really anything for them to latch onto except their misreading of the scene where she regained her powers. And the hate for her character has always had currents of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. The homophobia was milder before season 4 concluded, but there was a full on “it came out of nowhere” backlash that culminated in both creators of the show waiting a day and posting why they did it. I talk about having been a crack shipper in part because those posts vindicated us, the creators of the show shipped it too.
And as for why I trust them, it’s two things: firstly that they fought the network to make korra a girl, then they asked and got permission to make her end up in a queer relationship and they never looked back on either. The comics kept them together and had Kya mention being a lesbian and talking about how the four nations each treat queer relationships, as well as mentioning that Kyoshi was bi. And it managed to not feel preachy, but more like the cool aunt just sitting her down and explaining how the world works for people who aren’t an army unto themselves.
Then there’s the books. I’m not going to say F.C. Yee is the best writer I’ve read, but for novels continuing a beloved setting he’s done excellent and they’ve created a theme of struggle and failure for avatars. The world we were introduced to in the boy in the iceberg is one destroyed by the absence of the avatar and so has developed a nostalgia. Whereas in Kyoshi’s books we see a world demonizing Kuruk because he refused to let others fight alongside him or to tell the world that he was fighting spirits and it was killing him lest he ruin their image of Yengchen. Meanwhile Kyoshi is both celebrated and demonized much like Korra as she struggles to right a complicated mess. Yengchen is similar. She’s doing espionage and trying to build infrastructure because of things that happened in her childhood and her predecessor focusing too heavily on rebuilding the fire nation. And as this happens she’s haunted by memories of the hate the world showed her past lives for failure or incomplete success.
In short only one piece of media in this setting treats complete success as something even possible for most avatars. We see why four past lives tell Aang that stopping Ozai is more important than the only air nomad not killing. We see time and time again that Korra was not the exception, Aang was, and we see that the successors of great avatars often struggle in their shadows.
And one thing I find extra frustrating about people not getting that Korra’s flaws and struggles are what make her interesting is that that’s what we liked about the gaang. Bryke don’t write characters that are wholly good or evil. We’re introduced to this in the storm where aang is shown to be a coward and zuko to have been noble. Iroh killed a lot of people before becoming good. And that remains a major theme of korra and the comics and the books. Zaheer is an amazing villain for that reason, and him and Kuvira both contributed to stopping the other…
Sorry about ranting, this remains my favorite fandom and I’m kinda fangirling about more coming
Sorry about ranting, this remains my favorite fandom and I’m kinda fangirling about more coming.
No I’m the same, I can’t stop thinking about the Avatar world, especially since the Seven Haven leaks. Going a bit meta, the Avatar and their cyclical nature/struggle is such a beautiful storytelling device.
misogyny, homophobia, and racism
Oh my gosh… I try not to go off on this anymore. But I do sometimes replace “Korra” with “Zuko” in whatever was said, or quote Bryke’s response.
F.C. Yee
I thought he did a great job, especially with the Kyoshi novels! And yes, the Avatar picking up their past lives’ mistakes is so poignant and cool. I’d dispute your assertion and argue that Aang “failed” later in life too, allowing things like corruption and anti-bender sentiment in Republic City to fester, tolerating the awful Earth Kingdom monarchy, letting long dissent within the White Lotus and their role fester into the Red Lotus and so on. He left a political mess, too, and his dogmatic pacifism was ultimately to blame. But this was largely implied background/subtext in LoK, never explicitly spelled out.
In short only one piece of media in this setting treats complete success as something even possible for most avatars.
…Still, I do agree in the context of ATLA. Being in the unusual position of watching LoK first, still reeling from her recovery, I found it a bit odd that Aang never had to deal with that trauma, and didn’t really have to compromise his pacifism in the end.
is that that’s what we liked about the gaang.
This is a weird thing… Last time I was on Reddit, they did idealize the Gaang. Flaws and mistakes were not really that. This is one of the reasons I left /r/thelastairbender behind.
And as for why I trust them, it’s two things: firstly that they fought the network to make korra a girl, then they asked and got permission to make her end up in a queer relationship and they never looked back on either. The comics kept them together and had Kya mention being a lesbian and talking about how the four nations each treat queer relationships, as well as mentioning that Kyoshi was bi. And it managed to not feel preachy, but more like the cool aunt just sitting her down and explaining how the world works for people who aren’t an army unto themselves.
True…
But I’ve also watched a few Viacom investor slides, and what makes me weary is that they are A: treating Avatar like a kids franchise, bucketing it with TMT, Spongebob and so on in presentations, and B: explicitly pushing sprawling, heavily monetized franchises.It makes me think they are going to push the writers towards a younger audience (with the twin post-Korra Avatars reportedly being 9 already raising my eyebrow. And with this, comes “family friendly” scrutiny, especially in the current political environment.
Oops. Here I am, rambling too.
But yeah, I’m excited too. Honestly I’m going to get a lot out of my system just writing fanon fantasies down before the premiere :/
If avatar was the war, korra explains why it was fought. Yoj fight for every single person, you carry each with you. It’s crucial to learn empathy and become one with what isn’t you. Only then can you grow, only then you can inspire.
It’s only slander if it isn’t true and Korra wasn’t particularly good anyway.
I totally agree. She completely gets destroyed every season, then breaks 1000 year chain of rebirth. Plus, a worse love story than Twilight.
Korra was mint. What you on about?
In fact that show being what it is is the only reason some people i know got into the franchise as a whole. ATLA looked too kiddy for them.
I so strongly disagree. LoK was awesome. Even years past the shows, Korra and Zuko are still two of my favorite fictional characters ever.
Cool. It’s still not the general consensus though and I don’t understand why this is a hill so many choose to die on.
I’ll die on the hill that it was bad with you, but I also believe atla being good was luck and them just throwing shit at a board, same with stranger things which just grabbed hella random concepts and admitted to being inspired by shit like elfen lied.
Your opinion of LoK aside, this is a weird take given that
It’s only slander if it isn’t true
You could have stopped there but you felt the need to add
and Korra wasn’t particularly good anyway.
totally unprompted. Like, you’re the one who made the first statement about whether LoK was “good” or not, so following up with “idk why other people” just seems silly. “Why?” Because you, that’s why.
And that’s fine. You’re allowed to have your opinion and they’re allowed to have theirs. Just don’t act like it’s a mystery that people with different opinions want to share them when you’re sharing yours.
Boo hoo, are your fee fees hurt?
It’s always the same with you Korra apologists. Ome negative statement is followed by a tirade.
That first half refers to the objective problems of Korra while the second is subjective but backed by the first.
totally unprompted
Sorry for engaging with the title. And no, not “because me”. People just don’t want to accept that Korra, both show and character, aren’t a good sequel. As a show, not bad but as a sequel it’s too wishy-washy. Trying to tie into a story, pissing on it and trying to appeal to a new audience allnat once just leads to a divided audience like this. I don’t dislike Korra, I genuinely like some of it, but I can’t watch it as a TLA fan because of what it does to the legacy.
Of all the hills to die on, trying to establish Korra as a net good is a waste of time. As for your attempt to dumb down my comments and make them seem more disjointed, well done, valiant effort. It shows how good an argument is when the go-to is to try tear down the opposition instead of pointing out where it’s wrong. Just tells me you have nothing. Have a nice day. I know I will because I’ll be spending it away from Lemmy and this wave of Korra rabids.
Plus, if it wasn’t for the blind vitriol, it might become apparent that the initial statement also refers to whatever the writing of the new show decides Korra did after the credits. If her actions caused the end of the world, for example, then it’s not slander to call her an idiot.
All you did was berate LoK fans for their opinion and didn’t elaborate on why you think it’s bad. You didn’t provide any constructive contribution to the discussion, you just wanted to be an asshole.
Boo hoo, are your fee fees hurt?
If so many are “choosing to die on” it then maybe you’re the one that is outside the general consensus… I’ve only ever heard people say good things about it. You’re literally the first I’ve ever heard say anything negative about it.
Let me be the second to visit you under your rock then! Korra was an incredibly disappointing and obnoxious follow-up to one of the best shows ever released.
“So many” does not mean “the majority” in any capacity. You seem to be taking this weirdly personally and as for me being the first person you’ve encountered voice this opinion, you’ve either somehow avoided the conversation of TLoK online or you’re lying to defend your bias which, again, is kinda weird since I don’t recall saying the character or the sbow were bad, only “not good”. There’s still a world of nuance in that range.
I was not the same person you were talking to in the first place so I’m literally not “the first person you’ve encountered voice this opinion”. I was offering a follow up from what someone else said because your claim literally seems insane to me.
You seem to be confused. This “You’re literally the first” was your point, not mine. I’m in no way claiming I’ve never heard someone say they like Korra so you’ve either confused yourself somehow or you’re willfully twisting the conversation.
“So many” does not mean “the majority” in any capacity
Correct. However, “general consensus” would mean the majority in most capacities, so it feels like you’re shifting the goalposts here.
As for what the general consensus actually is, well… seems to be pretty positive for the most part. On Rotten tomatoes it has a 89% critic score and 79% audience. On imdb it’s rated at 8.3. On metacritic, it has an 8.0 user score. I would say the general consensus is actually pretty positive. No, it’s not as high as ATLA. And yes, people on fandom boards are often going to be more critical, especially in a highly engaged fandom. But the general consensus does seem to be that LoK was, in fact, “good”. Doesn’t mean you have to revise your opinion about it being mediocre, or whatever, but y’know, you don’t have to die on the hill that the general consensus is that it’s “not good”.
Also,
You seem to be taking this weirdly personally
The person you’re responding to made one comment in the entire thread? It disagrees with you, but there is nothing in it that even remotely suggests they’re taking it “weirdly personally”. Don’t project that on them.
I’ve watched the Avatar fandom for years, and discussion of tlok has grown more toxic and toxic. I’d say that does not represent the average viewer, especially those that stepped away for awhile.
The comment threads from the episode premieres are like a totally different fandom.
Premiere threads are always like that. The Agatha All Along premiere threads from a few months ago were overwhelmingly positive too, but now that people have had a few months to digest, the more critical opinions are starting to surface more and more.
It was like that with Korra too - it’s just that with how good ATLA was it took a bit longer for people to stop coping and realize just how bad LoK was.
with how good ATLA was
This is my issue with the fandom.
ATLA was not perfect! It had a lot of immaturity, and crude jokes. It had bad or slow episodes. It had a self-indulgent habit of trying to introduce/develop too many characters, dues ex machinas, plot holes, and crappy video quality even on the blu-ray, which I have spent many hours trying to fix. And on mercurial, angry, inconsistently acting, constantly complaining and yelling, constantly losing main characters that make annoyingly impulsive, irrational decisions… I’m referencing Zuko, not Korra, and he’s one of my favorite characters ever. I could go on and on tearing every little detail and flaw of ATLA open.
I swear, every single sentence on the Avatar subreddit these days is prefixed with “ATLA is so incredible but,” every critique sent to oblivion (except for a few memes like the Lion Turtle), and it was not always like that. It reminds me of the Star Wars fandom, which I peeked my head into after being blown away by Andor… only to find people tearing it apart because it’s not like the original movies or something.
So… yeah. Hate to be salty, but there is some salt.
And this isn’t just about LoK either. It’s NATLA too, and even the fantastic novels. And it’s already starting with Seven Havens.
Preach!
Too late, my friend, the fans are coming for my throat 😂 I guess truth cuts too deep but I suppose this is the show that appeals to a particular mind.
No, you were kinda being a jerk about it, in a way that had very little to do with Avatar. That’s why people piled on.
