I’ve applied for jobs a few times and this has always been a problem. Now that I’ve been out of college for a while it’s even more of a problem. I don’t have anyone from college that would even remember me. I can’t use my current coworkers because I don’t want my current employer to know I’m leaving until I have a new job lined up. I don’t keep in touch with old coworkers. I don’t do anything outside of work as far as volunteering or anything. I know I’m not supposed to use friends or family. Who is even left after that? The only people I have the contact info for are friends, family, and my current boss.
Use your friends and family. Tell them you’re doing so and instruct them to lie for you.
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I guess that’ll have to do. It just feels bad that I have to start off what I’m hoping to be a good job by lieing. Luckilly my mom remaried so most of my sibblings have different last names than me. I also have one friend who was technically my coworker at my last job. Sure we were in completely different departments but we still worked for the same company.
My buddy and I have had a long-standing agreement to be each others’ occupational references for job applications. When either of us is filling out an application that requires a reference, we give the other a head’s up e-mail that includes the dates we supposedly worked there and how to answer any specific questions that might come up. I even made a fake letterhead and have a box of fancy paper to use if one of us needs an actual letter of recommendation (that’s only ever come up once in the last 10 years).
These employers would throw your app straight into the bin if you asked them for employee references, so fuck 'em.
There are four questions you’re going to get from everyone who bothers to call (which won’t be a lot of people, tbh). “What was their hire date?”, “What was their last date of work?”, “Are they eligible for rehire?”, and “What was their final salary/pay rate?”. Make a post-it note for your reference-buddy with what you want them to tell a caller for those questions (never say “No” to “eligible to rehire”). If the caller asks anything else, the answer is “I’m sorry, our HR policy does not allow us to answer that question.”
“What was their final salary/pay rate?”
Illegal to ask in California, btw
This is great info! Thanks for sharing!
While this initially sounds a bit ‘wrong’ I realised that I’ve been asked to be a fake reference before. So it’s actually a part of the norm.
I’ve never been asked to do that before but I know it’s a thing. I was just hoping to do things “the right way”. But if I need to lie then I guess I will.
I’ve done it for friends and offered it countless times
This is pretty much the only actual option. I’m sure there’s a more “ethical” option but I’ll be fucked if I can think of one.
The problem with this is if you have parents who solemnly believe honesty is best policy. My parents might lie about my issues by way of omission, to try to paint me in a good light but they sure as hell won’t lie that they are my parents.
I used people who have only seen me at my best, but aren’t relatives.
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volunteer leaders from places I love to volunteer. If I love volunteering there I don’t usually see it as a job, so I’ll always be at my enthusiastic passionate best.
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take a week’s work experience somewhere and use them as a reference (or just apply at the place you volunteered if you liked it, a week is enough to give a good impression better than any reference) - a week is usually long enough to give you a reference, but short enough that it’s still a novel experience so you don’t have time to show your worst or how quickly you burn out.
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my previous boss was great for use as a reference as he’s honest, but he has a way of drastically downplaying everyone’s bad qualities to other people (if there were no good qualities, he would’ve fired you anyway), while at the same time managing to make you feel bad for having those same qualities.
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I know it’s a bit late for that, but adding people proactively just in case I need them to vouch for me later is the #1 reason I even have a LinkedIn account.
Yes, this is good advice. It might not help now, but just as you go along in your career keep note of good references, be sure to link with them on LinkedIn while working with them, and if possible get them to write you a recommendation on LinkedIn as well.
Don’t know you, but you’re a tireless worker who goes as above and beyond. You’ve always been there when needed whether it was helping me understand that new online ordering stuff with COVID or just mowing my lawn when you were younger. I would definitely love to have someone like you as an employee. Send them my way
So this is advice I’ve offered many co-workers and friends over the years. This advice actually came directly from my first boss.
Always try and make time to have a lunch with a former co-worker. Just one, co-worker, it’s one hour, once a month. Just have a lunch with someone, anyone from a former job. This helps in a couple of ways, you keep your network open and you keep it expanding. These people aren’t your friends, but they could turn into friendship if you wish them to be.
Prior to the pandemic, I had a list of my months, and which co-workers I would reach out to from former jobs. This has been huge for me as it has helped me land new job opportunities and it has turned some former workers into great friendships. But it’s just 12 hours a year, and 12 lunch’s a year. But it’s just enough that I’ll always have someone I can use as a reference.
I’ve now had many different jobs over the years, but I still schedule lunches with former co-workers. But I make sure to reach back out to people to set these up, it’s helped me also become more social than I normally am.
So once you’ve got this new job in the bag, do not lose touch with the old co-workers make an effort to have lunch with someone, anyone, but at least someone you wouldn’t pull your hair out after spending an hour with them.
It’s just 12 hours once a year.
edit: don’t get me wrong this isn’t an easy task my first boss had to force me to go to lunches I didn’t want to go to.
I am definitely friends with and will keep in contact with a few of my coworkers. One of them is the forever dungeon master (the DnD kind not the kinky kind) in my friend group. The problem in my case is that I only have 3 jobs in my work history and the 1st and 3rd job are the same company. I started at my current company straight out of highschool and worked my way up. Then I went elsewhere for a few years before one of my old coworker friends basically begged me to come back and work on a new project so now my excoworkers are now my current coworkers again. At my second job I was a one man department and I was lucky if I even saw anyone else all day. I probably should have tried to network more there though. As I said in the origional post I really don’t want to use any current coworkers so that eliminates 2 thirds of my work history and I didn’t network for the other third. I’ll definitely be keeping in touch with people from my new job, considering I’ll be apprenticing under someone it should be easy to make at least one contact.
Once a month? That’s more than I see my friends
This is excellent advice. People need to note it down.
OP, you say no one in college would remember you. What about a professor or TA? I kept grades for years on my students just for this reason. Even if I didn’t remember specifics about someone, I could comment on their performance.
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As a former college lecturer I definitely remember my students for years, so thats still an option. I’d do whatever lecturer you knew best and then the admin department who can confirm that you were there.
I honestly didn’t really know any of my professors. I’m one of those lucky people that doesn’t need to study to do well so I never spoke to any of my professors outside of class. If I had finished that degree maybe that would have changed in the higher level classes but as it is I only went for a couple years before I realized I would hate actually working in that field. I just wound up teaching myself a trade instead.
Seconding this. I also teach higher ed and would definitely recommend a student from years ago if they reached out.
Modern learning management systems keep your old assignments for years so even if I didn’t recognize the student’s name it would be easy to look up their performance.
They won’t background check your references. I invented “Steve” as my manager and left his number. Turns out “Steve” was actually my boyfriend.
Disclaimer: this is based on the UK, other jurisdictions may vary.
The purpose of references is to confirm that you are who you say you are. You don’t need someone to vouch for your brilliance and dedication, only your existence. Any former school or employer should be willing to confirm that yes, you did work/study there when you say you worked/studied there. Get in touch with them and ask who reference requests should be directed to.
No one should expect you to provide a reference from a current employer until after you’ve been offered the job. So if you need to use your current employer, just ask them to hold off until the pre-employment phase.
Dude, I got you. Pm me what you’re applying f or and I will write you a glowing review/recce.
Sometimes it depends on how far the employers head is not too far up their bums. What you should try to do is to build up a history with contact details - but that is also of limited value as folks move on and change numbers.
What they are looking for is some kind of ‘trusted authority’ - so your current boss is the main one. However, they should look more at your assessment of your skills and relevant abilities and qualificastions.
Then they should call you in for a chat and interview you. Then if they don’t think you suck, they can give you a trial period during which you must prove yourself.
Don’t over-think it.
What kind of employer asks for references these days? Such an inadequate and dated concept.
Tell us that you haven’t looked for work recently without blah blah…
Here In Australia many still do.
We have a very social culture, so many people still believe the best way to guage someone’s personality and work ethic is to talk to those who are familiar but not too close.
Of course the bigger the company the less likely they are to actually call those references - many just like seeing them on the page, sort of a “does he have non-famillial references? Yes, that’s a checkbox ticked ☑”
I work for a fairly big university and we still ask (or at least we did pre-COVID, when I handled some recruitment stuff). And it has to be, like… two references from two different positions (or classes or whatever)? Again, unless something changed.
References are hard as shit to get ahold of, too. I could pay off all my debts if I had a nickel for every time I had to get recruitment to nab us more refs.
Schools seem to have weird requirements. I work in broadcast engineering and applied for a bunch of jobs lately and the only one that required references was one at a community college. And not only that but they also required I give them two phone numbers on the application. Who has more than one phone number these days unless your work happens to provide you with a phone?
???
Did they not accept email references or something? What a weird way of doing it.
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Not to mention worthless. Most references can’t say shit.
And when they are, they might not be believable. My husband was once called as a previous supervisor and he was like “oh yeah that guy, we haven’t spoken in years but he saved my life once so I got nothing but good things to say about him” and like… no way the recruiter doesn’t think that’s a plant.
It’s a local hvac business. It could just be that they haven’t updated the application in a long time. I’m betting getting someone to update the application on their website is near the bottom of their priority list. Maybe I should just go in and physically drop off a resume.
Are there any charitable volunteer opportunities near you?
My city isn’t teribly big so there isn’t much. I also work nights currently so the bigger issue is that most opporitunities don’t line up with my sleep schedule.
You might consider searching “[city/county name] rescue mission” to find opportunities. Shelters need people in the evenings to help with check-ins and with serving meals. Maybe they could even use someone overnight.
There are probably churches in your area that could use help as well. You do not have to be a member (or religious at all) to volunteer with them.
Alcoholics Anonymous (and similar programs) usually meet in the evening and could use help with running meetings.
Seriously, volunteer opportunities are the best way to build references. Someone always needs help somewhere. And what better reference could you get from someone than “Yeah, I know them, we volunteer together”?
My man
Your new employer will be looking for references who can provide information and context around how you are to work with, how you have dealt with complexity and how you show initiative.
They will ideally want to understand how you work and how you behave.You NEED someone you have worked with directly or who has managed you.
Highly suggest you find someone at your current workplace ideally someone at a more senior level to you. Or someone at same level that can vouch that you can rely on.
What is the worst case at your current place if they know you are interviewing?
The problem with my current place is that we’re overstaffed. I haven’t had any work to do in months and it’s not showing any signs of getting better. It’s only a matter of time until there are layoffs. Considering I’m the highest paid person in my department, I’m a likely candidate. If they know I’m looking for another job then they have no reason to not just can me on the spot. I can’t afford to not have income hence why I’m trying to find a new job before I get layed off. I can’t risk losing my job without having another one lined up. Yes if I got laid off I could get unemployment but that takes time and durring that time I would have no money. Unemployment also isn’t exactly enough to live off of.
Piggybacking off this, I wouldn’t just ask a direct manager whether he would vouch for you, I’d also ask for feedback on areas needing improvement too. You don’t have to go into your next job with that same blind spot. Imagine being in a job interview and when they ask you about your “weak areas” you can respond, “I talked with my previous supervisor about this exact issue!” For the last half decade I’ve made a habit of asking for corrective feedback and taking performance reviews seriously. It’s like the opposite of burning a bridge! My current and previous boss are happy to vouch for me!
That’s weird, it probably depends on the field you’re in, but I’ve never been asked for references and I had many interviews…
What field are you in that they’ve never asked for references? I’ve had to provide references for a range of jobs, from warehouse assembly line work to medical research
I’m in software and I’ve never been asked
Not op but I’m in manufacturing (aerospace) and didn’t provide references to my last two employers. I could have provided them if asked but I was never asked, and I didn’t offer. I was background checked by a third party though, which included some basic resume verification.
Electrical industry (electrician/maintenance/inspection/etc) here and I’ve never been asked. Probably depends on your area and how desperately they’re hiring.
Weird. I’m pretty close; I’m applying for a HVAC service tech job and they definitely ask for references.
I work in broadcast TV and have never been asked for references, nor have I asked for references for anybody I’ve hired. I was also told we’re basically only allowed to confirm someone worked for us if we get called for a reference. We’re not supposed to comment on their performance.
You can use professors since you went to college. If you ever worked for family or volunteered, those could work as well.
As other mentioned, honestly, you can even do friends if they can vouch as project partners or other maybe unpaid work.
Then you can just go the made up route, but just make sure to have a believable story that you can remember, lol. They don’t really need to know that they are your friends, TBH…
