• shalafi
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    1 day ago

    It’s only been in the past couple of years that I’ve begun to appreciate how advanced the Romans were, for how long, for how far the fall was.

    One tiny example was the perfume ampoules on here the other day (probably posted by PugJesus). They were so rich they could have people blowing hot glass into tiny birds, filling them with perfume, reheating and sealing, all for a one-time use item.

    It’s not that the rich could afford such things, it’s that Roman society was advanced enough to support such arts. Does that make sense? I doubt anyone was doing such work in Great Depression America, not enough of that work enough that samples would survive 2,000 years. (That was a mess, hope someone gets me.)

    • PugJesus@piefed.socialOPM
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      1 day ago

      I think I get (and agree with) what you’re saying. It’s not that Romans had rich folk or fine craftsmen, though obviously they needed both - it’s that Roman society produced enough of an excess, and had enough interest in complex arts, to make such things into an industry.

      A society living hand-to-mouth isn’t going to be able to support the education and sustained practice necessary for an artist/artisan who makes such immensely delicate trinkets. It requires a massive society-wide synergy of effort and surplus to both create and enjoy such baubles. These artifacts, though not productive themselves, are a result of massive efficiency and societal complexity, relative to the time. The glassworker needs glass, needs to be fed so he can focus on nothing but his work, requires the contacts to get his products from himself to the consumer to be able to produce such things. Not just a pet artisan with a patron (though Rome certainly had those), but the result of an entire social system.

      Though less flashy and more (ha) plebeian, it’s one of the reasons I really appreciate Roman cookware. A society that doesn’t have enough metalworkers and metal to do anything but meet the basic needs for agricultural tools isn’t going to be mass-producing metal pots and pans for the use of the peasantry. But Rome did, because it could.

      It’s a little comfort, relative to all the necessary things, but it feels sweet and triumphant to know that it was available. A metal pan isn’t going to feed you more, nor will it keep you warmer or healthier (by any substantial degree in a near-subsistence-level society) than not having one. But it improves your quality of life. It’s a comfort, and one that is only possible because all of society’s gears are turning with… acceptable efficiency. Exceptional efficiency compared to what came before it. Not just a comfort, but a symbol of society’s success.

      • shalafi
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        1 day ago

        Roman society produced enough of an excess… the result of an entire social system…

        Nailed exactly what I was trying to say, but better and more filled out. As I said, I am just now appreciating the depth of Roman tech, economy and culture. And you’re a big part of that!

        • PugJesus@piefed.socialOPM
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          1 day ago

          And you’re a big part of that!

          Hearing that I helped spark a little interest in Ancient Rome for someone absolutely makes my day!

    • Drusas@fedia.io
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      1 day ago

      They were so rich they could have people blowing hot glass into tiny birds…

      Oh god, those poor birds.