Hey all, I just purchased a Moonlander and after using it for a day, I unplugged it and packed it back up because I noticed my muscle memory on my laptop was already deteriorating!
I want to be an ergomech user, but I also need to frequently use my laptop by itself with a standard keyboard. Is it possible to keep my muscle memory for both? Have any of you had success switching back and forth between a split ergo and a standard keyboard?
Any advice or reassurance is appreciated. This was a massive purchase for me and this issue has me very disheartened at the moment.
Update: I got it back out a couple days ago and it turns out all I needed to do was use it for a day and then sleep on it so my brain could do a firmware update. I’m back at the 70wpm I was with staggered, and yet my proficiency with staggered has only dropped about 5/10wpm.
Just a short term thing. You asked your fingers to think twice before typing. They are giving you opportunity to rewire muscle memory. Once you are done learning they will go back to normal.
I use a custom layout that is way different than qwerty, in ortho and column staggered boards, for about 2 years. And for my surprise I still can type as fast as before in my laptop. If you go for a layout that is not similar to qwerty, it might help retaining your muscle memory.
If you stick with it you’ll make steady consistent progress. One thing that really helped me was tracking my progress with monkeytype.com - it might not feel like you’re getting better but seeing how closely correlated practice and improvement are really kept me motivated to stick with it.
I haven’t lost the ability to type as I previously did, though I do find myself resenting being forced to use laptop keyboards. I can do like 60wpm hunt and peck on a row staggered keyboard, and a bit more touch typing on an ortho/ergo/split, but I can’t touch type on a row staggered kb and I can’t hunt and peck on an ortho/ergo/split, haha
I take it from this that you were not able to touch type on a standard keyboard prior to getting the ergo? I can touch type on a staggered board and am worried about losing that ability.
No I didn’t, but I was surprised I haven’t lost the ability to type as I used to on a row staggered keyboard. It might be different adjusting to touchtyping though since they’re basically the same skill just you have to compensate for row stagger… My suggestion would be to not go too long without doing one of the two, that way you can keep your skills honed…
I experienced this at first with my ergo, and for me it is currently not an issue. There are some minor issues with some of the super common keys that are in different places (like enter which is currently on my left thumb on my ergo, and right pinkie on normal keyboard).
Starting with my ergo was also very disheartening (for me I went way too extreme with my switches which killed my accuracy for a month), but I love it now.
I use a QWERTY layout on my moonlander and I don’t have any problems switching between it and my laptop. As others have said, it can take me a minute or two for the muscle memory to come back, but then I’m fine afteer that.
My only issue is that I purposefully removed CAPS LOCK from my moonlander and I keep accidentally hitting it instead of TAB on my laptop. But that’s a me issue and not a huge problem.
While I still needed to think about the split ortho layout I struggled a bit going back and forth, but once I got fluent with split ortho I stopped having issues switching between them. It’s just a learning curve, you will very likely get past it.
(at least for normal typing, I do constantly mess up hotkeys when I’m not on a QMK keyboard)
I haven’t personally tried, but I have heard a lot of people say that switching between isn’t too bad. It can take a minute or two for the memories to come back though.
I’ve also heard that using different keymap layouts (ie, QWERTY vs COLEMARK) on different physical layouts. QWERTY for typical rowstag, COLEMARK for ergo.
I’d strongly recommend against different layouts for different keyboards. I tried to do this with QWERTY on my work laptop and Colemak-dh for my ergo and it just makes you worse at typing on both. I guess if you’re around 40 wpm it wouldn’t matter but there’s no way you can retain 100 wpm muscle memory on two layouts
Sure, I’d agree with you about switching between QWERTY and colemak, but I think this guy is just talking about different staggers. I do this -all.the.time-, and it’s no problem.
Whatever way you go, I would suggest that you spend a day a week typing on your laptop to retain muscle memory. Part of it is for sure the layout and key combinations, but I found keys very different in feel to both chocs and mx with the super low travel. So that is another thing you need to keep.>
This here is good advice
No worries, I routinely swap between my 34 key weirdo keyboard and my laptop without any trouble.
One thing that you might find helpful is to get some really unique keycaps on the ergo board so it feels different. I had MT3 keycaps on my ergo board while I was learning it, although that being said, now I’ve switched to choc switches with essentially laptop keycaps, and I can still type on my laptop just fine.
This has been my experience as well. I made no effort to practice with my laptop keyboard, just occasional usage, and it’s been easy to switch between.
I use a keyboardio which is pretty similar to the moonlander layout and don’t really have much issue with switching between it and my laptop keyboard. Ive been using it for a few years now, so I don’t remember exactly, but I think in the beginning while I was still getting used to keyboardio I had trouble switching between them, but once I got better with it they were different enough that I can use either with no real issues. If I had to guess, in the beginning your brain is a little overwhelmed with the new keyboard layout that it gets a bit foggy when switching back to a regular one, but then once you learn the new layout it kinda solidifies in your mind and becomes a separate muscle memory.
Just keep at it. I took me a couple weeks and then I was at the point where I could easily switch back and forth. But I had the same thing where after the first few weeks of using ortho, I had some issues going back. But they went away pretty quickly. For a little while I kept trying to switch back and forth each day, but not sure if that helped. These days I’m mostly moonlander, but when I’m traveling or on a plane, I may just us the laptop and my brain/fingers just know what to do.
So, basically, keep at it and you’ll be fine.
I think I was just placing my hands weirdly because I’ve been using it this week and by now I feel great with it.
I work on both a 36 key split board and my laptop’s board and I find it pretty easy to go back and forth. I think it helps to have a fairly different layout on the ergo board, it helps keep the muscle memory separate. I still use qwerty on both, but the modifiers and everything are all different.
I will say I mess up keys like x and c a little more often on the laptop now. Those keys are in similar places, but the difference in row stagger can trip me up a little…
Some folks find it easier to maintain separate muscle memory when they use a different non QWERTY layout on their ergo boards
Yeah, I use my Mac’s keyboard often enough without issue. Just takes some time as you are developing that new ergo memory.
You can if you keep it up. I regularly switch between several physical layouts, and it’s not a problem if the keymap is the same.
I can still use my laptop keyboard, but it’s annoying without the keymap efficiencies. But I do have Colemak DH installed as a layout. I haven’t really kept up with qwerty, but I can do it if needed (I’m using it on my phone).
My solution was to switch to smaller, wireless boards that sit on a “bridge” over my laptop keyboard.
