We are open-sourcing (AGPLv3) and going live with our mobile app beta on June 15th. This beta is locked to Android users and Plutonium iOS users. We plan a full rollout in 1 month to Google Play, Apple App Store, F-Droid, and Obtanium after we knock out a few more bugs and features.
A bit late but I didn’t see anyone else sharing this.
Excellent. AGPL 3.0, to me, is the best license to fight enshittification and fights the “embrace, extend, extinguish” M.O. at its heart.
Noob here: so do I need to convince my friends to switch to Fluxer or can I interact directly with their Discord accounts from Fluxer?
No, there’s zero integration with Discord that I’m aware of.
Another centralised system. By that simple definition, it will eventually turn against its users, like discord (or worse). Run away (ideally towards federated systems, XMPP with Movim is decent, and improving fast in areas that seem to matter to discord users, with EU funds, Matrix is another one)
It’s not centralized. Self hosting should be available soon, and federation available sometime after that.
XMPP is terrible by comparison.
Then it’s even worse: if the goal is this, why give up on almost 3 decades of expertise solving that very problem? It’s a very complex one, believe it or not, and you can be sure that Fluxer won’t eyeball it in one shot, especially since federation is admittedly an afterthought and not baked in the design.
XMPP is terrible by comparison
In which way, exactly? You cornered yourself into precisely NOT being able to invoke existing client shortcomings. Protocol-wise, you would be surprised to learn how ubiquitous XMPP is even today, and for very good and practical reasons.
In all seriousness, Fluxer should just have been another XMPP client, purposely built for discord refugees. It would have gotten ahead faster by not reinventing a complex wheel, offered from the get go those characteristics (self hosting and federation) that are far-away roadmap items, and probably gained goodwill and many users in the process.
Time will tell, of course, but the internet history is riddled with failed messengers which bit more they could chew, the odds are not in Fluxer’s favour for one.
Then it’s even worse: if the goal is this, why give up on almost 3 decades of expertise solving that very problem?
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
In which way, exactly?
In the way of usability. XMPP is actually a hodgepodge of different protocols sewn together and inconsistent across apps and servers. Fluxer has many many features that XMPP does not offer. If you’re familiar with Discord, you already know what those are.
You cornered yourself into precisely NOT being able to invoke existing client shortcomings.
Again, no idea what you’re talking about.
Fluxer should just have been another XMPP client
No, because as I’ve already explained, XMPP is terrible.
Then it’s even worse: if the goal is this, why give up on almost 3 decades of expertise solving that very problem?
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
I am talking about XMPP being almost 3 decades old and having gained a TON of experience and clever protocol design in the process. XMPP survived multiple generations of messaging apps (ICQ, AIM, Yahoo, MSN, Skype, GTalk, …)
In the way of usability. XMPP is actually a hodgepodge of different protocols sewn together and inconsistent across apps and servers.
Don’t believe all the disinformation you read online. XMPP is a IETF standard. It is extensible, and that’s the pragmatic take: in a federated environment, you can’t impose clients and servers to run identical versions, and so the protocol is versioned and contain fallbacks for all the major features. To help implementers cut through legacy extensions, there are compatibility suites that are revisited every few years or so. You will see that, the minute Fluxer goes self-hosted and federated (if ever), this clever extensibility will be dearly missed (we saw enough of that already with Matrix).
Moreover, XMPP has multiple independent client AND servers implementations, written in distinct languages. This guarantees that no actor can single-handedly take-over the ecosystem (a big risk with Fluxer, and many alternatives), and creates a fertile ground for innovation.
Fluxer has many many features that XMPP does not offer. If you’re familiar with Discord, you already know what those are.
If that’s so obvious, perhaps you could cite some? Did you even look into recent movim versions?
You cornered yourself into precisely NOT being able to invoke existing client shortcomings.
Again, no idea what you’re talking about.
You drove the discussion towards criticisms of the protocol, which is not the same thing as how clients implement it. In other words, you can’t simply say “XMPP sucks because this unmaintained client is ugly”.
No, because as I’ve already explained, XMPP is terrible.
XMPP deserves some fair criticism (like anything else having reached the real world and a substantial user-base), but that’s not one. You just come across as someone who doesn’t know much about the subject.
I am talking about XMPP being almost 3 decades old
This is not the win you think it is.
Don’t believe all the disinformation you read online
I’m not reading anything, I’ve actually used it.
perhaps you could cite some?
I already did. Have you not used Discord? Are you just completely oblivious to the popularity the platform has achieved in 1/3 the time that XMPP has been around, and seen massive adoption? Ask yourself why that is.
In other words, you can’t simply say “XMPP sucks because this unmaintained client is ugly”.
Uhhhh I absolutely can when all of the clients are ugly and dated. Movim doesn’t even have a client at all, its just a PWA, which is a really poor experience.
You just come across as someone who doesn’t know much about the subject.
I don’t, and I shouldn’t need to. Good software doesn’t require vast amounts of research, you just use it. I’ve used 100 different XMPP clients and softwares and they all deliver a poor experience after only a few minutes of use.
I am talking about XMPP being almost 3 decades old
This is not the win you think it is.
It is not the win YOU think it is. So far you haven’t been able to cite a single specific issue with the protocol or universal flaws with clients. Get to terms with it: you are spreading FUD. Or make a real, substantiated case that supports your point.
Movim doesn’t even have a client at all, its just a PWA, which is a really poor experience.
Can’t wait until you realise discord is essentially the same thing :-) . Yup, it’s a web app. Always has.
You just come across as someone who doesn’t know much about the subject.
I don’t, and I shouldn’t need to. Good software doesn’t require vast amounts of research, you just use it.
People are using WhatsApp by the billions, which is essentially a stripped-down XMPP running on an ancient fork of ejabberd (there are many other examples of widespread use of XMPP: it props up your android notifications, it runs the nintendo switch network, EA/Riot games in-app chats are clients for it, etc).
But, nobody ever said that you need to research XMPP to use it. Only to have a sensible and articulated commentary in good faith. Which once again you fail at doing.So far you haven’t been able to cite a single specific issue with the protocol or universal flaws with clients
And in not going to. They are numerous. Anyone who has used them knows.
Can’t wait until you realise discord is essentially the same thing :-) . Yup, it’s a web app. Always has.
I don’t think you know what a web app is.
EA/Riot games in-app chats are clients for it, etc).
Really? So I can message EA users with my MOVIM account? No? Well there’s a problem…
Only to have a sensible and articulated commentary in good faith. Which once again you fail at doing.
You can’t just label arguments you don’t like or agree with as “bad faith”. I have no motivation to hate on XMPP or promote Fluxer, other than liking one and disliking the other.
