This was during a Q&A after he spoke about Palestine years ago. You still see many liberals and so-called “leftists” (who are really just libs) crying like this girl. People act like fascists then cry when people call them what they are.

    • @flossdaily
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      1 year ago

      The problem with his impassioned argument is that at its core, it’s a straw man. NO ONE is arguing that because Jews suffered in the Holocaust they have a right to make Palestinians suffer.

      The actual argument being made in relationship to the Holocaust is that the existence of the Israeli state was a necessity, since millions of Jews lost their homes and their countries, while the entire world slammed the door in their faces (including the United States).

      The British had control of the land, and they, along with the international community carved out a very small part of it to turn into Israel and solve this tremendous refugee crisis, and it had broad international support.

      At the time, by the way, the Arabs living in the region, under British rule, were offered statehood alongside Israel.

      They turned it down, and opted instead to spend the next 60 years or so trying to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.

      I think Jews are absolutely right in saying that the actions of the international community during the Holocaust, (in some case cooperating in the slaughter, in almost all cases slamming their gates in the faces of the Jews fleeing the genocide) absolutely justifies the existence of an Israeli state.

      The Holocaust was just one atrocity visited upon the Jewish people by Europe. For thousands of years Europe and Asia have been brutal to Jews, expelling them from their land, and scapegoating them for pretty much any and everything.

      Even the United States had “no dogs, no Jews” signs up at public swimming pools not so long ago.

      So, yes, using the Holocaust to justify the existence of the state of Israel is absolutely fair game.

      And once you acknowledge a state’s right to exist, you are also acknowledging that, like all states, it has the right to defend itself from aggressors.

      Does that justify how Israel has treated the Palestinians? It really depends on what you think the alternative is?

      Palestinians have rejected every peace deal and two state solution ever put before them. And they have time and again returned to waves of terrorism as their sole negotiating tactic.

      At all times their leaders have been either unwilling or unable to negotiate an end to the conflict.

      The pro-Palestinian contingent never actually proposes a solution that keeps Israelis safe and secure. They just endlessly criticize Israel for literally any and all actions.

  • @greyhaven7
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    -321 year ago

    Fuck are you talking about libs? Conservatives are the ones who unthinkingly back Israel.

    • @[email protected]OP
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      231 year ago

      Unfortunately untrue considering Biden has promised and appears to be currently acting on providing all support possible.

      This is what we on the “far left” (Marxists, MLs, MLMs, etc.) mean when we say “the US does not have a two party system of governance- it has a uniparty, effectively one party rule.” The R and Ds may lightly disagree outwardly in their public persona, but actions speak louder than words, and every single US democrat president since the occupation of Palestine began under the current government has supported them essentially without hesitation and without reservation. Obviously the same is true for Republicans. They are united in their foreign policy agendas. And mostly united in domestic policy too… but that’s for a different day.

    • QueerCommie
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      1 year ago

      Biden’s a total open Zionist. I can’t find a linkable video, but in 1986 Joe Biden said it was time for people to stop apologizing for supporting Israel because the state is necessary for promoting US imperial interests in the region and if it didn’t exist they’d have to make a new Israel. AOC refused to even protest vote against more funding to Israel at this point. DSA people organized to get her in office and now she won’t even uphold the supposed principles she said she stood for. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/24/politics/aoc-israel-iron-dome-vote-explanation/index.html

      Edit: what we mean by “liberalism.”

      • @[email protected]OP
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        121 year ago

        It’s easier to count US politicians who aren’t Zionists than those who are… and I’ll help, the answer is like… two?

        Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar

        I’m unsure about Tlaib’s current stances. I think she’s still the US’ most anti-Zionist congressperson. She also gets called antisemitic constantly (or did a few years ago anyway) for making lukewarm, objectively true statements like “Israel treats Palestinians like the Nazis did the Jews.” Then people cry, and I will happily direct them to Norman above to rip their buttholes. Not that you need to be Jewish or have had parents in the Holocaust, but, I guess it doesn’t hurt. No can accuse Finkelstein of antisemitism, for sure.

        Anyway, the last I heard of Omar’s anti-Zionism was also several years ago. She spoke out in the House I believe, stuck by her words for a while, but ultimately some mixture of Pelosi, the broad democrat party and pro-Israel PAC seem to have beaten her into submission and silence. They tried to fuck her out her congressional seat too this past election and I’m sure they will continue. They meaning democrats/the DNC and donors… just for zero ambiguity there.

        AOC and Bernie will sometimes speak out. Feinstein, yeah the who just died, didn’t like the pro-Israel lobby. But all these incredibly powerful people either get broken into silence very very quickly or just change on their own or are never really pro-Palestine to begin with. The US is a hellhole, and this is yet another example of the corruption all throughout.

    • Kras Mazov
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      161 year ago

      You are thinking of liberals like in the US sense, I presume. When we say libs we are talking about neoliberals, which would be both the “left” and the right in the US.