I think that the corresponding psychic-sense power might be what people call intuition?

Okay, I can agree with that.

a sense that something important is happening somewhere at some time

I had never quite looked at it that way, but yes! I want to point out here that intuition as it is defined online is “the ability to understand something without conscious reasoning.” So essentially intuition can be modeled as understanding/knowing without the need for conscious processing or even better as knowledge that exists preeminently to an experience.

you just need to go do something, and then by trusting that feeling it takes you to something useful, important, or desirable to you subjectively

See this is where I struggle. I understand that trusting that feeling will potentially take me to a subjectively valuable experience, however I’ve run into somewhat of a conundrum. I’m at a point that I have experimented with utilizing the idea of preeminent knowledge, that I wield it similar to a blade. I can best describe it as seeing in the experience a way that my will could line up to add value relative to the experience at hand.

With infinite possibilities, where does one even start, though? They may disagree with my wording, but conventionally those of us still here have maintained access to a forum for storing and sharing concepts helpful to navigating the mind. In these terms, intuition can be modeled as a felt sense of knowing how to add value to the current experience or even how to construct the context to encourage valuable content. So as others have stated along the way, it may take many lifetimes for me to perfect this sense, but that doesn’t bother me.

By developing this sense, no matter the narrative, or how tightly/loosely it is stitched together, I can add something of value to any event. I just personally have lost all interest in any specific direction for stitching my own narratives along. If I can have anything how could I ever know what I want, and if I did get that, I probably wouldn’t need to add value to anything else again. That includes this forum, which I feel like I don’t add much value to, but I’m working on it!

Originally commented by u/Scew on 2017-10-22 09:33:50 (dop5cxm)

Except they are not the same, and deep down you know this.

Precisely the opposite of the case for me. Superficially they seem the same. Deep down is how I know they’re not.

ALL of your consciousness in ordinary waking and dreaming life is in context of bodily sense organs. You see dependent on eyes. You smell dependent on a nose. You hear dependent on ears. You taste dependent on a tongue. You feel dependent on skin. You think dependent on a brain. If any of those organs were damaged the deeply unconscious dependency you have of manifesting that type of experience would be ruptured. That’s why: bad eyes make you blind, bad ears make you deaf, bad skin makes you numb, bad tongue makes you ageusic, bad nose makes you anosmic, bad brain makes you die.

But I don’t, of course. That’s the whole illusion, isn’t it? That my capacity for experience is dependent on some external thing. The problem isn’t that my senses are tied to organs - it’s that I confuse them for being so tied. I support chipping away at this conclusion 100%, btw. That’s an important endeavor. I just find it more productive to do so by emphasizing the similarities between seemingly-organ-based sensory experiences and non-organ-based sensory experiences as opposed to emphasizing the difference between them. I’m not saying you can’t do it your way, but for me that approach would have counterproductive elements.

No where is this more apparent than in dreams where you probably almost always and a conventional person 100% always manifests their experiences in this form.

That’s not accurate to my dreams. In fact, it’s fairly uncommon for me to experience my conventional body in dreams.

I think the first is important up to a point, but I personally don’t want to go 100% selfing all of my experience. Some othering is good. I don’t want to consciously constantly have to micro-manage every detail of what manifests in my experience.

That’s fair. Long-term I don’t want to micro-manage every detail either. But just like I don’t want to tense every muscle in my body at once, if I’m going to exercise, I’d like to tense each and every one of them one at a time, and know that I have control over them, before deciding to let them relax.

The latter is bad imo. I do not want to make my ‘inner’ experiences any less inner or internal. I like my perspective being my own private space and I’m not interested in sharing it with anyone else.

I don’t mean to attempt to externalize your perspective itself, if by perspective you mean your fundamental capacities. I mean externalize things like your body perceptions - there are obvious issues with, for example, identifying with your circulatory and nervous system if there’s someone near by recklessly wielding a knife.

More squishiness can be good, but I don’t want everything to become so squishy that it becomes as fluid as water. Some stability and solidity in the world seems appealing to me. Water is too flexible. I don’t want my desk to just disappear on me all the sudden, or my computer to transform into an octopus. But obviously the world is imo too stable right now and doesn’t respond enough to my other conscious desires.

Like I said above, on an ultra-long timescale, I don’t want everything to be water either. But every time death rolls around, you’ve got a chance to wipe the slate pretty clean, and I’d rather knock down everything but the house’s foundations and start new than try to renovate this catastrophe one wall at a time.

I think it’s good to loosen up your identity and desires if you’re stressing out from always trying to micromanage experience to prevent undesirable experiences, but I personally do not recommend pursuing the absolute abolition of personal identity and desires. I think there’s nothing special about such a state, and I think that such a state is rather dull and boring. It’s equally impermanent and isn’t some sort of salvation.

I think there’s something pretty special about that state in the sense that there are attributes of it that can’t be ascribed to any other state. But, again, I agree, it’s not a long-term ambition.

But it is an option if one really does want that experience for a time.

And, IMO, a productive one.

Originally commented by u/Utthana on 2017-10-23 06:19:24 (doqf6qp)

(page 2)

I’m also interested in understanding this ‘stitching’ mental activity you say occurs between waking narratives that usually doesn’t happen between dreaming narratives. I’m too tired right now to think about it (I guess I need to stop waking and go dream a bit), but I may come back to this later on and comment more on that.

That’s fair. Here’s what else I’ve heard on this topic. I’ve heard some people are able to stitch their dream episodes into grand narratives just like the waking episodes. These people, when they dream at night, immerse themselves into a consistent world state instead of short random stories. They continue from where they have left off last time they were dreaming, and develop further narrative. I’ve heard accounts like that on a sub dedicated to lucid dreaming (don’t want to link from here).

And I believe such accounts because they don’t break any principles I am aware of and plus, I had a tiny ability to sometimes continue a dream right after I awoke from one. I used to do this commonly when I was a kid with I would say about 50% success rate. So it’s nothing impressive per se, but it always makes me think like this: any small ability can be developed into a larger ability. I always think that way. So if I could stitch two dream episodes with a tiny tiny waking break in between, why not be able to stitch two with a bigger break? And then why not 3 and more episodes? It seems like a logical progression. I haven’t actually done this, but when I read other people talk about it, I believe them because of what I just said.

My only other thought is that it may not be this fundamental ‘object tracking’/’worlding’ mentality that is stressful. Perhaps it is just that this world here that we maintain is stressful.

That too! :) Or maybe it’s just that. I don’t know. What you say certainly makes sense. The theory behind this would be that very happy people who have everything going for them should not need much sleep. I’m not sure that’s the case, but it doesn’t mean anything you say is wrong, because maybe there is something stressful about this world on a much deeper level than we’re aware of. So even a happy and content person may be stressing without realizing and thus still needs to sleep as much as anyone else. Maybe.

Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-10-19 13:05:02 (dokit9w)

(page 1)

Interesting, and this is exactly the practical question I’m seeking to work on in terms of how this process of developing these “super”-senses would work. I don’t think you would have to take all of the “loose” imagination and bind it up into the “super”-senses. Just take some ‘section’ of it and I guess practice assigning it new meaning. I guess that eventually a new sense/s that you can control with your volition would develop if you maintain this attitude.

I agree totally. Thing is, the specific transformation you’re discussing, which is creation of additional senses, is not an area I consider my strong point. I have some tangential understanding of it mostly based on principles, principles which I of course trust very much due to all kinds of other stuff I’ve been playing with and thinking about, but that’s about it. So, I’m looking forward to whatever you come up with. I think you speak the same language as me, so if you do figure out a way to build these senses I think you’ll have a way of explaining it that I could understand too. :) Which would be really cool to read about and to try to understand more about.

Precognition, psychometry, clairvoyance/remote viewing, etc. I’m not sure if intuition/’trusting your feelings’ fits into this category of abilities or not. I’m still trying to figure out what people mean by that.

My perspective is like this: I’ve read about such abilities existing in very superficial, almost casual-cursory accounts of them, but here’s what I haven’t seen: I haven’t seen a detailed account of such an experience. I haven’t seen a detailed account of a training regimen where one goes from not having such a sense to having it. I have never met anyone who can use psychometry (which is holding a small physical object in your hands and being able to tell from touch the stories and maybe experiences associated with that object).

And besides, I have met people with psychic abilities but I have learned one thing: almost all such people are terrible at explaining their own abilities. By terrible I mean near useless. Which tells me they are either hostile, which I don’t believe. Or it tells me they themselves are not sufficiently aware of how their own minds allow certain things. So their abilities were not developed in a conscious manner, and that’s why they cannot explain them.

So having someone with a psychic ability and the ability to explain the principles and experiences in it in detail as well as being able to explain a detailed and gradual training regimen (or two) that lead(s) to such or similar ability – that’s rarer than hen’s teeth and rabbit horns. And I’ve heard claims of such people but when I examine the stuff such people say in public I know they don’t know anything because they don’t have the right “tells” that someone who would know would give off. I am excellent at picking up “tells” like that precisely because I have some ability myself so I know how to spot another one like me.

So from my perspective we’re pretty much in virgin territory here with only self-reliance to rely on. Self-reliance is the thing anyway. Even if everyone knew all about it, self-reliance would still be supreme as a matter of principle anyway. Screw short-term convenience. So I am in favor of sharing some information, assuming you’re inclined to share something, but at the end of the day we have to rely on ourselves I think.

So as near as I can tell you are pretty much on your own with all this stuff.

The closest I have come to this kind of sense that you’re talking about is that I can use the kinesthetic area inside my body, specifically near the heart region around my chest area, to tell what’s going on. But this sense is extremely general and extremely abstract, and plus, I often override it magickally and cast spells against it. In other words, I never allow this sense to imprint me, as much as possible anyway. Of course I sometimes still get imprinted anyway, so I just do the best I can. So what I mean here is that let’s say I’ll get an intuition which I feel inside my chest about something bad happening, and this feeling sticks around persistently. That’s imprinting as I mean it. At that point instead of taking this feeling as gospel I cast against it and turn everything around. Thus I dispel the danger. :) So the bad thing that I somewhat precognize is not something that comes to pass.

And for me most of the time such precognitions, like I said, are abstract. Very abstract. Only very very very rarely will I get a pretty precise impression about something specific, and there is no way I can duplicate that at will. I’ll just spontaneously know without question that something is going to happen a specific way and it does. I cannot turn this on and off at will but I can sort of attract these happenings in a general sense, like I can set myself up in a way that will increase such occurrences from say once a year to once a month or something, and vice versa I can turn these down and make them more rare, but it’s not precise control.

So in general I do not play around with that stuff too much and any ability that develops in that area for me is kind of a byproduct of the other stuff I do and not something I take care to cultivate. Which probably explains why it’s so abstract and poorly controlled. It’s all rare and spontaneous stuff for the most part, at least when it comes to detailed precognitions.

This is extremely interesting. In my opinion, this topic is worthy of a post all its own. But I’m not sure I fully understand you. Presumably this “object tracking” cannot be just tracking an external reality, because I imagine that this “world-ing” stress holds as much for the unilateral solipsist who maintains the illusion of a stable world for apparent decades as it does for the physicalist or multilaterlist who maintains a similar stable world for apparent decades?

I don’t know? Maybe? I don’t think any two subjective idealists are the same. Just because someone practices using solipsistic commitments it doesn’t tell us anything about how they’ve internally structured their own mind. There is probably a subset of both uniliateralists and multilateralists that do not take on waking stress. It’s all theoretical for me. I don’t see any principle that mandates such stress. I just know for sure I get stressed out if I am waking for too long. I don’t know if I can blame some unbending principle for this. I think it’s probably more to do with the specifics of how I am involved in my mental habits and commitments and expectations.

Your suggestion would, on the surface, seem to be that eliminating the mode of waking and exclusively dreaming would be beneficial for one’s sense of happiness. But, by your own proposal, would this extensive indefinite fractured series of dream-narratives lack a coherent sense of personal identity as much as they lack a sense of world-identity? And why would that be desirable? Here I am focusing so much on transforming the waking mentality and you’re saying here, no no no waking mentality is fundamentally flawed in some sense.

I think both dreaming and waking lack something. Waking is stressful, but dreaming in my experience is not as consistent for epic stories. I think there is something better altogether. :) Something that isn’t like dreaming or waking, but has the best qualities of both? And that better mental modality could maybe support personal stories that span thousands of years instead of 120 years max (or so). The only thing I really want to suggest is that there is, I believe, some kind of untapped potential here in ourselves. I am 99.999% certain we can do better.

But there’s also reason in what you say. In my vision of a successful future, I am seeing myself developing near god-like powers of psychic awareness and psychic influence over the apparent world as well as immortality. But it’s true that in this vision I very well may still be sleeping and dreaming occassionally.

In my ideal world sleeping and dreaming is 100% voluntary. I like the ability to dream a disjointed dream or two. What I don’t like is being “kicked” into it, if you know what I mean.

Here I am focusing so much on transforming the waking mentality and you’re saying here, no no no waking mentality is fundamentally flawed in some sense.

Oh, no no… That’s not at all what I want to say. You’re reading way too much into my words. On the contrary. I think everything you said is very interesting and worthy, and I have relatively little personal experience with it, and I am looking forward to your discoveries in this or other areas, assuming of course you’re willing to talk about those (and if not, I honor that too).

What happened was this. After reading your post I got into a contemplative mood and I somewhat went on a tangent. The problem is that although I know it’s somewhat tangential but I thought it was worth saying because it’s not so easy to verbalize some of the things I said there, so instead of throwing it away, I just posted it as is. That’s all.

Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-10-19 13:04:54 (dokit1p)

I take this description to mean this state is involuntary. You can’t bring about this state at will? I bet you can.

In principle I could bring about anything whatsover. But in practice I have commitments to experience the world as something with a life of “its own” and so forth. The body is on the border between the visions that I own and those I disown right inside my own mind. So the body is less unruly than the world, but not as handy as the still-owned visionary innards of my mind.

So it’s good to realize that in an ultimate sense there is no limit, but in a practical sense there is a lot I cannot do by tomorrow morning and I have to make decisions in line with both my ultimate and near term potential.

Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-10-23 08:24:56 (doqm7bh)