~70%of Americans want a cease fire. Another nail in the democracy coffin. Same thing in Canada less the veto. Our governments are beating to a different drum that is not the voice of the people they supposedly represent.
America is owned by AIPAC it’s not a democracy.
In before the “Um AkShUaLlY iT’s A rEpUbLiC nOt A dEmOcRaCy” drones that know what neither a democracy or a Republic is.
Where are you getting this 70% number from? Did they do a national vote on the topic? Or maybe it’s just a pulling number you read somewhere and now parrot without source.
Hardly a nail in any coffin. This is exactly how representative democracy works. You vote for someone to represent you in the government. Those someone’s collaborate to the best of their ability to make policies and decisions. Don’t like their policies and decisions. Vote for someone else.
This has some interesting numbers. Says 61% want a permanent ceasefire. But after hearing arguments for and against, the number moved down to 52%.
Hardly a nail in any coffin
This is the important point. The “see your leaders didn’t do perfectly so you should ditch them” is usually followed by “for right-wingers whom you will not need to question because shut up”, and I am really worried when people so quickly give up “passable” solutions for horrible alternatives – and while our governments are effectively two-party systems, the cruel far-right alternatives are usually the only option.
I’d prefer direct voting.
Correction. 70% of people no doubt prefer, in a very abstract way, that Israelis and Palestinians weren’t killing each other. Because innocent civilians dying is bad. But 99% of people don’t “want” a ceasefire if it involves even the slightest amount of effort or concession or cost on their part, nor do they want to dive into the complexities of the Middle East. The quality of that “want” is very, very low. It is more of an abstract preference, really.
Where did you get that 90% figure. Not going to disagree though as it is likely correct but the reality is it is already costing Americans money to not have a ceasefire so unsure your point.
There are lots and lots of polls about Americans wanting a cease fire which range in % but all around 70%. +- 10.
Americans in general have next to no understanding of how aid and funding works, so any poll taken about providing aid or funding is inherently worthless.
People are stupid. That’s why they vote for shit like Trump, Brexit, and cutting military aid to allies.
Well…50% of the population is below average intelligence and they are easy to manipulate and thus are a force to recon.
Obviously I made up the 99% figure as a rhetorical device mirroring the earlier 70% figure as a way of inserting my opinion about the nature of the 70% figure.
“Can’t they all just…like…get along?”
And gentlemen never sail to weather?
That is the saying. Sailing to weather in a stiff breeze for any significant length of time is often unpleasant, unless one is racing. It’s hard on the boat, too. After a while, one learns to sail with the wind whenever possible rather than fight nature.
Complexity of the middle east is a lie to keep the genocide going.
That’s what you took from my comment?
It is my sincere hope that one day, the USA may gain Independence from Israel.
It’s impossible for a politician to win if they criticize Israel.
But why though? This is literally the only thing that the GOP and democrats agree on and it’s a totally dysfunctional level of allegiance to Israel above any other nation. It doesn’t make sense. Bibi is a total douche and they are clearly committing war crimes over there. Hamas sucks but should we really be standing shoulder to shoulder with Israel on this one?
Nationally, currently yes. But not completely. Granted they are trying to smear and attack every Democrat that has. But I think Talib and others. Are relatively safe at their local level.
Not supporting Israel goes against every profit incentive that the oil, military, and other megacorporations have. EU may not like to say it as openly, but they want this to continue too.
Human lives don’t matter in the face of capitalist profit after all.
🙄
Israel is the 51st state. Everything Israel does is done with US support because they’re part of the same settler-colonial project.
Gross
I feel like I’m in the twilight zone when people talk about this issue, like people watching all of this and still defending Israel are all living on another fucking planet. Some literally 1984 “war is peace/we’ve always been at war with East Asia” shit.
Remember all the countries that voted yes population and all these in the US and UK who don’t agree with theirs government feel the same.
This is clearly a small interest group that own the US government and UK government and their military and these two will do anything to support thir interests regardless of what people want. It is a dictatorship but instead of one ruler you have a few rich people and companies…
Actual question: why in the fuck can the US veto actions by the UN? Can other countries veto as well? Or is it only the US that can do that with the implied threat we’d swing our militaristic dick around or something?
EDIT: Thank y’all for replying and informing me and any other readers about why this is a thing. You guys are da real MVPs 👊
The US is a part of the security council, which gets automatic veto power.
Yes, the other countries are China, France, Russia and the UK. These are the Security Counsel states of the UN, seen by many as a peace-keeping organization.
Wikipedia notes that
They also happen to be the nuclear-weapon states (NWS) under the terms of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
Also on a completely unrelated note, here is the list of the top 5 arms dealers:
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Generated: 09 December 2023
@Poggervania
All the states in this council can do it. But when you’re a permanent member like US, it’s much easier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council?wprov=sfla1
@return2ozmaI want you to think about how, when you posted this, jou were swearing and upset about this thing you admittedly knew nothing about.
That’s your lizard brain swearing and reacting. Then your human brain took over and you asked good follow on questions.
Might is right. Money is power.
Equality is a myth and the rich never lost their control.
Lmao you clearly don’t understand how the UN works, they’re part of the committee they all get to vote for or against
You’re right - I don’t.
That’s why I asked instead :)
Russia has been vetoing peacekeeping forces in Novorossiya since 2014, for example. China has been vetoing investigations into Uyghur genocide too. Also this particular resolution is fucking stupid as is the whole Arab-world sponsored money laundering machine of Palestine rights council of the UN. People don’t understand that “supporting Palestine” is literally the same as supporting Vova, Xi, Kim, Assad and Khamenei since they’re all the same totalitarian terrorist axis.
You’re disgusting.
He’s literally correct and you just don’t know enough about the UN to understand that.
I feel like there should be a limit on how many times a country can exercise their veto rights, at least.
US has a long history of single-handedly bullying entire UN with their veto power.
US gas a long history of single-handedly bullying entire UN with their veto power.
Many of the US’s vetos would’ve been voted against by other countries and/or vetoed by France/UK if the US weren’t there. The US is a convient country to take the fall.
Would be a great bonus to unmask them all
Uh. No. The US is second only to Russia in vetoing the UNSC. Own it, don’t make excuses
I wish my crystal ball would predict what would have happened with the certainty of yours. What brand is yours?
Of course the US would
Of fricking course.
Come the fuck on. A UN resolution demanding a ceasefire is just symbolic anyway.
Not if it’s from the security council. Security council resolutions are legally binding, whereas GA resolutions are more like suggestions.
This would matter if UN resolutions actually did anything
For anyone else wondering “why did the US veto it?” rather than jumping to an emotional reaction, the article explains the US’s position:
U.S. deputy ambassador Robert Wood called the resolution “imbalanced” and criticized the council after the vote for its failure to condemn Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack on Israel in which the militants killed about 1,200 people, mostly civilians, or to acknowledge Israel’s right to defend itself. He declared that halting military action would allow Hamas to continue to rule Gaza and “only plant the seeds for the next war.”
“Hamas has no desire to see a durable peace, to see a two-state solution,” Wood said before the vote. “For that reason, while the United States strongly supports a durable peace, in which both Israelis and Palestinians can live in peace and security, we do not support calls for an immediate cease-fire.”
So some total bullshit.
the United States strongly supports a durable peace,
we do not support calls for an immediate cease-fire.”
Come the fuck on.
Hamas has no desire to see a durable peace, to see a two-state solution
Because Israel does? What a fucking joke. I’m so fucking embarrassed of this country and so fucking sick of being stuck in it.
Because Israel does? What a fucking joke.
It would be weird for them to offer so many two-state solutions if that’s not a thing they wanted.
Oh, look… the White Supremacism Fan Brigade has shown up to run interference for their favorite fascist regime in the middle-east.
Yawn.
Hmmm that’s funny considering that both Rabin and Arafat were assassinated because of the Oslo Accords.
I’ll translate for those that doesn’t speak US foreign policy-ese.
“We fully support our pet genocidal white supremacist settler-colonialist state in their genocidal ventures.”
Oh yeah that totally convinces me to justify the indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Gaza.
“We will not be supporting a call for a full cease fire as it would allow the democratically elected government currently in charge to continue to be in charge, potentially jeopardizing the future peace”
Putting aside the fact that I don’t think Hamas would win an election today (if they’d allow one), how is Israel not just as likely to break this “durable peace”.
Calling for an end to violence on an immediate basis and being upset when your own government is again going against the will of it’s citizens, choosing to back a military that’s vastly superior to their enemies and barely even whispering a comment on the brutality they’re committing on the civilian population of their adversary, isn’t jumping to an emotional reaction because we all already figured that was the reason anyway
We will not be supporting a call for a full cease fire as it would allow the democratically elected government currently in charge to continue to be in charge
Putting aside the fact that I don’t think Hamas would win an election today (if they’d allow one)
You really wrote this out and thought it made sense.
In the same way Zeleneskyy isn’t going to hold elections at this time, I doubt Hamas would either, although I think the sentiment between the leader and their citizens are completely different between the two.
There can be nuance here, I don’t LIKE that they were democratically elected and definitely took a greater grip than granted by that election, but this is the 57th time we’ve decided to assist in the deposition of a foreign power and government that, although I think are commitering terrible atrocities, only became so popular and so radicalized due to the mistreatment of their population by the Israeli government assisted by the financial and militaristic aid already given to them by the United States.
People elect dictators all the time for all kinds of reasons, this one just happens to be deeply entrenched in our geopolitical expansion and security game and the harm inflicted on the citizens of palestine is partially our government’s fault and they and so many of us refuse to acknowledge that.
Hamas seized power because he PA was trying to form a secular state, as part of a two-state solution. Upon seizing power, they immediately canceled elections forever. Then, they stole aid money from their own people, blocked the UNRWA from distributing further aid (and did so again during this conflict) and forced them to teach genocide against Jews in schools. This is all in addition to torturing and murdering any Palestinian dissidents who oppose Hamas.
Shit, during this very conflict, Hamas literally shot people fleeing south, because maximizing civilian casualties is a stated goal of theirs.
There is nothing redeeming about Hamas.
I dont disagree with the statement that there’s nothing redeeming about them. I agree they are a bad organization that is ALSO causing harms to the citizens of Palestine.
All I’m asking you to agree to is that the people of Palestine would benefit from a cease fire, if only to reduce the total number of civilian deaths. They cause civilian death, and so does Israel, but as long as the conflict is hot and active, that death and suffering is at it’s zenith.
All I’m asking you to agree to is that the people of Palestine would benefit from a cease fire, if only to reduce the total number of civilian deaths. They cause civilian death, and so does Israel, but as long as the conflict is hot and active, that death and suffering is at it’s zenith.
A) this has nothing to do with Hamas
B) my opinion will not influence this situation at all
There is nothing redeeming about Hamas.
You mean… apart from the fact that they are at war with a genocidal white supremacist settler-colonialist state?
Did it include releasing hostages?
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How about if Israel treats Palestinians with dignity? That would make Hamas disappear just the same, just without the dead bodies of seven thousand children.
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Yeah, me, a random person on the internet can Google research about deradicalization and realize that what Israel is doing is going to backfire within the next decade.
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And how does Israel plan to avoid the hydra effect?
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So it has no plans to avoid the Hydra effect.
Btw a ceasefire now means 2.3 million people will not starve to death.
The only way for Hamas to be eradicated at this point is complete genocide and total annexation. You can’t kill a someone’s entire family and not expect them to take up arms against you.
Maybe they should try demanding the full unconditional surrender of Hamas and the release of all hostages first…
Don’t you think the lives of 2.3 million starving people is more pressing now than that? A ceasefire would also allow hostages out.
As for Hamas surrendering, it won’t matter. I think Bibi is delusional and just wants this for power-tripping. Hamas will never really even be able to surrender simply because they are born from the oppression that Israel pours on Palestinians, and as long as Israel maims and kills and buries full families under their own homes, Hamas by that name or any other will ALWAYS emerge within a year.
Even with handling an extremist group, Israel poured fuel on the fire and is pouring some more. Everyone knows this, everyone is appalled and shocked at how fucking dumb Israel is being right now.
The “unconditional surrender of Hamas” is Bibi’s kinky fantasy. It means nothing in the practical sense.
But yes good luck getting people who were killed and tortured and kept in poverty by Israel to surrender…
You would never expect Israel to surrender to a more powerful enemy.
You’re not exactly up to date on current events. There was a weeklong ceasefire that ended a few days ago, hamas violated it by launching rockets at israeli cities and refusing to release more hostages.
Specifically refusing to release captured women…
Hmm, funny, because I’m pretty sure they killed two people and shot many others trying to return to their homes in the North during the ceasefire
Several have been injured and taken back to hospitals in the south of the territory, reported Al Jazeera’s Tareq Abu Azzoum, from Khan Younis in southern Gaza.
Two were shot and killed by Israeli troops and another 11 were wounded in the legs. An AP journalist reported seeing two bodies and the wounded as they arrived at a hospital.
Well, Israel isn’t going into some random village to rape torture and mutilate women, children, and babies. Israel also treats prisoners with dignity and don’t just forgets where they put them, starve them, and neglect to give them needed medicine. Israel also doesn’t just fire randomly into heavily populated areas for the sole purpose of killing as many civilians as possible. So there’s that.
The devil is in the details that you choose to ignore.
Well, Israel isn’t going into some random village to rape torture and mutilate women, children, and babies.
No, it’s just going into a open air prison of its own creation where it has willfully starved the population to make sure all those doctors, journalists, and civilians are completely killed in their homes, in ambulances, in the market, while sheltering, or while grieving.
What Hamas did was disgusting, but honestly after everything Israel has done, October 7th doesn’t stand anything in comparison. Israel has done October 7th to the Palestinians twenty times over.
F U C K I S R A E L
The devil is in the details that you choose to ignore
How are you ignoring the pain of 2.3 million people? That’s more people than you could even imagine in your head…
This “open air prison” is the making of Hamas.
When a group of people elect an organization whose main agenda is to anihilate its neighboring country, you don’t just stand there and do nothing. You prevent them from gaining weapons and ammunition. The only way to do this is to control their borders.
And behold, they did exactly what they said they would on 7/10. The only surprise is that they succeeded.
Now some facts - Israeli Arabs, you know, the peaceful ones, have full right and full access to anything they want. That includes being in the Israeli army, with access to weapons and ammo. Big weapons, lots of ammo. They’re also elected to Israeli government, just a year ago a Muslim party was in government. Why are they trusted to all this while the Palestinians aren’t? Simple, they’re not trying to murder people.
Something tells me you’ve never been in any real danger that you think problems like this get solved by doing nothing, and playing nice.
This “open air prison” is the making of Hamas.
That’s a lie. Don’t start your damn comments with a damn lie.
Funny how you can’t seem to find a counter argument to anything I said except LIES!!!1111
It’s a false statement with nothing to back it up with, hence a lie.
“some minority people did crime” (and get punished for it). Settlers do not represent Israel, nor do they represent the army. Apples to oranges.
Did you fail to read the part where sometimes the IDF joins in with the settlers? They almost never get punished for it, or it’s just a slap on the wrist because the Palestinians have no rights in Israel’s court system. Settlers are exactly what Israel is, a country founded on the worst white-supremacist imperialist, theocratic, ethno-colonialism.
Are you a genocide apologist just for fun or are you just evil?
I will not step down to your level.
The IDF had never raped or mutilated women and children. Show proof or STFU.
That’s not an excuse to kill innocent people. Especially children. Would it be okay to carpet bomb and kill innocents in tel aviv if hamas was there?
The irony is staggering. That’s exactly what Hamas is trying to do, and would succeed if it weren’t for the iron dome system.
Hamas wouldn’t exist if the Palestinians weren’t treated like animals and had their land taken, their women raped, and children blown to smithereens.
I think UN was being antisemitic, so they had to
/s looks like this is needed here
