Alternatively, all of nature can be explained by mathematics, rather then being based on it.
Yeah I was gonna say, mathematics is the human interpretation of naturally occurring proportions
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One, Mathematics is the language of nature. Two, Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. Three: If you graph the numbers of any system, patterns emerge. Therefore, there are patterns everywhere in nature.
Edit: it’s a quote from this excellent movie, pi: https://youtu.be/yRjkQT9xLZs
Eh, no. Mathematics is an hallucination of ours we are trying to desperately map onto reality. I say this as a mathematician. When you look out into our reality, you know what we see? A curved universe. There is nothing in our reality that is truely STRAIGHT.
YET, we creatures came up with such an unnatural thing as a straight line. Straight lines are a uniquely human hallucination. Its the logic we use to make sense of the world, but its a Rorschach test of our own making. You are attaching meaning to it because thats what our brains do. generate meaning out of chaos.
I need to look no further than pi, which is a number that represents our feeble attempts to push the round universe into our square heads. Its trying to represent the curved universe as a straight line (and visavers) - and reality said : LOL, NOPE!! YOU get a number that is more illusive than the irrationals. A never ending non patterned number.
All of nature is not based on mathematics. Mathematics is the language we use to describe nature. Thats like saying the Grand Canyon is BASED on book describing the Grand Canyon.
1.) No its not. Its our language, not nature’s.
2.) To a degree, yes. But thats because our brains are pattern seeking and pattern generating machines - not because nature follows a system WE made up.
3.) Did I mention Pi yet
Here
https://i.imgur.com/a5ueCi5.jpg
THIS is a graph of a discovery that I made in number theory. Does it look like it has a pattern to you? I think this is the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen, because IT MAKES NO SENSE. which means, we still have a lot to discover and learn
draws a straight line
“Fuck you, God”
I ❤️ this so much. Thank you 😁
Such a fascinating read, definitely changed my perception about mathematics and the world, I’m probably going to remember your view about the world time by time in the future. What makes your comment all the more interesting is that what I wrote was a quote from the movie “pi” which is about a mathematician. You’ve probably watched it but if you haven’t I really think you should check it out.
This could be a new modifiable copypasta
Such a fascinating read, definitely changed my perception about copypastas and the Fediverse. I’m probably going to remember your view about copypastas time by time in the future. What makes your comment all the more interesting is that what I wrote was a comment from the post which is about a maths. You’ve probably seen it but if you haven’t I really think you should check it out.
Perfect, thank you
Oh yeah I saw it. Weird movie. 94143243431512659321054872390486828512913474876027671959234602385829583047250165232525929692572765 53643634627271840120126431475463294501278472648410756223478962672859285829534750277226264645621761 3984829519475412398501 😁
You gave me only half of the answer where is the other half? :D
Hey Quazar,
Great point and post. Any math + philosophy reddits you know of on Lemme?
reddits on Lemmy
Its going to be hard changing our vernacular
and no. If you know of any, lemme know
Yeah… I thought about it… and couldn’t be bothered to figure it out. Keep me posted though Quazar - maybe we can get one started.
Gimme dem philosophy subs!
“Eh, no”. There are tons of actual patterns in mathematics, we didn’t invent the “laws of physics” we just slapped a framework on top for better understanding. Math isn’t a human invention, it’s our interpretation of how things work, and at the base of it all there are laws that govern “how things work” (even if we haven’t fully discovered all of them), it isn’t just randomness that we’re trying to apply patterns to.
Using your example of pi, calling it “chaos” is disingenuous, because it’s a single constant that has a massive number of applications. That’s not random or chaotic at all.
mathematics is a human language/system.
nature just follows the laws and quirks this universe has. the plants, animals and subatomic particles will keep doing the same, regardless if we have a tool or theory that can describe what they’re doing.
sure, there are patterns everywhere in nature, but i would not go as far as to say that that makes mathematics a language of nature.
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned that this a quote from the movie Pi.
Here’s a link to the trailer. It has the quote in it. https://youtu.be/r0SC582sJvE
My bad, had to mention it was a quote, I kinda wanted people to search and discover that gem of a movie for themselves
That’s a pretty niche movie. I agree it’s great but most people will only know it’s a quote if you tell them.
Yeah totally agree, I edited my comment to make it more clear.
Bro how you go and link a way better trailer. You made me realize that I missed a really cool opportunity for one my favorite movies :(
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I would say there is no language of nature; there are things that happen, and we can approximate what happens using math. Math can be used to describe basically anything, so the fact that we can understand these things through numbers is not extraordinary.
I would say all language are natural. Even mathematics.
I guess I don’t know what you mean by that. My point was that nature doesn’t speak in any language. There are things that happen do to processes and conditions, we can describe those processes and conditions, we can use them to predict future conditions with math. But the base reality is that things simply exist.
I meant that existence is nature. Following from that, anything which exists is nature or natural.
Esperanto, Volapük and Elvish beg to differ 😛
Art and humour are inevitable consequences of sentient animals having the capability to create them.
I think of it like squares and rectangles. Everything created by humans is natural, but only a fraction of natural things are created by humans.
There is a natural progression from some particles colliding at the beginning of the universe all the way to low effort memes being posted on Lemmy.
You’re operating with a RIDICULOUSLY overbroad definition of “natural” that includes pretty much everything artificial 🤦
Is it not natural for humans to create artificial tools?
Then why I, as part of nature, is dumb as shit in math? Checkmate matheists
I’d say this is a matter of philosophical preference. Everything you described can be explained as human perception using numbers and math to interpret reality. This doesn’t mean that math somehow is the substructure underneath everything that is.
HOWEVER: The more I learn about computer science and information theory, the more I look at everything being built from bits - elementary particles can be looked at the same as a capacitor in a ram stick holding a TRUE or FALSE state, abstractly.
Still, I understand and can advocate for the idea that math isn’t necessarily some magic code underlying everything, even if that sounds convincing. Call it an exercise in holding two opposing ideas in one’s mind at the same time.
I see both ideas as being viable.
Mathematics is the language of our monkey brains. It’s an attempt to describe nature.
Literally everything ever has patterns that emerge as soon as you start looking for them. Math is only the “language of nature” in that the entire idea behind mathematics is that is must be consistent, otherwise it’s just useless.
Basically, math deroved from the universe (specifically our study of it), and not the other way around.
so, does it mean that the math is a way of decoding the simulation
So, what about the stock market? The universe of numbers that represents the global economy. Millions of hands at work, billions of minds.
Great movie.
Economics is not math, its a religion.
The guy I’m replying to and i are quoting a movie about a troubled mathematician searching for a pattern in the stock market.
That aside, I disagree with your assertion that economics is a religion. I agree it’s not math though. It uses math to form models for predictive/descriptive purposes, as do a lot of disciplines.
Like the golden ratio and whatnot
The golden ratio is a transcendental number, but it is the “least transcendental” of the transcendental numbers.
Is this a π reference? awesome movie
yes it is, no idea why I’m getting down voted so heavily haha
Three tress just sitting there in someone’s yard
HOLY SHIT, Look at that, there’s exactly three trees, its like it’s reality is based on math or something :O
Incorrect, of course the universal language we use to describe nature is everywhere in nature.
This reminds me of a comment, I read a long time ago.
It was something like this: “I played The Sims, and everything was business as usual, my Sims went to University, and got a degree in Computer Science until they proved they live in a simulation. I stopped playing Sims for that night.”
Also explains why the world is so fucked up and how fascism can take. Also explains why there so many assholes in the world. Most people at some point play evil when they played Sims. Weather it was the simple version and you cause tornadoes to tear through your city. Our the more modern versions. I seen clips were players would lock a character in a doorless room. Or take away the ladder in the pool and the character would drown.
There other examples but it maybe why Trump is so popular in America and why so many people that actually want the world to burn and enjoy fucking up the environment.
Some things I think about occasionally. So should you.
Nah I don’t think so. What people do in a simulation can approximate what they’d do in real life with no consequences but in real life there are always consequences. And most people need to see themselves as the hero in their own story so they won’t do things that they perceive as evil.
It seems to me that most individual people think they are right in whatever they’re doing. Including voting for Trump, being hateful, etc.
Well, if we are in a simulation, there is very likely an admin ;)
You have been permabanned from UNIVERSE v.0.9.5 for Harrassment.
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Dang that form is amazing
Best form there is!
My favorite form
Our “universe” simultaneously is and is not a simulation because reality is relative to the seer. It’s a fun thing to think about but pointless due to our limited understanding on what would make one universe ‘real’ and another a ‘simulation’, since really they’re one and the same, just at different scales. It is interesting to think about though whether or not our universe has a parent universe which it exists inside of. And if so how deep that nesting goes. If our universe isn’t contained inside something else, does that mean our universe simply is everything? No way to really know.
Right. By whatever logic we deduce that our universe is simulated, it would be just as likely that our simulators are also simulated. And from there you get simulations on to infinity and a simulation becomes as real as reality gets.
Thank you you actually understand
Another line of the nihilist cosmic tiger
I like that phrase. Thanks
i had an idea for a skit where, we exit the simulation and can “meet god”, our simulation runners - and when I hear all about who they are and what they do, I’d ask them: “So, who created you?” and they’d all laugh and say “we don’t know”
I sometimes like to think that, for another being, the earth is the size of an atom, and that humans are kind of like bacteria
I like to think our universe is just a snow globe on some alien kid’s shelf.
Sometimes I like to think that for some being, the earth is the size of a cell, and we humans are like bacteria trying to keep it alive and we are part of something insanely massive, at least massive to us.
to quote XKCD, a rock is an analog computer that generates a rock
Someone building the simulation was like “yeah, let’s simulate diarrhea and make people have it just for funsies”.
The Sims new dlc
-boner code is buggy and triggers for no reason sometimes
-whatever ship it
Well of course does the universal language we developed describe things universally
But… We invented mathematics in order to understand nature
All hail the grand backend dev
This fits well with c/distressingmemes
“The world is binary. You’re either a 1 or a 0. Alive or dead.” - Gary Winston
The kid looks like Ezra Miller. Maybe that’s why he’s so fucked up.
Oh no they are going to shut us down if we figure it out
The thing about physics and maths is that we invent new maths to describe new physics. It happens all the time.
