Hydrogen startups are on pace to raise more VC funding in 2023 than in the prior two years combined, according to PitchBook’s 2024 Industrial Technology Outlook.
Because it’s still just fossil fuels with an extra step in the middle. Electrolysis doesn’t generate more hydrogen energy than input, so water is still a net loss source. So you’re still getting it from drilling. So not really solving the actual problem at all. And by the time you do figure out an energy positive source that isn’t destructive, battery density will make it irrelevant anyways.
“94 million tonnes of grey hydrogen are produced globally using fossil fuels as of 2022, primarily natural gas, and are therefore a significant source of greenhouse gas emissions.”
Hydrogen has always been a scam put forth by the oil companies. It’s pretending to be green and revolutionary while being the exact same thing as before.
That’s just gaslighting by the BEV fanatics. In reality, hydrogen and its derivatives are the only way of powering the majority of transportation. Everything else you hear is total bullshit.
I have an EV that I charge in my garage. You will never get me back in a car where I have to go fill it somewhere. It doesn’t matter how good the tech is, the personal convenience of hydrogen is less than BEV, which is all anyone actually cares about.
So you will never charge at a public station ever again? You will never travel long distances for the rest of your life?
Seriously, fuck off with this obvious lie. In reality, this is a made-up argument by BEV arguments. Of course you will charge publicly at some point in the future. And since driving happens far away from your house most of the time, it is the more convenient solution. Not to mention people who don’t have a garage to begin with.
Fuck off with the obvious nit picking. You got me. I use super chargers like 1% of the time. I’ll definitely switch to less convenient hydrogen when it comes out thanks to your amazing ability to argue the least relevant bit of my point. Why wouldn’t I want to stand out in the freezing cold a few times a week filling my car with highly explosive gas instead of plugging it in like my phone at home?
Then you admit you can tolerate public charging. So you have no argument to make.
And here’s the more shocking fact: Home refueling is possible. In fact, it has always been possible. Things like lawnmowers or leafblowers have traditionally been refueled at home. You always could have some kind of fuel delivery service. But it never took off. Why? Because the gas station was the better idea and everyone agreed with it.
Same is true with hydrogen. In fact, you can envision some kind of home electrolysis system and such concepts exist too. But very few people wanted it. Proving that this need is a fictional one. No one wanted it until BEV fanatic suddenly decided that they wanted it.
Do you think this is high school debate club? I can do all this complicated shit that nobody in reality will actually do and that proves you right? Nobody is going to choose hydrogen over BEV, nobody is going to build out a hydrogen distribution network because BEV will bankrupt any company that tries and nobody is going to install some stupid hydrogen generating crap when they can more efficiently put that energy directly into a battery. It doesn’t matter how clean or better you think hydrogen is, IT’S NOT AS CONVENIENT!
You’re too deep in your BEV fanaticism then. Of course millions of people will choose hydrogen over BEVs. Simply because they have no choice. In the long run, this is going to be the solution nearly everyone adopts. It is basically a one-to-one replacement for conventional cars.
As an EV owner, I would actually love to get a hydrogen car, home charging is just not as convenient especially for someone like me who travels long every day and unless you are in the main city, quick refills will always be better. Have an ioniq 5, the EV depreciation also pretty much sucks.
That being said EVs have come a long way, great improvements over the years and they continue to improve, charging is not the only issue, battery weight (I can literraly feel how heavy ioniq 5 is while driving compared to my old gas car), depreciation, degradation and etc.
FCEVs are basically BEVs, but without the giant battery weighing it down. It should be pretty obvious that FCEVs are a good idea to any BEV fan. Sadly, too many of them have drank the kool-aid and are opposed to further innovation beyond their own car.
But fuel cells still rely on raw materials and I imagine they are more energy intensive to produce and more expensive as a technology to develop and produce than the already established ICE technology which has been around for decades.
This is why I am personally rooting for hydrogen on ICE to be honest - besides the unmatched emotion an ICE can give you obviously haha.
A fuel cell is staggeringly small compared to the alternative. For instance, the fuel cell stack in the Mirai only weighs around 50kg. As a result, this is likely to be the cheapest and least resource intensive powertrain in the long-run.
ICE will have advantages in terms of design maturity and a having century of optimization. It will probably always be more desirable in sports cars. But eventually, even ICE cars will probably lose to FCEVs.
Please do share facts…
You need something that can fully replace fossil fuels. This includes all core factors, such as maximum range, refueling times, and yes, even energy density. After all, it makes no sense to replace fossil fuels with something inferior. As a result, any basic analysis will lead you to some kind of fuel derived from hydrogen. Nothing else we have can meet all of the necessary criteria. As a result, it pretty much has to be hydrogen or something derived from it.
PS: Biofuels don’t count, because there is no way to scale up production to the needed levels.
But why not use localised fusion power, or orbital solar power if we’re talking non-realised solutions?
Hydrogen is highly hyped by the oil industry to be their new product line after peak oil, but it doesn’t solve most of the major issues of fossil fuels, introduces more problems that we haven’t yet solved, and the industry hasn’t yet developed feasible ways to utilise hydrogen that actually lowers fossil fuel consumption.
It’s a cool idea, less proven than most.
As I said, this is all gaslighting. Green hydrogen is already a developed technology. We’ve already know how to make it. The anti-hydrogen rhetoric is just bullshit. If anything, the critics are working for the oil industry, since they are repeat arguments nearly identical to what the fossil fuel industry said about wind, solar, electrification, etc.
Without data, you’re the one attempting to gaslight. Please provide sources, or wait until we meet in a hydrogen car to be smug.
Without proof to back up your claims, you’re indistinguishable from someone misunderstanding facts, or even someone lying. With sources, you become trustworthy, seems like well worth the effort to provide them.
I see hydrogen cars drive by nearly every day. It’s you who is totally out of touch with reality. Next you’ll be telling me smartphones are impossible, or that OLED TVs will never happen. Or whatever “it’s impossible” bullshit for something that already exists.
Um, those are facts. That quote was pulled directly from Wikipedia. It’s got numerous sources if you’d like those too. It also lists the tiny percent derived from electrolysis too. So what part of “most hydrogen is a byproduct of fossil fuels and doesn’t remove our dependence on them or the climate destruction they caused” was gaslighting? Because again, those are just facts.
Which was written by BEV fanatics. Still gaslighting. Sources are also just bullshit from BEV fanatics. None of it is real. It’s just all made-up crap. Even the grid will be partially powered by hydrogen due to the need for long-duration energy storage. So even BEVs will need hydrogen to reach zero emissions. That’s just how ludicrous the corporate propaganda has gotten. It literally denies its own basis for existence, because the BEV industry simply cannot let hydrogen take off on any level. They know, deep down, that it is the primary disruptive threat to the BEV, and it will kill off the BEV if it ever gained marketshare.
Because generation is only one of the many issues with hydrogen.
There still the issues with storage since hydrogen is highly reactive and tends to break down materials making them brittle as heck. That’s still not solved.
Combine the fact that storage is a problem that hydrogen is very volatile, able to ignite with only a 4% ratio and very easy to set off.
Hydrogen requires it to be compressed to be stored and it’s cold as heck making transport a pain requiring new pipelines to be created and again combine that with the hydrogen being reactive and volatile.
Refueling, it’s cold, very cold and that’s another problem when you have a reactive, volatile compress gas and most materials don’t exactly like constant extreme temperature changes.
Hydrogen still has a lot of problems and generation is still just the top of the iceberg.
The “issues” you list is something companies like Toyota has already dealt with and even if it’s small, there is still a growing hydrogen infrastructure in some places in the world like california with people driving these cars.
Yes they are challenging, but we have already overcome and have vehicles and infrastructure in production.
I see many hydrogen critics list how hydrogen is “very volatile, able to ignite, cold as heck, extreme temperature” and etc, well yes, there are challenges, but despite that there are companies out there that have dealt with them and already have products running on the same hydrogen you are talking about.
Not trying to blindly support hydrogen or anything, but in my opinion we are past the point where we debate and claim hydrogen is not possible and has many issues - many of them are no longer an “issue” when its already out there for consumers in some parts of the world, and if these issues were a huge barrier, we won’t have vehicles like Toyota mirai selling at all, so these issues are not issues but maybe “tricky”, “expensive” and “slow development” would be the right words.
I’ll grant you that storage has gotten better since the decade now when I last worked on a hydrogen ICE project and yeah Toyota has made some good advances with their carbon fiber tanks now, heck of a lot better than the carbon fiber tanks that I had the pleasure of working with.
Last I read, the temperature changes were still issues with refilling station where they tended to ice up and with fatigue on the point of connection to the inlet due to temperature changes. If that’s been fixed or a solution has been found that’s great.
I think the biggest hurdles is still the transport, generation, and infrastructure and yeah, I can agree that tricky, expensive, slow development are all valid here.
And while I still don’t think the tech is there yet, I’m glad that progress is still being made and hopefully it’ll actually be viable in the future.
Now list the problems of the alternatives…
In reality, hydrogen is far simpler and more straightforward than any alternative we have right now. Most of the supposed problems have long been solved or never were serious issues. By now, it is entirely a matter of properly funding and scaling up the infrastructure. Nothing else really holds back hydrogen. The naysayers are simply motivated by ulterior motives, such as personal financial gain, to deny this basic fact.
Oh, my bad. I completely misunderstood the fact you wanted copium and not actual discourse over the viability hydrogen.
And you want something that is basically climate change denial. You can either admit that there is a solution to our problems, or dwell in either doomerism or denialism.
Yup, not a single bit of a grown up discussion to be had here. You are a terrible cheerleader for hydrogen and make no salient points on hydrogen being a good future technology, which I happen to have hope for.
Just nothing but whataboutisms and insults, nothing intellectual coming from you at all.
There’s no patience for people who totally deny reality. The first step is for guys like you to admit that there is even a possibility that you got it wrong. Otherwise, there’s no point for this conversation.
Done.
