I’m personally a huge fan of Lord of Chaos. It’s always a high point when I re-read the series. I really like all of the subtle foreshadowing of what’s coming up, all of the careful politics and groundwork that RJ laid for the latter half of the series, and then of course Dumai’s Wells is such an incredible moment in the series.
@Landrin201 Ultimately, I have to say A Memory of Light is my favorite. Followed closely by Lord of Chaos.
A Memory of Light was just the final payoff of the whole series, and a story that had been with me for nearly 20 years. While I’ve only read this one twice, it definitely had the biggest emotional impact.
Lord of Chaos just had so much happen in it, it’s really easy to see why it’s a common fan favorite.
I’m gonna let you finish, but Mat Cauthon at Cairhein had the best arc of the series.
Lord of Chaos is truly one of the most incredible books in the series. It’s the most concentrated amount of the best of what the Wheel of Time is in a single book. I do remember it being a little bit difficult to get through for me though, and honestly I usually prefer Crown of Swords and Path of Daggers in the grander scheme of things (if we leave Dumai’s Wells aside for a moment) because they hold a lot of the payoff from LoC, they have a ton of momentum. But yeah.
He’s my top five:
- The Gathering Storm
- Path of Daggers
- Lord of Chaos
- The Shadow Rising
- The Great Hunt
Although this changes pretty often 😅
I think I like Fires of Heaven. Books 4-6 are definitely all in the running.
I think I’m camp TGH/TDR, personally. Not sure why, but there’s something about the innocence of those novels that make them stand out on each reread.
Moiraine sent me.
People think I’m insane for this, but I usually recommend new readers start on TDR rather than EOTW. It’s where I started- way back in middle school my mom and I would listen to audiobooks in the car, and she picked TDR up for us not realizing it was part of a series. We didn’t really notice that it was book 3; it picks up in a really solid place, summarizes everything that happened before, and introduces everyone pretty well.
My big reason for it is that, IMO, book 3 has a big tone shift and a lot of character changes from book 2. For example, Perrin’s whole arc in book 2 is about accepting leadership and accepting the wolves at the same time, and by the end he has pretty well accepted the wolves- he has spent a lot of time communicating with them, and has been open with another person about his ability. Then, in book 3, suddenly he hates the wolves, and wants nothing to do with them. I know why that happened (IMO because Jordan was setting up longer-term plotlines after fully committing to more than 3 books) but it’s still noticeable.
I think starting at book 3 gets a new reader in with the characters as they will be written for the rest of the series, and gets them into the writing style Jordan uses in the other books. Then, go back and read 1 and 2, and you’ll have the characters as established in 3 in your head the whole time- so Mat suddenly becoming a compulsive gambler makes more sense, and Perrin’s later reluctance with the wolves makes you want to read him as reluctant about it in all of book 2.
I think that’s fair… kinda. I do think readers miss out on a ton of context in TGH. And the problem with skipping tEotW is that what impact you’d get from it is just gone.
From talking with LOTS of readers, I’ve always gotten the impression that EOTW didn’t have much impact on most readers once they finish the series. EOTW is kinda just… there. Like, it’s fine- it’s a fun story, but it reads so differently from the rest of the series that it feels like a different book sometimes, and the events in it have practically no impact past TGH. TGH is where the longer-term plotlines really get established, but there are still some inconsistencies with the magic system because he hadn’t 100% ironed out all the details. Book one has by far the most inconsistencies with how magic works in the world, and it can be a bit confusing for new readers once they get to book 2 and everyone feels less powerful than they did in book 1.
I’ve always been of the opinion that, looking at the series as a whole, EOTW was the weakest of the series, and not really where I feel it starts to feel like the wheel of time- that was always TDR for me.
I’m actually considering writing up a real long post about an argument a friend of mine and I have been having for several months about what we would do to re-edit the series in hindsight if we were writing, say, a TV show adaptation, because I have a lot of thoughts about the structure of the first 3 books in hindsight and how they could have been VASTLY improved
EotW is a middling book (I used to call it the weakest, but it’s hard to compare with some of the 8-10 range)
What it does have is the best a-ha moments that can be squeezed into a single book. And almost all of those are spoiled by page 50 of TGH.
Honestly, I think the only thing that really needs to die to make tEotW okay is the Eye itself… along with Moiraine’s silly reasoning to swap the trip to there. Being forced there more directly (the knife being taken, for example, or some mysterious message for the Amyrlin to avoid Tar Valon) would’ve cleaned it up.
I personally think that EOTW needed a bit more than that (spoilers all books):
::: spoiler
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I would have made Moiraine’s plan from minute one be to find the Dragon and take him to the Eye of the World. I would have a viewpoint from her perspective when they get out of the two rivers, and have her talk with Lan about why- and use that as a way to talk about the prophesies and how she needs a way to determine which of the three is the Dragon, and how the Eye of the World would be the easiest way to do that unless more than one of them can channel.
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I’d make it more of an Ensemble piece to preserve the mystery of “who is the dragon” and also to have more development for the other characters. If you tweaked Mat and Perrin’s backstories you could have all 3 boys clearly originate outside of the two rivers, further preserving the mystery of who the dragon is. I would cut the scene of Rand bring Tam to Emmond’s Field completley- I wouldn’t even have it happen off screen, it would just not be there. Rand already gets multiple identity crises throughout the series- this one is comparatively short lived. It works just as well if he is told by Moiraine at the Eye that he is the Dragon and Tam cannot be his father. I’d have Tam go to Caemlyn with Perrin in book 6, and have him and Rand talk- and have that conversation end with Rand angry with Tam, and confused, and not sure where to go from there. That better sets up the next conversation they would have in book 12, where Rand nearly kills him.
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I’d completely re-work the eye of the world scenes to damn near what the show did. I would cut the battle of Tarwhin’s Gap altogether, it isn’t necessary and never has impact again. Have the confrontation at the Eye be between Rand and Ishamael in the world of dreams, and have it reflect the central conflict of the end of the series, the way the show did. The other characters can fight Aginor and Balthamel while Rand is unconscious talking to Ishy or something.
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I would have Moiraine actively teach Egwene and Nynaeve to channel as much as she can in their travels. She teaches Egwene the bare basics, just so she won’t develop a block, but I would have her go much deeper than that. Especially with Nynaeve, I would have her teach her constantly as they search for Perrin and Egwene. That way they don’t feel like they go from barely knowing what channeling is to being surprisingly proficient at it early in book 2. If Moiraine begins the Forcing process by really pushing them to channel as much as possible, that becomes a lot more organic. :::
I guess we see the Eye differently. I really liked the “who the hell am I?” side of Rand, isntead of “Who is the Dragon” ensemble. I think it was slightly too obvious, but obscure enough that new readers often had memories of when they “figured it out”. I actually liked the idea of the Dragon being a mysterious hero/villain that could as well have been an antogonist as the main character.
And I really love the doubt and distrust we all have in Moiraine for the first several books. A POV opening of her would have ruined it, I think.
I’m all-in with you for point 3. Power levels are all over the place, and while I don’t think Eye is the biggest offender, it doesn’t hurt to take out the canon-killing overchannel by Rand. And Somestha (Somestha who?)
For point 4… I agree with more teaching of Eggy, but Nynaeve will be damned if she lets THAT AES SEDAI teach her anything. But you’re not wrong about wondergirl-mania. They get good way too fast, but that’s a steady issue the first 5 books or so (and doesn’t stop there).
And I really love the doubt and distrust we all have in Moiraine for the first several books. A POV opening of her would have ruined it, I think.
To be clear this isn’t what I meant to say- I would keep the smash cut from Dragonmount being created to Rand and Tam on the road to EF. That’s actually my favorite part of EOTW, it’s a GREAT intro to the world. If the rest of the book were consistent with the rest of the series, I’d never recommend new readers not read it first- but it’s those big inconsistencies that make me think it’s better read after TDR.
I would put the first Moiraine viewpoint AFTER they get out of EF with her. Like, you know that scene where Egwene first channels with her? Right around there is where I would giver her a short viewpoint, just to let the audience get some of the exposition they’re really craving by then about the power, the dragon, and Moiraines actual plan. One of the most frustrating parts in book 1 for me is that she doesn’t want to admit too much to the Emmonds Fielders, but it gets really annoying because it felt, to me, like she was just making decisions to move the plot along and not because of any plan of hers. Having a chapter where she actually spells out what she is planning to do to the reader would make a lot of sense, at least to me.
Nynaeve will be damned if she lets THAT AES SEDAI teach her anything
This is actually part of why I would have her teach Nynaeve- I would have Moiraine be a real, massive asshole of a teacher- to bring Nynaeve into a state where she CAN channel, of course, but Nynaeve wouldn’t care about that. I never thought that the level of hate Nynaeve had for her felt organic, and having Moiraine try and teach her through her block would be a great way to make her anger toward Moiraine feel a lot more organic. And that way Nynaeve has a realistic handle on the power like Egwene does in book 2, letting them both grow massively in their ability quickly.
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Lord of Chaos, 100%. AMoL is a close second. 10 years ago, I would have said that Crossroads of Twilight was my least favorite, but I thoroughly enjoyed it in my last reread.
I was fascinated with the Aiel when I first read the books, so The Shadow Rising and The Fires of Heaven were 1a and 1b for me. On my last re-read I really liked The Path of Daggers and Winter’s Heart the best. On this re-read I am now on WH, and I still love it, but who knows? Maybe this time through Knife of Dreams will leapfrog to the top (it’s already up there as it is), and eventually Sanderson’s style will click and I’ll like one of the final three books best when it’s all said and done.
I dunno, I grew up with the books, and as I get older I identify with the story and RJ’s style in different ways. He was a master at depicted the subtle nuances of character growth so well, and with his limited 3rd person perspective I find myself in the shoes of each main PoV character and those shoes don’t always fit the same, lol.
Just yesterday I read the chapter where Rand first sees the steam engine prototype in action, while debriefing Dobraine at his academy in Cairhein. So much was packed into such a otherwise mellow scene. I love these books so much :)
