Arrogance is at the root of all the evil that’s ever been and ever will be here on Earth. I appreciate your opinion, but only as much as anyone else’s who haven’t truly considered non-violence and are speaking purely out of their countless assumptions and Everest sized self-assurances.

“Many pacifists, I felt, failed to see this. All too many had an unwarranted optimism concerning man and leaned unconsciously toward self-righteousness. After reading Niebuhr, I tried to arrive at a realistic pacifism. In other words, I came to see the pacifist position not as sinless but as the lesser evil in the circumstances. I do not claim to be free from the moral dilemmas that the Christian non-pacifist confronts, but I am convinced that the church cannot be silent while mankind faces the threat of nuclear annihilation.” - MLK, https://lemmy.world/post/44984978

the first is in failing to understand the class nature of the oppression, such that it is treated as “black people versus white people” when in reality it is “working class versus billionaire ruling class”

It’s white people versus black people in the context of the civil rights movement.

The second error is in thinking there even is a non violent path in the first place, as the root of the problem is Capitalism, it has no conscious or empathy, and will sooner kill us all then give up it’s power over us.

But most of the people that make up capitalism do. And nonviolent direct action isn’t dependent on its opponent having a conscience or capable of empathy. The fact that so much of today revolves around money and making the most of it is beneficial to the nonviolent path because that creates avenues to resist through where or how we spend our money, or flat out ceasing to participate in xyz market altogether. Like Gandhi did with salt or King did with the smaller businesses of the cities they would target. It’s far from perfect but far more effective than people (like you, your loved ones, or even your children or children’s children) dying in droves just to accomplish something that potentially could’ve been accomplished without the loss of a single soul. The more fortunate and therefore the blind don’t see this as a big deal because their lack of knowledge of the misfortune of losing someone close to them or of the experience of being in the thick of it themselves because of hate and violence, and the naive convincing their contemporaries that hate and violence is the only legitimate path.

Ultimately, regardless of what metaphysical beliefs one may have, nobodies “God” is going to come down and save us, we must save ourselves, and for that we must have solidarity, work together

King would completely agree with you; he rejected the bodily supernatural resurrection of Jesus, the supernatural and miracles within the Bible, and even the dogma of Pauline Christianity, though he still quotes and considers him plenty. King believed in God in the same way people like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Albert Einstein did. That it’s something completely beyond a humans comprehension and ability. Ironically, “scripture” and Jesus when he references this verse in Matt 5:33 when he warns of the woes of taking oaths, would also agree:

“Thus said Jehovah: The heavens [are] My throne, And the earth My footstool, Where [is] this — the house that ye build for Me? And where [is] this — the place — My rest?” - Isaiah 66:1

And I found out today that all the girls he did this with were 18 and over. So the label of pedophile doesn’t even make sense to begin with.

You’re right it’s more than likely AI.

deleted by creator

There’s zero evidence to support that claim and the girls themselves even said nothing happened. The value and potential of 2 + 2 remains the same no matter whose lips it came from; knowledge is just that: knowledge, no matter its source and no matter what we’ve rendered it ever since it’s been revealed and labeled. Besides, I agree with MLK and Gandhi:

“In the final analysis, God does not judge us by the separate incidents or the separate mistakes that we make, but by the total bent of our lives. In the final analysis, God knows that his children are weak and they are frail. In the final analysis, what God requires is that your heart is right.” - MLK

“Let the readers know that the vehicle, not the great principle, is at fault… I know that I have not in me as yet that triple purity, in spite of constant ceaseless striving for it. That is why the world’s praise fails to move me, indeed it very often stings me. To conquer the subtle passions seems to me to be harder far than the physical conquest of the world by the force of arms.” - Gandhi

It’s a painting I found on the Internet. Thanks.

Hmm. Interesting. Based on what you’re saying here I can’t help but humbly point you towards my more allegorical, philosophical interpretation of the story of the Garden of Eden: https://lemmy.world/post/44870805

I’d be very interested in your thoughts on it if you’re interested.

I agree, well said. Most people can work and make money, but most people can’t utilize their imagination to make something like the nuclear bomb, for example, or the theory of relativity.

I think our imaginations govern over our capacity for inner thoughts and even empathy; people with hyperphatasia tend to be significantly more compassionate in contrast. It also governs over things like fear, anxiety, and depression. My siblings would always make fun of me for being so scared of horror movies and it used to bother me, until I found out something similar would happen to Gandhi as a boy but it was regarding images of demons and the like from religious books of his time. He would suffer from “night terrors” as a result of it. It led me to understand that there’s nothing wrong with me, and I’m not necessarily a “chicken,” I just have a really big imagination and unfortunately, people who don’t couldn’t ever possibly completely understand. Leading to their arrogant assumptions to take over and boom, you’re just a “baby.” Ugh.

Very well said! I’m going to be checking out that book you referenced, thanks for that. Consider my community if you’re looking for more: https://lemmy.world/c/TolstoysSchoolofLove

I’m not saying that’s the case to begin with. Tolstoy in particular has a lot of stigma surrounding him due to a lot of his philosophy consisting so much of Christianity.

You think I could write this well? Thanks, it’s flattering that people find his writing and mine even remotely comparable.

I never said math isn’t subjective, but as I stated in my post, we’ve always been able to find degrees of objectivity within the sea of subjectivity that lies within our knowledge of anything.

I’m afraid the world is more subjective than you feared.

Please consider reading before commenting as this comment doesn’t make any sense and only serves as evidence that you didn’t bother reading before you did so. Thanks.

That would still make it infallible even if we’re the ones who designed it. But in my opinion, we didn’t design it, we simply revealed it by our unique ability to give life to the knowledge of math here on Earth.

And what you said about morality being an intersubjective phenomenon is essentially what I said already, but in a way that’s more difficult for the most amount of people to understand.

But what determines what one feels as right? It’s wildly subjective so therefore we would need something to dial it in, so to speak; something we can all gather around and consider the most accurate way in deciding what is right or wrong within the veritable ocean that is our unique capacity and ability for morality. This is where the Golden Rule comes in, as its laid the foundation for western laws for some time now and only continues to do so. What better foundation for laws to be built upon then this simple precept? It’s far superior then some King or aristocracy deciding what is right or wrong based purely on their opinion and authority.

Why does it depend on morality not being evolutionarily driven?

My point is, when the world is drowning in such people

Are you saying the world is presently drowning in such people, or if it were to be drowning in such people?

the problem is hardly that no-one has spread “the great principle” loudly or far-enough.

It’s hands down the biggest problem; knowledge needs to be gained so therefore, someone needs to be willing to teach it. Once upon a time the value of selflessness, love, and it’s logic was no where near as assimilated within the hearts of men until people like Socrates or Jesus inspired others to even consider rising above what we would otherwise be more inherently drawn to if not for the knowledge of their influence: hate and selfishness.

My mother, her mother, my step-mother, mother-in-law and my wife’s aunts aren’t “exceptionally bad saints”, they are performing a role society has inculcated in people for generations. Even my wife seems to think self-care stops at hygeine, going to the gym and not letting her job get in the way of family events, and I had to beg her for years on the latter.

Idk, obviously I can’t say for sure but I’m getting the impression you may be over exaggerating due to your obvious bias.

When you couldn’t even “grasp” the content of my first comment

I could grasp it just fine, but I wasn’t clear on it as you write and explain things in a way that didn’t make it easy to understand initially, so I wanted to make sure I knew exactly what you were talking about first before giving a response.

I do things the “saints” in my live are afraid to do, both for safety and “what will people think of me?” reasons, like pick-up hitch-hikers, give money, food(upon request) and free rides to pan-handlers

Ah, so it’s ego that clouds your judgement. How do you know for a fact these people in particular you’re referring to, who don’t represent all the good hearted people everywhere as a whole, don’t do anything like those you listed? Based on what evidence? Could arrogance and hate be leading you your assumptions to become fact without genuinely knowing for sure?

its that they deserve better

Who deserves better?

never said altruism was bad, or that the people I’ve described are “the problem”, but YOU are presumably not one of them.

My post isn’t about altruism at all. I’m sorry you got that impression. And the people you’re referring to are the farthest thing from the epidemic you’re dressing it up as.

I never said altruism was bad

I agree. But you definitely heavily implied it.

Au contraire, yours is a message they love to listen-to, so wouldn’t it be nice if you could sprinkle in a word about self-care and treating one’s-self on occassion?

Absolutely not. They get enough of that from the hypocrisy [the acting] of their contemporaries so it’s a miracle they’re even willing to be selfless to its extremes to begin with. Besides, to what degree are these people just really depressed? And you’re not capable of seeing it due to your contempt for them and hate for the perspective I’m putting down. I’m not saying this for a fact, I’d obviously have no idea, just a suggestion. I would say however that in order to most efficiently love others, one must love themselves; the more one loves themself, the more effectively and more willing they are to love others. That said, I agree with the ancient Greeks: “Nothing too much (in excess)” - the second of three maxims chosen to be inscribed into the entrance of the temple of Apollo where the Oracle of Delphi resided in Ancient Greece.

… but no, let’s go six comments-deep and spend dozens of paragraphs refuting anyone who does mention those things as if that person were preaching the word of Xenu or, shudders, prosperity gospel.

Well to be fair the first two was me trying to make clear what you were initially trying to get across. And I’ll go as many comments as you need, friend. It sounds frustrating and idk what it’s like to have a family that’s apparently selfless to the point where it becomes a problem. I’d agree with you on that by the way, altruism can go sour provided people who haven’t been educated on the topic of selflessness get a hold of it. Or maybe these people are simply capable of seeing something you can’t due to their experiences in life. Idk, that’s what led me to the edge of selflessness myself, gaining the knowledge of the experience of the hate, evil, and selfishness that still flourishes throughout the world. Once you get a good taste of it for yourself it’s tough to look away from the value and potential of the only cure: love and selflessness.

And don’t forget Hinduism, Stoicism, Jainism, and Taoism; and I’m sure plenty others.

I don’t agree with the woman part. I think that’s just evidence of man’s imperfect hands getting a hold of these influences — of a heaven (an afterlife) and a God of some kind. Like the wildly unnecessary incest in Genesis 19:30 for example, that’s only there because the Hebrews wanted to invent an origin story for their enemies — that they were born from incest.

Moral-anxiety & moral-learning are more of mothering than of male persuits, like hunting/killing.

I disagree considering it would’ve been the males duty and responsibility to keep the family/tribe safe from threats of both humans and predators.

The “grace” that we “fell” from

Are you quoting the story? Because words and concepts like grace, the fall, and even sin aren’t anywhere to found within it.

“Saints” aren’t people that drop everything and rely on the hard work of others to sustain them. I’m sorry to hear you have a bad experience with a handful of people that take pacifism and non-violence and apply this black and white kind of perspective on them. That is, to be a pacifist one must never, under any circumstances, ever use violence. Or to be selfless to its extremes one must forgo all their possessions and expect their contemporaries to pick up after them; to sustain them.

One would only need to explain to these people that in a world where it’s either sink or swim, but we choose to swim together to some degree via things like socialism because we realize swimming individually only leaves us vulnerable and ultimately, swimming together to ease the burden for everyone as a whole is simply more efficient because that way no one drowns or is left behind due to inabilities both physically and mentally that some people are simply born with or inherit from the world’s hands getting a hold of them via trauma brought on from war or even social interactions.

So don’t blame the great principle just because imperfect people ever since don’t fully understand it and become confused by people of the past and present that lead people to think it needs to be either or — violence or non-violence; selflessness to its extremes with zero room for selfishness, and that there’s apparently no in between.

I think I see what you’re saying. Do you have personal experience with this, if you don’t mind me asking?